Yuniesky Betancourt: What value does he bring to the team? (part 2)

[CheezWizHed]

I take it that you missed the 'Rick Manning era'.

 

Unfortunately, Paul Molitor didn't... >http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

 

(Although, In fairness to Manning, there was little he could do to NOT win the game and NOT make the last out so Molitor would get one more shot)

[Bnowell4evr]

I'm wondering why they omitted Clint Barmes from the article? Is it the whole trading in the same division thing? Aside from that he seems like the best realistic option along with Furcal

[Warning Track Power]

I'm wondering why they omitted Clint Barmes from the article? Is it the whole trading in the same division thing? Aside from that he seems like the best realistic option along with Furcal

Speaking of Barmes. Second story talks about his defense. Definitely would be worth bringing in over YuBet.

 

 

[TooLiveBrew]

Could Eric Farris be worse at SS than the options currently on the roster?

I know AndThat doesn't think Farris has the arm to play short regularly. I haven't seen any other reports on Farris's arm aside from AndThat's.

[greeg35]

Is his arm worse than Betancourt's range? Hard to imagine.

I'm sure he wouldn't light the world on fire with his bat either considering his minor league stats; but he couldn't be worse than our current guys...could he?

[The Truth]

Is his arm worse than Betancourt's range? Hard to imagine.

I'm sure he wouldn't light the world on fire with his bat either considering his minor league stats; but he couldn't be worse than our current guys...could he?

yes unfortunately, Farris could be worse than Betancourt, or just as bad. Same with Wilson or Counsell. There is no "in house" solution. They are going to have to make a trade if they want an upgrade

 

Personally, I don't think Doug Melvin recognizes the importance of OBP and won't make that trade. He probably thinks Yuni B "isn't that bad" and "likes his Pop" and thinks "he's been hitting better in the last month".

 

Melvin will probably make a trade for bullpen help and that is it...

[TooLiveBrew]

Personally, I don't think Doug Melvin recognizes the importance of OBP and won't make that trade. He probably thinks Yuni B "isn't that bad" and "likes his Pop" and thinks "he's been hitting better in the last month".

 

In the Transactions forum, markedman posted a Tweet from ESPN's Jim Bowden:

Brewers continue their chase of Furcal and Hardy which confirms that Betancourt's .262 OPB and lack of range is still concerning to Melvin

So I would assume Melvin actually isn't content with the sucktitude of Betancourt.

[bucksman4]

Personally, I don't think Doug Melvin recognizes the importance of OBP and won't make that trade. He probably thinks Yuni B "isn't that bad" and "likes his Pop" and thinks "he's been hitting better in the last month".

 

In the Transactions forum, markedman posted a Tweet from ESPN's Jim Bowden:

Brewers continue their chase of Furcal and Hardy which confirms that Betancourt's .262 OPB and lack of range is still concerning to Melvin

So I would assume Melvin actually isn't content with the sucktitude of Betancourt.

I'm more in line with the italic portion of the above. If Melvin truly was an OBP-driven guy, there is no way he would a) start the season thinking Gomez was his full-time CF, b) start the season with Betancourt as his full-time SS, and c) keep running McGehee out there at 3b everyday without finding a legitimate replacement for his low OBP.

[Invader3K]

Melvin didn't start the season thinking Gomez was a full time CF, which is why he traded for Morgan in spring training.

[bucksman4]

Melvin didn't start the season thinking Gomez was a full time CF, which is why he traded for Morgan in spring training.

1000% disagree, based on factual statements made on the day of the trade...as I recall. They perceived Morgan as nothing more than bench fodder.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/118738389.html

"Things can change during the season but Carlos is our center fielder," said Roenicke. "I think (the trade) adds to the depth on our bench.

[monty57]

"Things can change during the season but Carlos is our center fielder," said Roenicke. "I think (the trade) adds to the depth on our bench.

 

That was Roenicke, not Melvin. I'll agree that Roenicke seems clueless on many occasions, but I doubt Melvin would have traded for Morgan if he truly thought Gomez was the answer. Especially considering the fact that they benched Gomez last year. Yuni was part of the Greinke deal, and was probably forced on us. Add that we're on page 45 and still no one has come up with a valid option that was available at SS prior to the season, and I can't bag on Melvin too much for having Gomez and Yuni on the team to start the season.

 

Now, there is an obvious need to upgrade the SS position, and since we're in 1st place nearing trade deadline, I'd guess something will happen. I just hope it happens sooner rather than later.

[dlk9s]

Remember, management saw good things out of Gomez before the season started. That, combined with his high defensive value, made them feel good about him being the starting CF. In reality, it didn't take long for his ineptitude at the plate to relegate him to a platoon role (he's really the backup CF now) once Morgan was healthy.

 

I find it humorous that people think DM and RR are simply stupid and don't realize which players aren't performing well. The solution is typically not as simple as just going out and getting another guy.

[bucksman4]

Remember, management saw good things out of Gomez before the season started. That, combined with his high defensive value, made them feel good about him being the starting CF. In reality, it didn't take long for his ineptitude at the plate to relegate him to a platoon role (he's really the backup CF now) once Morgan was healthy.

 

I find it humorous that people think DM and RR are simply stupid and don't realize which players aren't performing well. The solution is typically not as simple as just going out and getting another guy.

Oh, I am sure they realize which guys are performing well and which are not. My point was going into the season they both thought Gomez would somehow miraculously turn into a higher OBP guy because his "approach" at the plate was so much better this Spring Training. They wore kid gloves with him and in some weird way seemed as though they owed the starting CF job to a career sub-.300 OBP guy who has never put it together but carried with him so much "promise."

Basically, Spring Training fooled them into thinking Gomez was somehow a changed man.

"Roenicke and GM Doug Melvin met with Gomez to tell him he was the starting center fielder despite the trade for Morgan." (From that same link I just posted).

[RobDeer 45]

A lot of that is just media talk. They got to give a guy confidence through the media. If they had complete confidence and were "fooled" they wouldn't have traded for Morgan.

[joepepsi]

A small market team often can't afford a star or even an average player at every position or role. I'm guessing Doug felt they could carry Gomez as the every day CF'er and live with his poor offense, while enjoying the excellent speed and defense he brought to the game. Hopefully he'd improve a bit with the bat.

 

But when he had to give up Alcides and agree to take YuniB in order to get Greinke it became clearer they'd need more production from CF.

[Warning Track Power]

A small market team often can't afford a star or even an average player at every position or role. I'm guessing Doug felt they could carry Gomez as the every day CF'er and live with his poor offense, while enjoying the excellent speed and defense he brought to the game. Hopefully he'd improve a bit with the bat.

 

But when he had to give up Alcides and agree to take YuniB in order to get Greinke it became clearer they'd need more production from CF.

Good point. If they were to upgrade the SS position now though with a JJ or Furcal, you could very easily live with Gomez's bat in the everyday lineup in the #8 hole. I know it won't happen with Nyjer here, but it is worth mentioning.

[bacon06]

I hear JJ Hardy is available. Can we trade Carlos Gomez to the Orioles for Hardy?

[davego]

Well, I suppose DM could offer that...

[Ennder]

Gomez is not a huge problem in CF, he is above replacement level even if he can't hit and doesn't seem to understand the game of baseball as much as my 10 year old. CF is a strength on the team if anything between Gomez and Morgan. The black holes are SS and the bullpen (and 3B if McGehee never improves I guess) and we already added to the bullpen, if we can add a SS we are really in business.

[Invader3K]

if we can add a SS we are really in business.

Yes, exactly. If you read between the lines with some recent articles and comments from Melvin, he is likely already aggressively working on this.

[rluzinski]

A lot of that is just media talk. They got to give a guy confidence through the media. If they had complete confidence and were "fooled" they wouldn't have traded for Morgan.

RR had Gomez batting 2nd for the first few months (and still does when he starts!). RR also reiterated on numerous occasions that Gomez really impressed him during spring training. I agree that you should always take public praise of a player by his manager with a grain of salt but in this case, RR "saw SOMETHING... and so did Dale!" He really believed that Gomez had magically turned into a competent hitter.

[Warning Track Power]

A lot of that is just media talk. They got to give a guy confidence through the media. If they had complete confidence and were "fooled" they wouldn't have traded for Morgan.

RR had Gomez batting 2nd for the first few months (and still does when he starts!). RR also reiterated on numerous occasions that Gomez really impressed him during spring training. I agree that you should always take public praise of a player by his manager with a grain of salt but in this case, RR "saw SOMETHING... and so did Dale!" He really believed that Gomez had magically turned into a competent hitter.

I fell into this trap as well. Gomez did look outstanding in spring and I thought it was at least possible for him to turn his raw talents into a becoming a .260/.320 hitter in 2011. I can't fault RR for this. I CAN fault him for continually batting Gomez 2nd though. Gomez should be hittting 8th whenever he starts.

 

[trwi7]

I fell into this trap as well. Gomez did look outstanding in spring and I thought it was at least possible for him to turn his raw talents into a becoming a .260/.320 hitter in 2011. I can't fault RR for this. I CAN fault him for continually batting Gomez 2nd though. Gomez should be hittting 8th whenever he starts.

He had 1 walk in 63 at bats.

 

I always refer to Major League II when it comes to spring training stats.

 

Rube Baker: Wow, Willie's really got some power.

Lou Brown: Off a guy who'll be bagging groceries in a couple of weeks.

 

Add to that games being played in Arizona and lots of hitters can look good no matter how crappy they are. Spring training stats in Arizona and facing junk minor league pitchers led to Erick Almonte and Jeremy Reed making the team out of spring training.

 

[Warning Track Power]

Understood asnd your point is well taken about Spring Training.

 

Currently Gomez's OBP is about 50 points higher than his AVG though. Assuming he managed to get to that .260 mark, a mark not totally out of the realm given he hit .258 in 2008 and .247 in 2010, with a .310 OBP would be more than tolerable given his glove.

 

Sometimes it clicks for certain guys (see Jose Bautista). I was hoping Carlos may have had a little of that magic in him as well in 2011.

[BrewCityUnit]

Looks like Yuni is turning things around. Might make the difference for helping the team run away with the division. Would love to see all you haters end up having to give him props as the summer goes on! Keep it up Yuni B!