The trade value of Prince Fielder (part 2)

[NievesNoNO]

I'm still wondering how you guys think we're going to make a playoff push in 2011.

 

Even if we have extra money to spend with all this garbage coming off the books, all our arby guys get a raise, diminishing that. All the money in the world, unless all thrown at one ace pitcher that somehow wants to sign with Milwaukee isn't going to bring any sort of decent rotation here.

 

But the key is how do you find a #2, #3, #4, and #5 starter that isn't garbage? I'd say Wolf and Bush if they pitch well are #5, maybe #4s at best. We're not going to go anywhere by signing guys, and I am pretty sure when Melvin does he just looks at ERA and doesn't look at any statistic further than that when trying to pair the pitcher with our awful defense.

 

Personally, we COULD sign Hart, but I would prefer not to. I fear him falling off the cliff statistically and effort-wise seconds after inking the dotted line.

I pretty much agree with you here. Although I doubt Melvin just looks at ERA, he wouldn't have his job right now if that was the extent of his scouting. To be fair, I believe he's tried to improve the staff with the monetary resources available. The problem is free agency is not a spot to build a staff/team for really any franchise, save for the Yankees. The Brewers will never be able to lure a true ace here in free agency. I want Fielder and Hart both gone by the deadline this year. Look, with Fielder and with Hart playing out of his mind we are still a losing team, so even if we could resign either of them what good have we done? Get what you can for them and move on.

 

Like some others, I don't think we need to bring back a team's MLB ready arm. If that's what's holding up a deal, then why not ask for quantity instead or readiness. Take multiple players with high ceilings from the middle/lower levels of some team's system. Keep the system stocked and shoot for 2012. We can't settle for marginal talent or worse, nothing, for these guys. I think with a little open-mindedness a deal can be had sooner than later. With Fielder, I just fail to see how holding him until the off season creates more opportunity to move him. His contract situation will be the same as now except with less of his service. Fine, the Sox don't want to trade their one stud pitching prospect then ask for Flowers, Viciedo, Mitchell, etc. Just turn him into some talent. Maybe if we stock up on more high upside position players in the system we can move them for some needed pitching in the off-season. You can deal prospects with anyone, but large contract impending free agents have a limited number of teams to work with. Just my two cents, but why limit your options by only accepting pitching in return.

 

 

 

 

[trwi7]

Reversal from yesterday: #WhiteSox trying to accelerate talks for Prince. Problem: #Brewers want SP, and view Hudson as only a 3 or 4. #MLB.

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19095804344

[1e Corbeau]

Per MLBTR:

The White Sox are "trying to accelerate" talks with the Brewers for Prince Fielder, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Unsurprisingly, Rosenthal says the problem is that the Brewers view Daniel Hudson as only a No. 3 or 4 type.

 

Just yesterday, Rosenthal tweeted that the Sox were not on Fielder due to financial concerns and the difficulty matching up. The market for Fielder appears to be picking up, as evidenced by Rosenthal's tweet today that the first baseman is generating more calls than Corey Hart. MLBTR provided a full profile of the Fielder market yesterday.

Love that DM is trying to push past Hudson as a #3/4, which, from memory, has been mentioned about Hudson. Toss in Viciedo and Beckham and we might *deal* with Hudson. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

Still, it does raise the issue that Prince is our best hope to get a #1/2 ceiling pitching prospect. I don't know that Kenny has one of those... Does he?

[NievesNoNO]

Per MLBTR:

The White Sox are "trying to accelerate" talks with the Brewers for Prince Fielder, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Unsurprisingly, Rosenthal says the problem is that the Brewers view Daniel Hudson as only a No. 3 or 4 type.

 

Just yesterday, Rosenthal tweeted that the Sox were not on Fielder due to financial concerns and the difficulty matching up. The market for Fielder appears to be picking up, as evidenced by Rosenthal's tweet today that the first baseman is generating more calls than Corey Hart. MLBTR provided a full profile of the Fielder market yesterday.

Love that DM is trying to push past Hudson as a #3/4, which, from memory, has been mentioned about Hudson. Toss in Viciedo and Beckham and we might *deal* with Hudson. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

Still, it does raise the issue that Prince is our best hope to get a #1/2 ceiling pitching prospect. I don't know that Kenny has one of those... Does he?

Excellent!!

[brewmann04]

Good on Doug Part we need at least a #1 arm and maybe a top prospect thrown in .

[Klements Bratwurst]

July 20th- White Sox not in on Fielder- Ken Rosenthal.
July 21st- White Sox trying to accelerate talks on Fielder- Ken Rosenthal
July 22nd- White Sox trade for Lance Berkman- Ken Rosenthal

This guy gets paid to do this? Wow!

[JohnBriggs12]

Hudson was hitting 95 with regularity the other night and mixed in 3 other pitches. He's got 364 K's in 310 minor league innings.

 

If that's a 3-4 type, then Bush and Wolf are 9-10 types.

 

Either Melvin must be looking at the pre-2008 draft scouting report, the same one that caused him to pass on Hudson 4 times that year, or he posturing to get a better player along with him. Frankly, I think Hudson as the primary return for Fielder isn't bad at all. Williams is the same guy that gave up Clayton Richard last year. There aren't too many GM's out there that so willingly surrender young pitching.

 

P.S. No way the Sox include Beckham. They'll take Parra and a reliever (Coffey or Villanueva) along with Fielder, and if the Brewers agree to take Teahen (who could be stopgap 1B for Brewers), they might agree to add Brent Morel, but forget Beckam.. Only problem with that scenario is Teahen is currently on the DL with a bad finger. They could acitvate him and then deal him but he's not expected back until early August.

[NievesNoNO]

JohnBriggs12[/b]]Hudson was hitting 95 with regularity the other night and mixed in 3 other pitches. He's got 364 K's in 310 minor league innings.

 

If that's a 3-4 type, then Bush and Wolf are 9-10 types.

 

Either Melvin must be looking at the pre-2008 draft scouting report, the same one that caused him to pass on Hudson 4 times that year, or he posturing to get a better player along with him. Frankly, I think Hudson as the primary return for Fielder isn't bad at all. Williams is the same guy that gave up Clayton Richard last year. There aren't too many GM's out there that so willingly surrender young pitching.

Agreed. Hudson would be a great return. Williams is an aggressive GM., but it has paid off recently. Potentially good for them and for us.

 

 

[chuckiehacks]

Frankly, I think Hudson as the primary return for Fielder isn't bad at all.

 

Completely agree. I don't think there's a deal out there that brings the Brewers a legit, potential #1 for Fielder. I think a trade of Hudson and Beckham / Viciedo looks good. Personally, I'd prefer Beckham.

[nate82]

Either Melvin must be looking at the pre-2008 draft scouting report, the same one that caused him to pass on Hudson 4 times that year, or he posturing to get a better player along with him. Frankly, I think Hudson as the primary return for Fielder isn't bad at all. Williams is the same guy that gave up Clayton Richard last year. There aren't too many GM's out there that so willingly surrender young pitching.

I believe that trade last year to the Padres has worked out for both teams. Though Jake is injured now so not so much now but still a good deal for the White Sox and the Padres.

[jerichoholicninja]

Was just reading on MLB Trade Rumors that a deal with the White Sox won't happen unless Gordan Beckham is included. I'm sure Gordan will be a good player, but we need pitching. Trading Fielder for Beckham would do nothing to address the weaknesses of the team. I hope that is all talk coming from Chicago and Doug knows better.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

Great news on Prince's market heating up. It was only a matter of time that teams got interested despite all the negative reports coming out recently of his worth.

[Invader3K]

Interesting to read about. If Melvin can somehow get Hudson and Beckham, it would be a tremendous coup. I don't think we'll get Beckham; but I think the Brewers might be able to get much more value than just Hudson and a questionable corner infield prospect.

[walleye]

Yesterday I posted that I thought Hudson would level out at a three. Two reasons (grated I had a small sample size of his work 2 starts and some film in the minors) His fastball is above average 93 -95 but straight as an arrow very little tail, break, rise just straight. 2nd From what I have seen so far is he pitches to too much of the plate catching the middle portion way to often for my liking. With that said hes very young and that can change as he grows but he worries me as I guy that just throws it across the plate and hit if you can, in the minors that works in the majors thats era around 4 in my opine. He would be a nice part of a trade I just do not see him as the center piece or any young white sox's pitcher for that matter.

[Invader3K]

Crazy idea...if the Brewers did acquire Beckham in a trade, could they then flip Weeks for a decent starting pitcher? I know he probably wouldn't bring a top prospect, but maybe a solid younger #3 type?

[BrewerAddiction]

Not sure how realistic it is, but is Beckham better suited for 2B or 3B? I for one would like to see the Brewers keep Weeks, and would hesitate to take another 2B, especially with Lawrie coming as well. Although, I suppose Lawrie could probably be a long-term answer at 1B or OF.

[colbyjack]

Was just reading on MLB Trade Rumors that a deal with the White Sox won't happen unless Gordan Beckham is included. I'm sure Gordan will be a good player, but we need pitching. Trading Fielder for Beckham would do nothing to address the weaknesses of the team.

 

I hope the Brewers aren't so narrow-minded with their need for pitching to disregard other potential upgrades on the team. If Fielder is dealt, the Brewers are suddenly going to be without one huge bat in their lineup, and they're going to have to find some kind of replacement in productivity from other positions. I would take the best players I could get, with an obvious preference towards pitching.

 

And I do think Beckham or some other high potential player needs to be included (I like Morel, but I question his overall potential). I agree with some that Hudson doesn't scream top of the order starter, and would seem to settle down more as a #3. Even if you believe he's a #2 starter, getting a potential, with an emphasis on potential, #2 starter for one of the best sluggers in the game as the centerpiece of any deal is a deal I would quickly pass on, unless the other pieces are intriguing enough to pull the trigger.

 

I think some people are anxious to see a trade just for the sake of it. If a good package of talent can't be had now, don't trade him.

[Invader3K]

Definitely. I'm not convinced Hudson and Vicideo are enough in return.

[giffted1]

I'm glad to see Beckham involved in some of these rumors. He'd make a much better centerpiece than Hudson, IMO. Getting the best value for Fielder should be Melvin's priority even if it means getting a young bat instead of a pitching prospect.

[ListachRides]

Beckham is the one player the Sox can offer who I feel confident will become an impact player, so I'm very happy that Melvin is asking for him.

 

I don't think Melvin is wrong to have some concerns about Hudson's ceiling. I remember reading scouting reports to that effect, and Hudson, while posting great strikeout numbers, also gave up a lot of home runs at AAA this year. That said, I agree that no team will give up a future #1 starter and would love for the Brewers to gain control of Hudson for the next 6 years.

 

I think a package with Hudson and 2-3 solid prospects but no Beckham is a bit short of what Prince is worth, but is far superior to two 2012 draft picks. If it comes to that, Melvin will have a tough decision to make. I'm not certain we'll do any better in the off-season.

[brewmann04]

So we come away with a #1 or #2 pitcher and lose Fielder sounds like a typical Melvin Move

[TooLiveBrew]

Even if you believe he's a #2 starter, getting a potential, with an emphasis on potential, #2 starter for one of the best sluggers in the game as the centerpiece of any deal is a deal I would quickly pass on, unless the other pieces are intriguing enough to pull the trigger.

 

I think when you include the caveat that the deal would be for less than a season-and-a-half of one of the best sluggers in the game, a #2/#3 type is a very acceptable centerpiece. If the Brewers can find someone to pay more than that at a deal's core, great.

 

 

Not sure how realistic it is, but is Beckham better suited for 2B or 3B? I for one would like to see the Brewers keep Weeks, and would hesitate to take another 2B, especially with Lawrie coming as well. Although, I suppose Lawrie could probably be a long-term answer at 1B or OF.

 

Beckham's bat is definitely better-suited for 2B, as would almost any player's. I think he could probably handle 2B fine, as I don't recall hearing as many questions about his defense as you hear about Lawrie's. I think Brett will be a corner OF for the big-league Brewers once he gets here, but if he actually improves on defense to the point where he can stick at 2B, I think you just pat yourself on the back for having the good problem of having to decide which top-talent young player to shop in trade talks. Or if Beckham can hit enough, he'll be a nice 3B option & obviously Lawrie's bat at 2B with average defense would be fantastic.

[Hate those Rodents]

Sergio Santos would be a nice guy to get in the deal. He's a rookie with a 1.88 era this year and more K's (32) than innings pitched (28). They have a great bullpen anyway so probably could give him up. We'd have him for five more years after this year too (and he'd be another guy to help us cheapen our bullpen and still have it remain solid so we can spend elsewhere).

[nate82]

So we come away with a #1 or #2 pitcher and lose Fielder sounds like a typical Melvin Move

And what magical team or trade is out there that gives the Brewers a return of an ace type pitcher. That deal is not out there at best Melvin is going to get a #1 or #2 pitcher and a every day player for Prince in a trade during this deadline. During the off season he could get more or he could get less a lot less or Melvin could just hold onto Prince and then nearly everyone complains that the Brewers only got two comp picks for Fielder and that is not even a guarantee that the Brewers will get that. A team like the Nationals or the Orioles could pick up Fielder and the Brewers would be stuck with a comp and a 2nd round pick for Fielder then since their 1st round pick would be protected.

 

I don't see why you could be complaining about a possible deal of Beckham and Hudson plus a few other mid-level prospects that is more than what you could expect in return for Fielder if the Brewers just let him walk with comp picks.

[jvrocksaz]

What if the Sox were to take Wolf to fill out their rotation? Would we then take a bit less for Fielder to get rid of his (Wolf's) contract? Just a thought...