CM Punk; WWE Has Me Hooked Again (2012 Official Pro Wrestling Thread)

[brettac1]

The rest of this show (aside from Brodus) has been just terrible. Hopefully that pays off, at least.

[And That]

I wouldn't have believed you if you told me after last WrestleMania that The Miz would be jobbing out to R-Truth a week before the Royal Rumble. Perhaps Miz did something to piss someone off in Titan Tower... I can't imagine even WWE creative can't see that this leg of Miz' push went far, far off the rails quite awhile ago.

 

R-Truth needs to go away. Ron Killings is not a particularly gifted wrestler and he's brutal on the stick.

 

I think the Jericho stuff is hilarious and really pretty novel. I was surprised to hear him speak tonight, though. Thought they would have saved that for the Rumble or afterward. Looking forward to his program with Punk (assuming that's where this is headed).

 

Cena needs to stay away from making sinister faces.

 

My favorite part about tonight's Raw was right after Ryder was sent through the stage by Kane, you could hear someone in the crowd do the "Woo woo woo, you know it!"

[Invader3K]

I only caught some of the show, but I have to admit I was hoping Laurinaitis would somehow hit Punk with a surprise Ace Crusher.

[MillerParkSouth]

I'm guessing since they made a point to emphasize that Ziggler had pinned Punk 3 (now 4) times in the last few weeks that there's no chance Ziggler takes the belt at RR. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if Jericho interferes in that match and Punk drops the title and feuds with him though. Also kind of curious as to why they seem to be burying Ryder with all of this Kane ridiculousness now. Not that I was ever a huge Ryder fan, but it seemed like they were gearing him up for a pretty decent push with the US title and Cena pairing and just as quickly he's dropped the title and will seemingly be out for a while with a 'broken' back.

[brettac1]

I would imagine this is a heel turn for Ryder. Then we'll get a Cena/Ryder feud... oh, goodie! That whole segment (or two, I guess) with Cena/Kane/Ryder/Eve was possibly the worst-acted bit I have ever seen. It just dragged on and on and on, and then Cena tops it off with the angry face. They literally wasted about 1/3 of the show on an angle that has no steam. And then it ends with a "broken back"!

 

I thought the Jericho talking made sense, since they have a PPV to sell. I would have liked if he wouldn't have talked again, but I can at least understand why they did it.

 

I definitely agree with Toby on R-Truth. Terrible.

[PrinceEatMeat]

That whole Cena/Ryder/Kane thing was just terrible. The angry face he made was absolutely horrible. He really can't be a heel if that's the best he can do, lol. Still loving the Jericho stuff. I honestly think Miz is entering the Rumble at #1 for a reason. He may not win, but he'll put on a good showing. I don't think he's getting buried by any means. It was very odd for him to job clean to Truth, but I'll wait to see where this goes before I decide it was a bad idea. Loved the Punk/Laurinaits stuff too as usual. The GTS at the end was outstanding.

[brettac1]

The silly thing is that they have been doing this build for Miz/Truth for a few weeks now, and then they have the match on Raw and have Truth beat him clean. I would think they would have wanted to pay it off on PPV, but judging from the lack of reaction from the crowd, I'm guessing no one really cared anyhow. I know I didn't.

 

I pretty much have the same beef with the Punk/Laurinitis stuff. That seemed like something they should do on PPV. Now, you have HHH sticking his nose in on a feud that could be pretty hot. I wish he would go away and figure out how to develop some new stars.

[jerichoholicninja]

You guys are giving WWE creative way too much credit to think that they should do things that make sense. They (or Vince) has the attention span of a 2 year old.

[Raw Biz]

You guys are giving WWE creative way too much credit to think that they should do things that make sense. They (or Vince) has the attention span of a 2 year old.

It's not that they do, it's that they think the fan does. I was reading somewhere a few months ago that WWE is shortening their feuds to only like a couple of months (in some cases weeks) instead of the long 6+ month stuff because they think that's what fans want. They claimed that with the internet, new technologies, an "I want it now" attitude, etc., fans wouldn't be invested in long feuds. And I think that's just stupid thinking. To me, that's the same stupid reasoning that TV execs use to cancel shows that don't perform well right off the bat. They don't understand that most of the time, people need time to actually grow to care about something. It's just how things work naturally. The more time you invest in something, the more you care about it (usually). It takes time to develop, chemistry, see what works and what doesn't, etc. Unfortunately, all Creative cares about is short-term payoff and $$$. Sadly, until Vince is dead or incapacitated to where he can't control the company anymore, I don't see things changing.

[brettac1]

I don't get why they can't just do some good matches mixed in with stuff that forwards the storylines. Instead of giving away PPV-caliber matches on Raw or Smackdown, let the mid-carders shine on the weekly TV shows in 7-10 minute matches to get them established and have the characters that are involved in the big PPV main event storylines cut promos, etc. I want longer story arcs. I think a lot of fans would prefer that, and it makes the pay-off that much better.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I agree, I loved the long feuds they used to have. Made me really get interested in the storylines. Not sure why Vince thinks fans dislike longer feuds. If it's between the right guys, long feuds are tremendous. Such as this Punk/Laurinaitis feud. This should last as long as the McMahon/Austin feud, but it won'y Chances are they'll kill it by firing Laurinaitis. Won't necessarily be next week when HHH is there, but I'm sure it'll happen. I agree that some feuds have run their course after a few months, but top feuds should usually last longer than that. The Miz and R-Truth feud could've been good too, but it seems like that has been killed prematurely as well. There might be a reason for that, such as they have something bigger for The Miz, but jobbing him to Truth doesn't doesn't help with that.

[brettac1]

Anyone else see the rumors of Jericho/Taker and Punk/HHH at Mania?

[PrinceEatMeat]

Nope, I've seen Taker/HHH and Jericho/Punk all along. HHH already cut a promo after TLC basically as a precursor to another match with Taker. It could happen I guess though. With HHH getting involved with the Punk/JL storyline coming up here. Not sure how that makes much sense though. I'd much rather see a Jericho/Punk match. Taker/HHH is kind of lame, but Taker in any match will be pretty lame at this point. He's in no shape to go anymore. It would be a waste of Jericho in my opinion. HHH wanting to steal the spotlight by wrestling Punk wouldn't surprise me though. Although I guess the same goes if he wrestles Taker, so he wins either way. HHH winning the Rumble would be out of left field, and surprise people.

[PrinceEatMeat]

No matter which way they go, I could definitely see HHH turning heel on Monday. Would make sense whether he faces Punk or Taker. Maybe they'll go with another version of the Corporation, with Chris Jericho, Stephanie, HHH, and JL. Something like that. I don't know. Now I'm kind of intrigued by all of the possibilities there are.

[brettac1]

http://wrestlechat.net/re...to-wrestlemania-28-card/

 

I just don't want HHH barging in. They need to make young stars, and it would be great if one of Punk or Ziggler came out of Mania carrying the ball. I'm all about having the full-time wrestlers pushed. It sucks when you see the old timers come in and step on their toes. When HHH sees a guy struggling to get over as a superstar, he should remember how much he sucked when he was champ for the first time, and how Foley had to make him. If they are going to use Foley to put Ziggler over strong at Mania, I'm cool with that, because Foley will get the job done.

 

As much as I think HHH/Taker is lame as well, at least it's two lame guys and no consequence aside from the streak on the line. I would hope HHH realized how bad he looked in the match with Nash.

[PrinceEatMeat]

This is classic HHH pushing his way into a main event match at Mania. Really lame. I'm sick of it happening. I'd rather see Punk/Jericho or even Punk/Ziggler. Then I'd rather see Taker face a younger guy too. I just don't see what they'll come up with to make this happen if that's what they wanna do. I just think something fresh will be more compelling than seeing HHH wrestle Punk again. Same goes with the Taker match. I'd rather see something new.

[brettac1]

They just fall back on the fact that once upon a time (with the right guy) HHH could draw. The thing is, it takes some guys a while to start to draw and to make fans care enough about seeing them win or get beat. When they hotshot the title back and forth and stuff, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of having guys on top that don't draw. Then Vince/HHH decide they have to bring old guys back to pop a rating or buyrate. It's WCW-esque, but it's really just something that seemingly happened with any booker in history that also was a wrestler or had a kid that was, be it Dusty Rhodes, Vern Gagne, Kevin Nash, Hogan, Eddie Graham, etc. They figure if no one else is drawing, at least they will keep it in the family and push the people they trust to the top. Vince's solution to any problem is to add more McMahon's to the mix.

[patrickgpe]

Anyone else see the rumors of Jericho/Taker and Punk/HHH at Mania?

i have been hearing the opposite, taker/hhh #3 and punk/jericho

[PrinceEatMeat]

Anyone else see the rumors of Jericho/Taker and Punk/HHH at Mania?

i have been hearing the opposite, taker/hhh #3 and punk/jericho

They are now bouncing around the opposite because they feel too many people are expecting the matches you just mentioned. I'm expecting they'll stick with the original plan though. Just makes a lot more sense.

[brwrsfan]

I love how HHH basically never wrestles any more, yet somehow will just thrust himself into the main event at WM. He's had what, one match in the last 3-4 months? That atrocious sledge hammer thing against Kevin Nash, then basically disappeared again. Yet somehow, the WWE feels that people will want to see him in the main event. It's just silly. People wanted to see him when he was in DX, but his time has passed. He's just simply not the draw that he used to be. Maybe they'll turn him heel and that will spark some interest, but otherwise I'm just tired of seeing him at this point.

 

Even moreso of the Undertaker, who virtually never wrestles, can't carry a much at this point and was just horrible at WM last year. Plus, it's not like they're going to have him lose anyway. I wish they would both just sorta go away.

[patrickgpe]

I love how HHH basically never wrestles any more, yet somehow will just thrust himself into the main event at WM. He's had what, one match in the last 3-4 months? That atrocious sledge hammer thing against Kevin Nash, then basically disappeared again. Yet somehow, the WWE feels that people will want to see him in the main event. It's just silly. People wanted to see him when he was in DX, but his time has passed. He's just simply not the draw that he used to be. Maybe they'll turn him heel and that will spark some interest, but otherwise I'm just tired of seeing him at this point.

 

Even moreso of the Undertaker, who virtually never wrestles, can't carry a much at this point and was just horrible at WM last year. Plus, it's not like they're going to have him lose anyway. I wish they would both just sorta go away.

undertaker sells ppv's though. Although the last match was not the greatest and we know the outcome, it is still the only time during the year that you can see him. He may be a shell of his former self, but i enjoy the WM match every year for nostalgic purposes.

 

Triple H is in the VKM mode who used to fight once or twice a year too, so i don't really have a problem with that either.

[brwrsfan]

If HHH came back and didn't steal the main event, that would be fine. But how is it helping the business at all? WM is their biggest PPV of the year, and I'm sure it's the most bought/watched of all of them as well. That is the time to let younger guys shine, not have HHH come back for one of his 2 matches that year and be in the main event. In my opinion.

 

Same with with Taker, I like him and find him pretty cool, but does he need to be in the main event?

[brettac1]

I love how HHH basically never wrestles any more, yet somehow will just thrust himself into the main event at WM. He's had what, one match in the last 3-4 months? That atrocious sledge hammer thing against Kevin Nash, then basically disappeared again. Yet somehow, the WWE feels that people will want to see him in the main event. It's just silly. People wanted to see him when he was in DX, but his time has passed. He's just simply not the draw that he used to be. Maybe they'll turn him heel and that will spark some interest, but otherwise I'm just tired of seeing him at this point.

 

Even moreso of the Undertaker, who virtually never wrestles, can't carry a much at this point and was just horrible at WM last year. Plus, it's not like they're going to have him lose anyway. I wish they would both just sorta go away.

It's because WWE is HHH himself in this situation. His wife is the head of creative. I don't really have a problem with him wrestling, but if he comes in and beats a young guy and cuts them off at the knees, that is the big problem. He's certainly not the kind of guy that is about the business like a Foley and would put a young promising guy over and make him a star, at least in my opinion. It's not like he was a superior worker in his prime, and then they'd be asking a guy like Punk to really carry him to a decent match at this point.

 

As far as Taker, I'm fine with him being a special attraction that just wrestles at WM. He's pretty much a part of what makes it WM. They won't be booking him to come in and wrestle a young guy, so I have no problem. I think if it's HHH/Taker again, it will be an uglier version than last year, which was basically high spot/rest/high spot. So, even though his stuff isn't personally the kind of wrestling I like to watch, he typically has good psychology in his matches. He tells a good story.

[brettac1]

If HHH came back and didn't steal the main event, that would be fine. But how is it helping the business at all? WM is their biggest PPV of the year, and I'm sure it's the most bought/watched of all of them as well. That is the time to let younger guys shine, not have HHH come back for one of his 2 matches that year and be in the main event. In my opinion.

 

Same with with Taker, I like him and find him pretty cool, but does he need to be in the main event?

Exactly. That's why the full-time guys have to win. They have to try to draw TV ratings, sell other PPVs (since the network has been pushed way back), sell house show tickets, sell merch, etc. and the only way to do that is to have the young guys that go on the tours and do all the TV and PPV's go over and make them stars. That's one issue I have with this WM already if they do Jericho vs Punk. You already have a predictable main event, a predictable Undertaker match, and then you would have a predictable WWE title match since all of the older guys are not going to be sticking around. I really don't see Jericho sticking around much past Mania before he goes to do his hair metal stuff. It only makes sense to make the young guys look good when the most eyes are on them.

[patrickgpe]

take this for what its worth

 

http://www.sescoops.com/w...-the-royal-rumble-match/