CM Punk; WWE Has Me Hooked Again (2012 Official Pro Wrestling Thread)

[radman12484]

BROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

That is all.

[jerichoholicninja]

Yup.

 

I have only "marked out" twice in my life. The first was Jericho's first WWE return and tonight. Everything was done to perfection and the crowd was awesome, best crowd in years. Dare I say, Brock's return outpopped The Rock's?

[thablingster]

This "Yes! Yes! Yes!" business is dangerously close to becoming the new "What?"

 

I really didn't watch when Brock was around, so it was interesting to see him get such a pop.

[BradWI]

Another part time nostalgia act claiming a main event spot. Who needs new stars...

 

They end one era last night, and instead of starting a new one, they just re-hash another old one.

 

Sure everyone is excited now, but long term this is bad for the business.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Basically Vince realized that Rock, HHH, Taker, and HBK are gonna be off TV now, so he panicked and brought back Lesnar immediately. I'm personally glad to see him back, but I agree that long-term it doesn't help business. New stars need to start being pushed. Also, I love all the "Yes! Yes! Yes!" chants. Good stuff.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Another thing though about tonight. The crowd there was absolutely fantastic. I haven't seen a crowd that pumped for Raw in a long, long time. It was great. They popped big time for Brock too. That's one of the biggest return pops I've ever heard. Speaking of Lesnar though, I heard his deal goes through WM 29. And it requires at least 2 appearances a month, with a total of 30-35. And that doesn't include the road to WM next year. There's also options for more appearances if mutually agreed upon. So he should be around quite a bit, which will be nice.

[ELCABALLO45]

I think a reason why Wrestling won't get to be as big as it once was is because of the IWC and the spoiling of returns and everything. Everyone in the building knew Brock was showing up and it took away from the surprise again. However, I still got excited seeing Brock out there. He has zero mic skills but the dude can Wrestle.

 

Its hilarious that Cena is a super good guy and he gets boo'd and Bryan who is trying to be a bad guy gets cheered.

[ELCABALLO45]

I hate the Cena character. Count me in as glad he lost.

 

It doesn't make Cena look any worse or any better that he lost. Rock is a multi-time World Champion, Hall of Famer. He's not a "celebrity".

 

He's a celebrity, he just happens to be really good at wrestling.

[ELCABALLO45]

Also, how terrible was the announcing during the Lord Tensai match?

 

"We believe he is a former WWE Superstar"

 

Crowd chants "A-Train" and yet they never mention who he was or anything.

[patrickgpe]

overall i thought it was a good raw, but i thought that was strange too about the A-train entrance.

 

Also i don't know if the WWE leaked Lesnar to get higher ratings or if its just a product of the times we are in, but it was completely ruined when the crowd was chanting we want Lesnar before he came out.

[jerichoholicninja]

I think the crowd chanting Lesnar made it better. I just loved watching Cena squirm around trying to find a way to brush it off. I really liked the one crowd shot right after Brock came out where there were 3 guys in orange shirts who totally no sold his entrance. You can tell one guy even asked the other guys who Brock was.

 

Whoever said it was right about the IWC ruining wrestling, but it's not spoilers. It's the comments here about rehashing old stars, not making news ones, etc.They're pushing the young guys and they are starting to get over but none of them are going to draw like Rock, Undertaker, HHH, or Brock will. As a fan I don't care who it is, I just want to be entertained and the new generation just isn't doing it for me yet. If you could just stop analyzing it and enjoy it, it would seem to suck so much.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Everyone pretty much knew Lesnar was coming back when he was spotted in Miami over the weekend. I knew he'd be on Raw once he didn't show up at WrestleMania. What they needed to do was hide him better, but he walks around with a big entourage, so it's kind of hard to do. People saw him, so that caused some people to do some digging. They found out he was talking to WWE, and then they found out he signed a contract. Wasn't much WWE could do to hide him at that point anyway, so they posted a picture of him on their twitter to get ratings most likely. Might as well since everyone knew he was coming.

[Crew2323]

I thought the crowd last night was absolutely awesome. They made Raw so much better, and I already thought it was pretty good anyways. It will be interesting to see if the "YES!" chants will catch on or not. The who show was one of the most entertaining I've seen in a long time.

[brettac1]

Real time thoughts on Raw after being so "electrified" by Mania that I decided to DVR it and watch old CM Punk stuff from ROH instead of watch the show live...

 

- So it's a triple threat US Title match? Or a handicap match? Are they finally seperating Ziggler from Swaggs?

 

- If you blow up two minutes into a match, you don't "still got it".

 

- HE ALREADY CUT THIS PROMO ONCE.

 

- Rock's new job: Help Cena. The whole build to Mania did nothing, apparently, to get people back on Cena's side. Granted, it is Miami.

 

- I really hate chants. Seriously? "JHC" gets chanted?

 

- This feels loooooong. Is it like 15 minutes already? And none of it has been noteworthy to this point.

 

- Ah, so the belt is going back on Cena. GREAT.

 

- If he does become champion, people should shut up about TNA being the place where old guys get the strap.

 

- So, "once in a lifetime", huh? I hate the WWE sometimes.

 

- If they split these two, I would be all for a Ziggler babyface run, I think. A Jericho feud to put him over going out the door, perhaps.

 

- Ziggler/Bryan would be fantastic, as well. Ziggler/Cody. Ziggler/anyone because he is the best worker in the company.

 

- Oh, Brodus has a shirt.

 

- Why can't Swagger learn to bump like that so Ziggler doesn't look like the jobber?

 

- Did they plant the seeds for a face turn/split there, or not? Seemed pointless.

 

- Tensai, baby!

 

- I thought that was the Shockmaster helmet at first.

 

- There are totally going to be "Albert" chants, right?

 

- Remember when Alex Riley sort of got a push? I barely do, but I think it happened.

 

- Hakushi was awesome back in the day. Face tats are great.

 

- The fans should learn from Zack Ryder's situation that if you chant for a guy Vince doesn't want you to, that guy is getting buried. Save Daniel Bryan!

 

- Von Erich claw FTW?

 

- The empty arena promo was so lame - and so wrong. If a match is really great, I don't even remember first place sometimes - just that it was great.

 

- I don't care that much if you have the champion wrestle on TV, but if it's going to be a title match, can you at least make it the main event?

 

- That being said, I am all about Mark Henry.

 

- If Cole just dropped the heel gimmick one week with no explanation, that would be great.

 

- Henry shouting at his opponent = gold.

 

- "I OWN YOU, BOY!"

 

- I am marking out for him yelling at Punk. As much as I love high workrate, I have a soft spot for a well-done monster gimmick.

 

- Is this crowd at an ROH show or a WWE show?

 

- Good TV match at the point of the commercial break.

 

- This is one of the best matches I have ever seen Henry in. Punk's doing a great job with him.

 

- The most annoying thing about Cole is when he calls everything "vintage (insert wrestler here)".

 

- I, for one, hope this becomes a feud.

 

- Is Lesnar a "natural disaster"? F-5, amirite?

 

- It wasn't a classic match at Mania. It was like three stars.

 

- I was really hoping this was over and Jericho would just leave again. The match wasn't that good, and especially because of the "how's your father" garbage.

 

- This is all Botchamania stuff. The bottle broke in Jericho's hand, after he slipped and fell before. Hilarious. This feud in a nutshell: botched.

 

- No one cares about Sheamus. He's just lame.

 

- Sweet. Ricardo.

 

- And Vince says "You want Daniel Bryan? Tune into Superstars on WWE.com!"

 

- Josh Mathews has awful hair.

 

- I hate white boots.

 

- I'm just guessing, but I bet there was hardly ANY chatter on "WWE Social" wondering what Cena would say.

 

- Big Show looks hungover.

 

- Cody Rhodes: The New Dolph Ziggler.

 

- Great. Poor Zack is going to trend.

 

- Eve is doing pretty great lately, though. It's great that she has some personality to her character now.

 

- I'm Miz-erable.

 

- Ryder's sneer means he's serious now, bro?

 

- Cena walking means the same, right?

 

- As much as he gets booed, there are still lots and lots of those new shirts in the crowd. That's why he'll never turn heel.

 

- Cena going even further babyface almost heels him, though. It's kind of funny.

 

- If he was turning heel, there would be no better way to do it than curbstomp The Rock after a handshake and show of respect in his hometown.

 

- Please be a heel, Brock.

 

- I would say that settles that. Excellent.

 

- That pretty much made up for a weak show.

[brettac1]

As far as the YES chants, I don't think they're necessarily good, unless Bryan is in the ring. It means the fans don't care about what's actually happening on the show and they want to be the show themselves. I think that hurts the show. It's self-indulgent.

[jerichoholicninja]

Real time thoughts on Raw after being so "electrified" by Mania that I decided to DVR it and watch old CM Punk stuff from ROH instead of watch the show live...

 

- So it's a triple threat US Title match? Or a handicap match? Are they finally seperating Ziggler from Swaggs?

 

- If you blow up two minutes into a match, you don't "still got it".

 

- HE ALREADY CUT THIS PROMO ONCE.

 

- Rock's new job: Help Cena. The whole build to Mania did nothing, apparently, to get people back on Cena's side. Granted, it is Miami.

 

- I really hate chants. Seriously? "JHC" gets chanted?

 

- This feels loooooong. Is it like 15 minutes already? And none of it has been noteworthy to this point.

 

- Ah, so the belt is going back on Cena. GREAT.

 

- If he does become champion, people should shut up about TNA being the place where old guys get the strap.

 

- So, "once in a lifetime", huh? I hate the WWE sometimes.

 

- If they split these two, I would be all for a Ziggler babyface run, I think. A Jericho feud to put him over going out the door, perhaps.

 

- Ziggler/Bryan would be fantastic, as well. Ziggler/Cody. Ziggler/anyone because he is the best worker in the company.

 

- Oh, Brodus has a shirt.

 

- Why can't Swagger learn to bump like that so Ziggler doesn't look like the jobber?

 

- Did they plant the seeds for a face turn/split there, or not? Seemed pointless.

 

- Tensai, baby!

 

- I thought that was the Shockmaster helmet at first.

 

- There are totally going to be "Albert" chants, right?

 

- Remember when Alex Riley sort of got a push? I barely do, but I think it happened.

 

- Hakushi was awesome back in the day. Face tats are great.

 

- The fans should learn from Zack Ryder's situation that if you chant for a guy Vince doesn't want you to, that guy is getting buried. Save Daniel Bryan!

 

- Von Erich claw FTW?

 

- The empty arena promo was so lame - and so wrong. If a match is really great, I don't even remember first place sometimes - just that it was great.

 

- I don't care that much if you have the champion wrestle on TV, but if it's going to be a title match, can you at least make it the main event?

 

- That being said, I am all about Mark Henry.

 

- If Cole just dropped the heel gimmick one week with no explanation, that would be great.

 

- Henry shouting at his opponent = gold.

 

- "I OWN YOU, BOY!"

 

- I am marking out for him yelling at Punk. As much as I love high workrate, I have a soft spot for a well-done monster gimmick.

 

- Is this crowd at an ROH show or a WWE show?

 

- Good TV match at the point of the commercial break.

 

- This is one of the best matches I have ever seen Henry in. Punk's doing a great job with him.

 

- The most annoying thing about Cole is when he calls everything "vintage (insert wrestler here)".

 

- I, for one, hope this becomes a feud.

 

- Is Lesnar a "natural disaster"? F-5, amirite?

 

- It wasn't a classic match at Mania. It was like three stars.

 

- I was really hoping this was over and Jericho would just leave again. The match wasn't that good, and especially because of the "how's your father" garbage.

 

- This is all Botchamania stuff. The bottle broke in Jericho's hand, after he slipped and fell before. Hilarious. This feud in a nutshell: botched.

 

- No one cares about Sheamus. He's just lame.

 

- Sweet. Ricardo.

 

- And Vince says "You want Daniel Bryan? Tune into Superstars on WWE.com!"

 

- Josh Mathews has awful hair.

 

- I hate white boots.

 

- I'm just guessing, but I bet there was hardly ANY chatter on "WWE Social" wondering what Cena would say.

 

- Big Show looks hungover.

 

- Cody Rhodes: The New Dolph Ziggler.

 

- Great. Poor Zack is going to trend.

 

- Eve is doing pretty great lately, though. It's great that she has some personality to her character now.

 

- I'm Miz-erable.

 

- Ryder's sneer means he's serious now, bro?

 

- Cena walking means the same, right?

 

- As much as he gets booed, there are still lots and lots of those new shirts in the crowd. That's why he'll never turn heel.

 

- Cena going even further babyface almost heels him, though. It's kind of funny.

 

- If he was turning heel, there would be no better way to do it than curbstomp The Rock after a handshake and show of respect in his hometown.

 

- Please be a heel, Brock.

 

- I would say that settles that. Excellent.

 

- That pretty much made up for a weak show.

 

This is exactly what I mean about the IWC ruining everything. Stop trying to over-analyze everything and just enjoy it.

[PKBadger]

Wow.

 

All I could think of while reading that:

 

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc45/snesfreak/neogaf/south-park-stan-marsh-poop-cafeteria.jpg

[brettac1]

There aren't that many parts of the show I find all that enjoyable since I started watching it again. It's probably time I just quit watching it altogether, or at least WWE. On a given Impact, I probably find as much stuff that I like as I do on Raw, and they have guys that I really love watching like Aries. The Ring of Honor show is probably my favorite one nowadays, especially because they have nice clean and crisp booking with Cornette there.

 

At the same time, I watch Raw because I want to like it, and because there are a lot of guys that I think have a lot of potential if given the chance. I don't think anyone here who advocates younger guys getting pushed thinks any of them is going to be Austin or Rock. The business is extremely cold right now, so that won't happen with anyone - Rock himself has proven that (ratings last night were lower than the Raw after the Rumble, even). Austin probably would draw, but he's a far, far bigger star than Rock ever was. You can still be great and not draw - look at all the people who think Shawn Michaels was the greatest ever. He couldn't draw a lick. Jericho sucked whenever put in any position to try to draw, as well. The current crop of young guys at least have to be given a chance to fail. What does WWE have to lose with business how it is now? They have all of these younger guys down in FCW that people rave about (Moxley will be on the main roster very soon by the looks of it), but they'll probably just come up to the main roster and be considered too small and never get the ball. All that being said, I won't complain about Brock coming back, since he's going to wrestle more than once by the looks of it, even if he'll only be there for a year. I'm not going to just shut up and enjoy whatever they put on, though. I like to over-analyze it, like how people over-analyze any other TV show. That stuff is where the fun is in the WWE show. It's not like it's in the wrestling.

[radman12484]

I wanna see the young talent get pushed as much as the next guy who knows anything about wrestling. The problem is though, no one is gonna see them getting pushed if no one is watching. Ratings have been going south because the product has been so bad over the last couple months, that I don't blame Vince for trying to get grab people's attention. Bringing back The Rock and Brock Lesnar. Lesnar was on the front page of Yahoo this morning when I woke up. You don't get attention that way by debuting a new star. This is why I can see you bring him back to feud with guys that don't need that push. If you need to put the belt on him for a couple months, then let it be.

 

I overall liked RAW last night. Triple Threat match w/ Brodus Clay at the end might be showing signs of new feuds. Punk/Henry match was pretty good.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I agree radman, gotta start by getting people to watch the show. Then worry about pushing new guys. Or better yet use the guys who draw ratings to get people over. Cena didn't really need to be put over by Rock as much as some people think he did. Guys that could use the bump are guys like Ziggler and Rhodes. Have a big name put them over to really get them to the top. Foley is a guy always willing to do it, and I think Rock and Austin would as well. Rock put over Lesnar back in 2002 when he was an up and coming star, so clearly he's willing to do it. Austin has always said he'd come back for the right match too. It's always been rumored to be Punk, which would be good too. Maybe it would get him over the edge and finally to the star level where he actually draws ratings. He's not there yet.

[radman12484]

Well WWE kind of sparked or hinted a feud that maybe in the works soon with Dean Ambrose and Mick Foley. If you are gonna make an impact with a future main event guy, why not bring him in to beat on a legend to get him over.

 

[PrinceEatMeat]

That would be pretty sweet. I hope it happens.

[brettac1]

They had Moxley/Ambrose win a dark match last night over Big Zeke, so that would probably be a good indicator he's coming up soon.

[TracyThom]

I got goosebumps from the pop Brock received when his music hit. Amazing. It reminded me of the pop Hulk Hogan received at Wrestlemania 21 when he saved Eugene from Hassan and Daivari.

 

As far as WWE pushing new stars, they have to learn to create them properly. The four seasons of NXT have not created any new stars. Daniel Bryan is finally over with the crowd. He didn't get over because of his past with Japan or ROH. He didn't get over because of his feud with the Miz. He got over due to a silly catchphrase and gimmick. Hey, whatever works. Chavo Guerrero Jr. got over riding a stick pony, Norman Smiley danced the Big Wiggle, Scotty 2 Hotty did the worm, and Perry Saturn had Moppy.

 

I hope they run with the Mick Foley/Dean Ambrose angle. That's really good stuff.

[brettac1]

I was happy to see Brock. He should be a welcome addition for the next year, especially if he works 4-5 PPV's and the occasional Raw (but not wrestling for free). He's the biggest draw in PPV nowadays, though I don't think there will be near the crossover of MMA fans buying WWE shows as there was the other way around.

 

The potential with him is interesting. Maybe they build to he and Taker next year, or will it be Rock? It would be an interesting move to put the belt on Lesnar and have that be Rock's opponent next year. Since Laurinitis said that Punk has to worry about a "natural disaster", I would think that means he and Lesnar will work together in time (or I was reading too much into it, but I don't think that was coincidence). Brock could win and drop the belt to Rock at Mania on his way out. Then have Rock vacate the title and hold a tournament. Those are almost always a good way to establish new guys.