The trade value of Prince Fielder (part 2)

[Rhett16]

If this is true, that Melvin thinks we are too close to being in contention this year to make deals, he needs to be shown the door and never allowed to have anything to do with the Brewers ever again. I hope this report is wrong, and that our GM really is not as big of an idiot as he appears right now.

[Sage]

If this is true, that Melvin thinks we are too close to being in contention this year to make deals, he needs to be shown the door and never allowed to have anything to do with the Brewers ever again. I hope this report is wrong, and that our GM really is not as big of an idiot as he appears right now.

I agree. Melvin needs to never be allowed to have anything to do with the Brewers ever again. However, I'm kind of happy that he's not going to be trading Fielder or Hart. I'd much rather that a GM who knows what he's doing handled our future with those trades than this idiot. We could actually have a GM that knows what he's doing in the offseason. Trust me, Melvin is as big an idiot as he appears right now.

[DannoMac21]

If that report is true, then all my faith in Melvin is gone.

The guy hasn't hired a competent manager, and is too stupid to realize we have one as our bench coach (Randolph). What's the point of keeping Macha around? Didn't Braun before the season say that Macha sat down with all the players before Spring Training and got to know them. It was the start of his 2nd season on the job! You do that before you take the field with the roster that you have to manage. Not to mention he's ruining players in your farm system (Gamel).

I'm absolutely puzzled as to what this team's thinking right now. Melvin IMO has made one good move as GM, the Sabathia trade. I mean really, he dishes out terrible contracts (offered Carlos Lee $100M, Bill Hall, Suppan, Wolf, Riske, Hoffman, Hawkins, just to name a few), makes bad trades (Ervin Santana and Gallardo could and should be our 1-2 right now), and just plainly doesn't know how to assemble a roster.

You can't just bandage your pitching rotation's wounds each and every year with corpses of vets. I'm jealous of teams like the Rays, Giants, Rangers for the ways they have managed their team (obviously the Rangers from just a BASEBALL standpoint).

I'm not saying to trade Fielder for a carton of Gatorades, I'm just saying that if he really thinks we're still in contention, then Wisconsin's Charter Association needs to re-open.

I don't get what his problem is with dealing for young talent, primarily pitching. It's super frustrating and that should be enough to show us that he's not as good of a GM as he all fooled us into thinking he was.

[igor67]

I want to expand on Xcellence's comment. The price in prospects for major leaguers seems to have gotten quite low, dare I say that major leaguers are undervalued? The problem I'm seeing is that the number of pitchers who would be here for a couple of years and make a difference has shrunken dramatically. Maybe it will continue into the offseason and Melvin can find a way to trade up on the starting pitching and defense fronts.

[pete]

If that report is true, then all my faith in Melvin is gone.

The guy hasn't hired a competent manager, and is too stupid to realize we have one as our bench coach (Randolph). What's the point of keeping Macha around? Not to mention he's ruining players in your farm system (Gamel).

I'm jealous of teams like the Rays, Giants, Rangers for the ways they have managed their team (obviously the Rangers from just a BASEBALL standpoint).

 

I can think of things to criticize Melvin about. The end product of a series of comments like the game whispers or telephone that everyone plays in grade school with bitter Keith Law at the end, is one I wouldn't get carried away with. If you're a Keith Law believer, he can't ruin Gamel as far-fetched as that idea is, because Gamel was always worthless.

 

Willie Randolph hasn't exactly sizzled as a manager and the fanbase and media in NY complained quite a bit about his competence. The Rays and Rangers have made their share of bad moves, but Sabean is in competition for most knucklehead moves. Part of having the success like the Rays have had is cratering your team and getting the #1 or #2 draft choice. That's what local radio bizzarro "Sparky" wants to do. Go for last place for 3 or 4 years and compete after that.

[Tennik]

The problem seems to be that pitching prospects are now valued over everything other than stud major league pitchers. The Brewers inability to develop young pitching, coupled with their ability to develop young hitters has hurt them because it is actually now the opposite of the market. The teams with young pitching (Rays, Rangers, Tigers) could go get just about any hitter they want if they're willing to give the pitching up. The opposite is not true however. The Brewers can not go get whatever pitcher they want if they give up young hitting. It's possible Fielder and Hart bring back a healthy return this winter, but Melvin has put himself in a position where he'll either need to take what's offered, or hold the two and let them walk as free agents. Melvin likes to portray himself as being "in the driver's seat" with these guys, but I don't see it. The closer we get to next July, the less leverage he has.

[Tennik]

On a side note, is anyone else having "Nationals envy"? These guys just keep making quality moves (see Capps for Ramos). I used to laugh at them, but now I can't help but think they may be serious contenders in the years to come.

[Invader3K]

On a side note, is anyone else having "Nationals envy"? These guys just keep making quality moves (see Capps for Ramos). I used to laugh at them, but now I can't help but think they may be serious contenders in the years to come.

Getting a new GM who seems to have a decent idea of a plan has helped them tremendously.

[paulmolitor4]

On a side note, is anyone else having "Nationals envy"? These guys just keep making quality moves (see Capps for Ramos). I used to laugh at them, but now I can't help but think they may be serious contenders in the years to come.

Getting a new GM who seems to have a decent idea of a plan has helped them tremendously.

You know what else helps? Sucking for two straight years and getting the top pick in the draft.

 

[Invader3K]

No doubt, but eve without drafting Strasburg and Harper, they've been making some other solid moves lately. They have a nice bullpen already and could afford to deal Capps for a catcher with upside. Not like Ivan is going to be around to be backstop forever.

[paulmolitor4]

No doubt, but eve without drafting Strasburg and Harper, they've been making some other solid moves lately. They have a nice bullpen already and could afford to deal Capps for a catcher with upside. Not like Ivan is going to be around to be backstop forever.

I agree they are headed in the right direction. Whereas, you look at the Brewers and there doesn't seem to be any direction. Unless treading water in a sea of mediocrity counts as a direction. Maybe there's some light at the end of the tunnel in a couple of years with some young pitching coming up, but it would be nice if Melvin would start making moves with that in mind. I just don't see the Brewers making a run next year with Gallardo+garbage for a starting rotation.

[Tennik]

No doubt, but eve without drafting Strasburg and Harper, they've been making some other solid moves lately. They have a nice bullpen already and could afford to deal Capps for a catcher with upside. Not like Ivan is going to be around to be backstop forever.

I agree they are headed in the right direction. Whereas, you look at the Brewers and there doesn't seem to be any direction. Unless treading water in a sea of mediocrity counts as a direction. Maybe there's some light at the end of the tunnel in a couple of years with some young pitching coming up, but it would be nice if Melvin would start making moves with that in mind. I just don't see the Brewers making a run next year with Gallardo+garbage for a starting rotation.

I can't help but feel like the plan is this:

1. Tread water with our current hitting stars the next year and 1/2 (2010-2011) in order to keep attendance numbers as steady as possible even though we know we can't truly compete for a championship.

2. Bring some pitching prospects up (Rivas/Jeffress) in 2012 in order to try to keep some interest.

3. Bank on our young pitching making us contenders again in 2013.

[GoudaBrew]

Joe Cowley (Sun Times) last 3 tweets:

 

Hold off on the Jackson trade folks, KW has something big cooking and if he gets it done Jackson trade is off.

If I had names I would report them. All I've been told is it's big. Also been told that the chance of Hudson starting tonight is almost zero

Jackson-Hudson deal is not off, it's just being delayed while KW tries to shock the world. Hudson for Jackson might still happen either way.

 

 

Kenny Williams loves to make trades. Just speculation on my part, but maybe Prince is his target?

[wibadgers23]

Shock the world? lol, well I guess it could be Prince since it was reported that he was taken off the market yesterday (thus shocking the world!)

[PilprinBuddha]

I'm guessing its Dunn

[1e Corbeau]

I'm wishfully thinking about Prince to CWS re-heating, too.

 

Cowley's most recent tweet:

Here's what I've just been told - "If [KW] pulls this off, the Sox will be considerably better by tonight.''

 

Jackson, to me, isn't a "considerably better" piece. Dunn likely is. Prince certainly is, but if it doesn't involve Beckham, whom KW has apparently told is not going anywhere, I hope it isn't Prince. Maybe Prince + McGehee + Bush for Beckham + Hudson/Jackson + Vicideo + more? That's bold, for sure. Also, MLBTR had a blurb in regards to Beckham being off the table, in which the Mariners were listed as very interested in him. Maybe flip Beckham for Pineda?

 

Pipe dreams, but fun to pass the time...

[Invader3K]

My guess is the ChiSox are going to get Dunn in a three team deal.

[JohnBriggs12]

I could see McGehee, Prince and Bush for Hudson, Viciedo, Teahen, and say Carlos Torres or a lower level pitching prospect. But I still doubt Beckham is involved.

[PilprinBuddha]

I think CWS can do a Prince deal that doesn't ionvolve Beckham...at least in my opinion. It just means that the second arm after Hudson has to be better. I'd take the 1b prospect, Hudson, and a high end minor league arm....or two.

 

I don't think Beckham is the ultimate esencial piece, but CWS have to kick in more and higher quality.

 

Saying that...I still think its Dunn.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Guarantee that the Jackson will be flipped for Dunn, or it will be a three-team deal. That's all it is.

[GoudaBrew]

I could see McGehee, Prince and Bush for Hudson, Viciedo, Teahen, and say Carlos Torres or a lower level pitching prospect. But I still doubt Beckham is involved.

I'd rather just keep McGehee and Teahen out of that trade, but it seems about right.

 

 

Cowley is on The Score right now:

"Something major from what I've been told"

He has no idea what players are involved though.

"I think the Jackson/Hudson trade still happens"

"I think its someone not on the radar. Not the usual suspects - Dunn, Berkman."

Cowley seems pretty clueless on what might be going on.

 

[Invader3K]

Pilprin, I think the problem is that the White Sox don't really have any other high end minor league SPs right now.

[giffted1]

I would bet on it being Dunn, but...

 

This tweet got me thinking:

Hold off on the Jackson trade folks, KW has something big cooking and if he gets it done Jackson trade is off.

Supposedly the White Sox wanted Jackson so they could flip him for Dunn. If this trade would put an end to a Jackson trade, maybe it is a deal for Prince.

 

Its fun speculating on speculation.

[wibadgers23]

Would a Dunn trade "shock the world" though? I don't know.

[1e Corbeau]

I think CWS can do a Prince deal that doesn't ionvolve Beckham...at least in my opinion. It just means that the second arm after Hudson has to be better. I'd take the 1b prospect, Hudson, and a high end minor league arm....or two.

 

I don't think Beckham is the ultimate esencial piece, but CWS have to kick in more and higher quality.

 

Saying that...I still think its Dunn.

In my opinion, Beckham has to be in, as I don't think CWS has those high-upside arms in their system. Hudson is not a high-upside arm, to me.

 

I'm assuming it'll be Dunn, too, especially since Rosenthal has been given conflicting reports on the Yankees being back in/out on Dunn. Posturing through the media to get the Nats to pull the trigger on the CWS deal. Same as the CWS might keep Jackson for themselves talk.