Yuniesky Betancourt: What value does he bring to the team? (part 2)

[Funketown]

SoCal, thanks for posting that, I was about to do the same.

 

For those who are saying all playoff teams have bad players, this article sums it up pretty well. In the last 9 seasons (2002-2010), there have been 12 starters from playoff teams that have been below replacement level. That's 1.33 players per year.

 

In summation, good teams often have bad or below average players, but they very rarely have a Yuni starting.

[Funketown]

Betancourt's slash line is now .224/.247/.325. Here are the lowest OBP's in the league for qualified players for the last 5 years:

 

2010: .270 (Jose Lopez)

2009: .274 (Yuni B)

2008: .288 (Michael Bourn)

2007: .284 (Tony Pena Jr.)

2006: .259 (Angel Berroa)

 

For all of our sanity, can we please just release this guy and get on with a Counsell/Wilson platoon? I know I criticized the Wilson signing (at the time I thought he was one of the only guys worse than Yuni), but at this point I honestly think he's a significantly better overall player. That's not a compliment to Wilson; Yuni is having a historically awful season.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Random interesting fact I came along while researching how bad Yuni has been. He has the 5th worst OPS and 4th worst OBP of all MLB players that currently qualify for the batting title (3.1 PAs/game). First off, I was slightly surprised there are actually 3 regular players having worse years than him, and even more surprised to see one of those 3 guys is Dan Uggla, with a line of .177/.243/.325/.568. Yikes, I knew he was having a rough year, but that's awful.

[monty57]

I was playing ball with my five year old today, who is just learning how to swing a bat. He said he was Ryan Braun, but after he swung and missed at about five straight pitches, he said "I'm not Braun, I'm Betancourt... no hits."

 

So there you have it, even a five-year-old can tell Betancourt is terrible.

[jjgott]

Tangent but I did something similar when I was smaller right before the Packers got Favre. From family stories apparently I came in, gave a football to my grandpa and said "Let's play Packers...you throw me the ball and I'll fumble."

 

I agree with your assessment. We should call it the five-year-old test.

[fondybrewfan]

Yuni's last non-intentional walk was on May 22nd. Almost a month between walks is amazing

 

Also; despite an awful start by Alcides; his OPS is now 30+ points higher than Yuni.

 

In conclusion Yuni is bad

[RockCoCougars]

At this point, I'm willing to concede that Betancourt needs to be replaced. He's been in a slump for about 6 weeks. At the same time, I'm glad they dumped Escobar because he's a bad player as well. Hardy is absolutely tearing it up in Baltimore, so I'm not sure if he's going to be a realistic target.

[Invader3K]

The answer is to just start Wilson and Counsell and rarely use Betancourt. At least either of the former two have a chance to get on base. I'm really sick of Betancourt's "make an out as quickly as possible" approach at the plate.

[bucksman4]

You have to believe that Melvin/Ash are now aware that Betancourt is not a good baseball player and they will do everything possible to improve that position by the deadline. The problem is there are not many options out there (see Josh Wilson).

 

Melvin has not done as good of a job as of late finding diamond in the rough talent. The last player that comes to mind is McGehee.

 

Going into next year, the left side of the infield will be a focal point.

[monty57]

Zealous Wheeler is healthy again, and I know he played a little SS to start the AAA season this year. Is he a viable option once he's got some AAA reps in?

[DuWayne Steurer]

Zealous Wheeler is healthy again, and I know he played a little SS to start the AAA season this year. Is he a viable option once he's got some AAA reps in?

He's not exactly what one would call a slick fielder.

[monty57]

Zealous Wheeler is healthy again, and I know he played a little SS to start the AAA season this year. Is he a viable option once he's got some AAA reps in?

He's not exactly what one would call a slick fielder.

Yeah, I don't figure he is. Relative to our other options, is he a good enough fielder to fill out the SS spot until we can find someone else?

 

I don't know if this should be here or in the "Rumors/transactions" forum, but looking at teams in the bottom of the standings, here are some possible options: Hardy, Furcal (on DL through June w/ oblique) and Reyes have all been discussed. Florida has Emilio Bonifacio, who is still in pre-arby, but is blocked by Hanley Ramirez, so he's being used as a utility guy. He's making $425,000 withs a .716 OPS and .338 OBP. Jamey Carroll is a 37-year-old utility guy who's making $2.3MM with the Dodgers, posting a .751 OPS and .376 OBP. Career numbers .751 OPS and .357 OBP. He may be too old to play everyday, but seems to be able to play SS and hit and probably could be had cheap if we picked up his salary. Jason Bartlett of the Padres probably isn't an option with what we'd have to trade, as he signed a 2 yr contract w/ year 3 option this past offseason, but the Padres are another bottom-dweller that might look to shed payroll (he's signed to $4MM this year and $5.5MM next year with buyout of $1.5MM in 2013 - I don't know the 2013 salary if it isn't bought out).

 

That's about all I could come up with at first glance. I think the obvious move is to bench Yuni and start some sort of Wilson/Counsell platoon. If we can find someone else, then Yuni can be sent packing and no one in Brewers nation would shed a tear.

 

[PrinceEatMeat]

Here's some great quotes from Roenicke I just saw on the Brewers website about the Brewers thinking Betancourt would provide power.

"[it's] not the consistent power," manager Ron Roenicke said. "He's driven some balls pretty good to right-center, which I think he needs to do to get his average going."

"I think once Yuni starts getting a lot of base hits, where he's comfortable in what he's doing, I think the home runs will show up," he said.

 

Um, Ron. Yuni isn't going to get a lot of base hits. He has a hard enough time hitting the ball out of the infield, much less get multiple hits. He's never going to get going. He's incapable of hitting for average, much less power. How he hit 16 HR's last year is beyond me. He's a horrible player.

[reillymcshane]

I think it was Cleveland's old GM, Mark Shipiro, who said the first 1/3 of the season is to see what kind of team you have. the next third is to make adjustments. I think it's clear we need to make adjustments with Yuni - that is, get a replacement. I think the Dodgers are the most realistic - Carroll or Furcal are both free agents and the team is sinking. the key is what will they cost. I like Carroll, although he is not considered to be a great fielder. He probably isn't a full time guy - but he could team pretty well with Counsel.

 

Despite my desire to move now, I have a feeling that nothing will happen with Yuni until next month. Melvin is going to sit and wait it out, let some teams on the playoff fence (Baltimore, Dodgers, etc) fall out of the race, and be more willing to deal a guy. Plus he can see how Furcal comes back from injury.

 

I'd be happy cutting yuni now and letting Wilson and Counsel take the job. But it probably makes sense to have the replacement ready

before we cut him. Wilson looks awful swinging the bat at times (but he

did drive the ball pretty good once or twice).

[Invader3K]

You don't have to DFA Betancourt right now. Just let him ride the pine and go with a Counsell/Wilson platoon. Betancourt can start if one of the other guys just needs a day off, and be used sparingly as a pinch hitter in blow out situations. Then when a better option is available in a trade, DFA him once a deal gets done.

 

I personally think Rafael Furcal is the most realistic option of the big name potential shortstop acquisitions. The Dodgers are in a financial meltdown with MLB apparently nixing their deal with FOX. It seems like an MLB seizure of the franchise is imminent, and at that point they will probably approve deals to shed payroll in order to make the team more attractive to a potential buyer. Melvin will just have to make sure Furcal is healthy before making a trade.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Yeah, I think Melvin is just going to wait until close to the deadline to make a move. Has to see what all of his options are first. But for now, Roenicke should be smart enough to just platoon Counsell and Wilson at SS. Not sure how much longer Betancourt has to suck before he hits the bench.

[umphrey]

It's at the point where we probably get better if we just DFA Betancourt. Start Josh Wilson. If you aren't going to start Betancourt at least half the time I don't see any value he brings from the bench. The only thing he supposedly can do is hit home runs but since that has happened 3 times in 251 plate appearances this year, he isn't even a legitimate power pinch hitter. Replacement level would out perform avg, fielding, baserunning, obp, everything except maybe power.

[Bombers]

I just got an email from Brewers.com about a new article, it says: "Braun Still Leading All NL Vote-Getters. Fielder, Weeks, Betancourt & Lucroy each top-5 at their positions . Three-time All-Star OF Ryan Braun of the Brewers continues to lead the NL in voting for the All-Star Game, to be played on Tuesday, July 12th at Chase Field. Fellow Brewers, 1B Prince Fielder, 2B Rickie Weeks, SS Yuniesky Betancourt, and C Jonathan Lucroy trail in their position races, but all are within striking distance. "

 

 

What? How has Yuni B even recieved 1 vote, much less enough to place him into the top 5 of the NL? This is a tad frustrating and I sure hope Melvin doesn't look at this like, well Brewers fans are voting for him, so they must like em.

[Invader3K]

A lot of people just vote for all the guys on their favorite team. That is the only reason.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Yeah, all it shows is that Brewers fans vote a lot. Which is good, because we need to get Rickie in there.

[Thurston Fluff]

I think it was Cleveland's old GM, Mark Shipiro, who said the first 1/3 of the season is to see what kind of team you have. the next third is to make adjustments.

 

That's a pretty fair way to go. I advocate patience based off that basic concept. At this point he's been given time to show what he has. I don't think playing him some is a bad idea pending what Wilson gives us. If there is a clear cut advantage in production then play Wilson. If not Yuni has a shot, however slim it is, to get hot enough to be an add on for a trade. The fact that is the best we can hope for isn't good.

[Funketown]

What? How has Yuni B even recieved 1 vote, much less enough to place him into the top 5 of the NL? This is a tad frustrating and I sure hope Melvin doesn't look at this like, well Brewers fans are voting for him, so they must like em.

You know how sometimes Democrats (Republicans) vote for the weaker Republican (Democratic) candidate in the primary rather than choosing the best Democrat (Republican)?

 

Sawx fans will go a long way for home field advantage.

[monty57]

It's at the point where we probably get better if we just DFA Betancourt. Start Josh Wilson. If you aren't going to start Betancourt at least half the time I don't see any value he brings from the bench. The only thing he supposedly can do is hit home runs but since that has happened 3 times in 251 plate appearances this year, he isn't even a legitimate power pinch hitter. Replacement level would out perform avg, fielding, baserunning, obp, everything except maybe power.

While I agree that we could find a better bench player, the whole Yuni saga showcases how poor our system is when it comes to shortstops. If we cut Yuni and play Wilson/Counsell, then we are hoping that Wilson can hold out for the rest of the season. If he gets hurt, then we would be forced to play Counsell everyday, which his body likely wouldn't hold up to. Assuming Wheeler can't play an adequate SS, we don't have anyone at AAA who could step in and be better than Yuni. Yes, the mythical "replacement level" may be better than Yuni, but it doesn't mean we have any "replacement level" players in the system.

 

In other words, we're probably better off holding onto Yuni until we can find someone else who can play SS. In the best case scenario, we'd find someone who could play at the MLB level, and we could sneak Wilson to AAA. At this point, I'd be happy if we could find a decent AAA SS who could be insurance. We could then dump Yuni and bring up someone like Green who could help out at 3B and as a bench bat or Katin (if he's healthy) as a RH bat off the bench.

[chadomac]

Betancourt is currently 5th in the all-star voting at shortstop. How could this have possibly happened?

 

If I wasn't so lazy and the voting system wasn't so stupid (Being able to vote 25 times and going back in over and over again is just dumb to me), I would go and vote for someone other than Betancourt just so he doesn't start to think he isn't terrible.

[Thurston Fluff]

While I agree that we could find a better bench player, the whole Yuni saga showcases how poor our system is when it comes to shortstops.

 

When you trade your top two shortstops two years in a row it tends to shorten up the prospect list at the position.