Yuniesky Betancourt: What value does he bring to the team? (part 2)

[logan82]

Even if Betancourt plays well over the rest of this season there is no way he makes up for the pile of suck he has been so far.

[jjkoestler]

Everyone would gladly eat their "Yuni is terrible" words if he rakes the rest of the season. I take it you are not one of the "haters." Its nice to see that members of Yuni's family are posting on BF.net.

[DougJones43]

Gotta love when people bury their head in the sand during 300 at-bats of awfulness, and then point at his last 20 at-bats to "prove all the haters wrong."

 

I really hope that Yuni's near benching has at least made him give some serious consideration to changing his plate approach. It doesn't look like he's going to be replaced anytime soon unfortunately, so hopefully we can get a few hot streaks out of him the rest of the season.

[HiAndTight]

Looks like Yuni is turning things around. Might make the difference for helping the team run away with the division. Would love to see all you haters end up having to give him props as the summer goes on! Keep it up Yuni B!

I would love nothing more than to be wrong about Betancourt, to walk around Miller Park with a shirt that in big, bright letters says, "I am a moron who was 100 pct wrong about Yuinesky Betancourt; please feel free to throw things at me, and/or kick me in the rear to help me see the errors of my ways."

 

The problem with that? He'd have to has a Bonds on roids-esque 2nd half(heck, even a Bonds not on Roids) AND suddenly learn how to be able to take more than 2 steps to get to a GB before that shirt would be justified.

 

It's great he's getting some big hits, and I'm enjoying his recent string of non-err.."suckitude," but overall(Since this IS a 162 game season) he's still absolutely terrible and probably the worst everyday player in major league baseball...with some competition from the guy immediately to his right in the field.

[HiAndTight]

Understood asnd your point is well taken about Spring Training.

 

Currently Gomez's OBP is about 50 points higher than his AVG though. Assuming he managed to get to that .260 mark, a mark not totally out of the realm given he hit .258 in 2008 and .247 in 2010, with a .310 OBP would be more than tolerable given his glove.

 

Sometimes it clicks for certain guys (see Jose Bautista). I was hoping Carlos may have had a little of that magic in him as well in 2011.

When you're 6'4, 215 of solid muscle, have near world class speed, the ability to hit the ball as hard as just about anyone, a cannon for an arm, and you play defense just a shade below Andruw Jones circa 1997-2007, there is always "hope," you're going to figure it out and all the sudden come from nowhere to become a very good player.

 

Even more so when you're 24 years old.

I wouldn't put any money on it, I just would never be surprised to see it happen.

 

But until we can get him on some ADD medicine so that he doesn't have the demeanor of your Labrador when you walk in the door, for every at bat, you're still going to have a player who's value is limited to his defense and base running ability.

 

Which is nothing to scoff at, but it's also not the "greatness," that he is capable of.

[FVBrewerFan]

The truth is somewhere in the middle. We're simply seeing him get back to his career norm, which isn't great but definitely an improvement over the first half of the year. If he hits close to this the rest of the year, I'll be fine with it. He is far from the worst starting position player in MLB, just look at the starting line-up for virtually every team the brewers play, and there's one or two guys with horrific numbers. Look no further than Yuni's counterpart in this series. Better defensive SS, sure, but Yuni is a better hitter hands down.

 

When he's the 8th best hitter in the line-up, they're fine. Problem is, he's the 7th best hitter. McGehee is a much bigger problem.

[HiAndTight]

The truth is somewhere in the middle. We're simply seeing him get back to his career norm, which isn't great but definitely an improvement over the first half of the year. If he hits close to this the rest of the year, I'll be fine with it. He is far from the worst starting position player in MLB, just look at the starting line-up for virtually every team the brewers play, and there's one or two guys with horrific numbers. Look no further than Yuni's counterpart in this series. Better defensive SS, sure, but Yuni is a better hitter hands down.

 

When he's the 8th best hitter in the line-up, they're fine. Problem is, he's the 7th best hitter. McGehee is a much bigger problem.

I really don't think the truth is somewhere in the middle, and I do disagree that he's far from the worst starting player in the big leagues.

 

First of all his "career norm," is absolutely terrible.

 

The last three years, he's got a .249/.275 line. He hits for a little power, but that is still just god awful. Now, if he was a serviceable defender, you could live with that. The problem? He's not. He's not only NOT serviceable, he's absolutely awful.

 

And lets talk about Brandon Crawford. He's got a .199/.275 line this year, so he's not good either. BUT, he IS getting on base better than Betancourt, and he's just soooo much better defensively.

Crawford in about a third the time has a .2 WAR. Betancourt has a -.9 WAR.

 

 

So yeah, I agree, if you JUST look at batting averages, there are guys on almost every team we play who are worse.

 

If you look at the whole picture, defense, OBP, etc....then no, I don't think there is a single player in baseball worse than Betancourt. And you mention McGehee, he's been bad, but at LEAST with him there is some hope he improves based on his career. Betancourt's been a god-awful player for his entire career and has battled for the distinction of worst in baseball for the last 3.

[The Truth]

When you're 6'4, 215 of solid muscle, have near world class speed, the ability to hit the ball as hard as just about anyone, a cannon for an arm, and you play defense just a shade below Andruw Jones circa 1997-2007, there is always "hope," you're going to figure it out and all the sudden come from nowhere to become a very good player.

 

Even more so when you're 24 years old.

I wouldn't put any money on it, I just would never be surprised to see it happen.

 

But until we can get him on some ADD medicine so that he doesn't have the demeanor of your Labrador when you walk in the door, for every at bat, you're still going to have a player who's value is limited to his defense and base running ability.

.820 + OPS vs LHP in 2011

[HiAndTight]

When you're 6'4, 215 of solid muscle, have near world class speed, the ability to hit the ball as hard as just about anyone, a cannon for an arm, and you play defense just a shade below Andruw Jones circa 1997-2007, there is always "hope," you're going to figure it out and all the sudden come from nowhere to become a very good player.

 

Even more so when you're 24 years old.

I wouldn't put any money on it, I just would never be surprised to see it happen.

 

But until we can get him on some ADD medicine so that he doesn't have the demeanor of your Labrador when you walk in the door, for every at bat, you're still going to have a player who's value is limited to his defense and base running ability.

.820 + OPS vs LHP in 2011

I see a .800 OPS vs lefties in 2011, but a .269/.288 with an .800 OPS in 78 AB's.

 

 

Not all that encouraging.

 

I'm hoping he does figure it out, but his OPS in a small number of AB's doesn't give me a whole lotta confidence moving forward.

[JohnBriggs12]

Looks like Yuni is turning things around. Might make the difference for helping the team run away with the division. Would love to see all you haters end up having to give him props as the summer goes on! Keep it up Yuni B!

The haters won't give him props if he hits .400 the rest of the way and is playoff MVP. They've never been objective. Ever hear the Ted Thompson haters give him props when the Packers won the Super Bowl?

 

[Bombers]

I have posted it in another thread but I don't think Doug is going to do anything at SS. He needs to make a move at 3rd. If you take away the month of May, Yuni has done exactly what you want out of a 7th hitter, which is hit for a good average. April was .267, may was near .178, June .284, and in July he is .300. Way to turn the hitting around Yuni!!!!

 

At this rate we are bound to pick up your 2012 http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif. - (blue)

[Bombers]

Gotta love when people bury their head in the sand during 300 at-bats of awfulness, and then point at his last 20 at-bats to "prove all the haters wrong."

 

I really hope that Yuni's near benching has at least made him give some serious consideration to changing his plate approach. It doesn't look like he's going to be replaced anytime soon unfortunately, so hopefully we can get a few hot streaks out of him the rest of the season.

 

 

As my previous post shows, go take a look at his month by month splits. He has been doing well for almost 200 straight at bats not 20.

[endaround]

Gotta love when people bury their head in the sand during 300 at-bats of awfulness, and then point at his last 20 at-bats to "prove all the haters wrong."

 

I really hope that Yuni's near benching has at least made him give some serious consideration to changing his plate approach. It doesn't look like he's going to be replaced anytime soon unfortunately, so hopefully we can get a few hot streaks out of him the rest of the season.

 

 

As my previous post shows, go take a look at his month by month splits. He has been doing well for almost 200 straight at bats not 20.

No its been pretty much all July. wOBA by month: .279, .203, .299, .336

[DougJones43]

No its been pretty much all July. wOBA by month: .279, .203, .299, .336

And don't forget July included the all-star break and several games in which Yuni was benched. And truthfully it hasn't even been the whole month that he's been hot. Prior to the all-star break (which began July 11th), his July line was .206/.222/.265 for a .487 OPS.

 

So his hot streak has been barely over a week. A don't forget that he has been playing poor defense the entire season.

 

Don't get me wrong, if he's going to play I'm pulling for him to be productive. But it's kind of ridiculous that people are now talking about Betancourt batting .400 the rest of the year and everyone eating crow. I get it that the Yuni B defenders are desperate for something to grasp at, but let's not make it out to be more than it really is. Try to be realistic about what to expect moving forward, based on what the guy has done over the past 3 years.

[joepepsi]

YuniB did hit .284 during the arbitrary time period of June. Had a .409 slugging during that period too, (and a .281 obp--how does that happen?)

 

Now he's been hot again for the last week or so.

 

But as his obp indicates, even during hot streaks he's still a swing at every pitch type hitter. Most players like that will occasionally go through hot streaks where he gets lucky and the ball falls between fielders. That happens for every player, even those named McGehee. It's what happens when he isn't lucky that makes the difference between a bad player and a good one. Good players are still able to contribute during slumps by drawing walks and playing good defense. Yuni can't do that.

[fondybrewfan]

I look at it this way. In April, June, and July Yuni has posted an OPS at or near .700; May was atrocious at .489

 

I think I would take a .700 OPS SS for 3 out of 4 months; although I think the hate for Yuni would die down a lot if he was at least mediocre in the field. It wouldn't help to take a walk or two either.

 

He is obviously not even an average SS but if we can catch lightning in a bottle and he can keep up a .700 OPS for the rest of the year that would be huge.

[brewtank34]

Don't look know, but YB (.252) is almost hitting better than Mr. Hart (.257). Hart is quickly becoming an issue with me.

[logan82]

I guess they are almost exactly the same hitter, except Hart takes walks and hits for power. Nothing big though.

[chadomac]

Exactly, logan. They're not even close.

[brewtank34]

All I was saying is that Hart is in a major slump right now, and YB is making him look bad.

 

Total Bases: YB: 123, Hart: 120

Slg: YB; .373, Hart .460

RISP: YB: .216, Hart:.203

LIP-RISP: YB: .176, Hart .118

OBP: .273 (horrendous), Hart: .343

 

Yes, I know that Hart is a way better asset to the team than YB, but Hart has been stinking up the joint in pressure situations where we are expecting his salary to justify his output.

[theavrock]

I don't buy that Yuni is making anyone look bad.

 

Total bases you can throw out because Yuni has 70 more AB's since Hart was out early in the season.

 

RISP and clutch stats are largely the victim of sample size and random variation that have been overhyped by the media. He has a .945 OPS with someone on 3rd and 2 outs. You can find just about anything when you dive down into anything.

 

Hart has been bad lately, but even over the last 28 days he has an OPS over .700. So in basically his worst month of the season, he has been better than Yuni's entire season.

[logan82]

So Hart in a major slump is still better than YunE-6.

[gregmag]

Looks like Yuni is turning things around. Might make the difference for helping the team run away with the division. Would love to see all you haters end up having to give him props as the summer goes on! Keep it up Yuni B!

The haters won't give him props if he hits .400 the rest of the way and is playoff MVP. They've never been objective. Ever hear the Ted Thompson haters give him props when the Packers won the Super Bowl?

Gosh, it must be great to have so much insight and wisdom that you can just sweep away the diverse arguments of numerous people with the simple crack that they aren't objective. That way you never have to confront anyone whose view diverges from yours; you can just puff up your chest, assert whatever you want, and maintain serene confidence that you're right about everything. That is some nice work if you can get it.

 

I'll jump on board with others who have said that I would love to see Yuni turn it around. I have nothing against the man, and he plays for my team, so I'm rooting for him. I do have something against his numbers, which -- every way I slice them -- tell me that he has hurt this team tremendously this year. Right now he's on a bit of a hot streak, but everybody gets on a bit of a hot streak. Yes, he has shown decent pop for a shortstop. But as Bill James once said about Charlie Moore in right field, "So he can throw. Everybody does *something* well." If Yuni can do multiple things reasonably well over the remainder of this season, then he'll help this team, and I'll applaud him. Right now? Replacing him with anything down to filler is still the smart move, and I hope DM keeps his eye on the big picture.

 

 

[davemakovec]

I would love to see YuniB become a positive to this team. It's going to take more than a couple of good weeks, though. It'll take a longer stretch of offensive contribution to make up for his atrocious defense.

 

I will say, though, that YuniB being half of a replacement-caliber player is better than none. Keep hitting the first pitch you see, Yuni.

[umphrey]

Some time in the past week or so Yuniesky passed McGehee in WAR, -0.3 and -0.6 respectively. Almost at replacement level Yuni, keep it up!