The trade value of Prince Fielder (part 2)

[The Truth]

I'm struggling to even wrap my mind around what the Brewers would have to give up for 2 years of Greinke (I'm assuming, endaround, that by "2 years" you mean 2 more years after this season)...

 

It would probably need to be something like Alcides Escobar, Jeffress, Rivas, Lawrie and Parra... maybe Jeffress, Rivas, Lawrie and Gamel ... perhaps, though, the Royals would take Fielder and a few minor league pitchers with the intent of flipping Fielder

[BADGERJOBOB]

Edwin Jackson on the market with a very manageable salary. How do we get him a 3 way trade. Beckham and Hudson plus for Prince. Beckham and what for Jackson?

[Kelbysdaddy]

Robideaux wrote:

Prince to White Sox for Daniel Hudson and Gordon Beckham

Corey Hart to Rays for Wade Davis

Wade Davis, Daniel Hudson, Carlos Gomez, Casey Mcgehee, and Brett Lawrie to Royals for Zach Greinke and Alex Gordon

Move Weeks to outfield or trade him if you think he can’t hack it defensively in the outfield.

Sign Jason Werth.

C Lucroy

1B Braun

2B Beckham

3B Gordon

SS Escobar

LF Weeks or Gamel

CF Cain or Weeks

RF Werth

P Greinke

P Yo

P Wolf

P ?

P ?

i think this would be very counter productive. the main target is young pitching. i am all for going after grienke and gordon. gordon would play 1b. hudson/beckham is probably too little for prince and davis is too much for hart. i would say mcgehee/gomez/a couple pitchers(bucci/jeffress/scarpetta/ anyone besides heckathorn and odorizzi)/ taylor green for grienke and gordon. i wouldnt mind werth though

1b-gordon/2b-weeks or lawrie/ss-esco/3b-beckham/of-braun/cain/werth

rotation- grienke/yo/hudson/davis/wolf.

this would be insane!

 

[The Truth]

i would say mcgehee/gomez/a couple pitchers(bucci/jeffress/scarpetta/ anyone besides heckathorn and odorizzi)/ taylor green for grienke and gordon.

There is no chance that would be enough to get just Greinke let alone both Greinke and Gordon. The Royals would want Lawrie and probably Gamel plus pitching, and I wouldn't be shocked if they wanted a young MLB talent like Escobar too. Gomez & Casey plus pitching likely wouldn't even get you 20 seconds into a phone call

 

 

[Robideaux]

i think this would be very counter productive. the main target is young pitching.

This is the attitude I'm afraid Doug Melvin has, and, in my opinion, it is shortsighted and reactionary. The main target isn't "young pitching," it is to put a team together that has a better chance at winning 90 games. I'm not sure dismantling a good offense to roll the dice on pitchers who are far from a sure thing is an ideal strategy. It's probably better than hoping that the comp picks work out (given the Brewers luck with drafting pitching), but the odds of any one of the young pitchers you acquire ever reaching 90% of Zach Greinke's value is insanely low.

 

I've read that KC wants two pitching prospects for Greinke, and by flipping Prince and Hart, I think we are one of the few teams who could accomplish that. If you can pick up two former high draft picks to revamp the infield defense, all the better.

[brewmann04]

I don't really believe either Prince or Hart will be moved unless their comes a hugh offer..

[Diggr14]

they shouldn't be moved unless the offer warrants it worth it. Hart is less in value than Fielder... but just trading Fielder just because is not going to do the fan base service... you really need to hump alot of value out of Prince Fielder. He is the best power hitter in baseball. With Howard and Dunn in the argument.

[jwill535]

He is the best power hitter in baseball. .

Russel Branyan says hi from all our hearts.

[The Truth]

Albert Pujols = Best Power Hitter in Baseball. 1.049 career OPS ... 388 HR's in 9.5 seasons

[craigharmann]

I'd love to see Prince go to the Angels for Trout and a couple of prospects. Hart to KC for whatever they can get. Granted, those are probably pipe dreams, but it would be great

[Kelbysdaddy]

i would say mcgehee/gomez/a couple pitchers(bucci/jeffress/scarpetta/ anyone besides heckathorn and odorizzi)/ taylor green for grienke and gordon.

There is no chance that would be enough to get just Greinke let alone both Greinke and Gordon. The Royals would want Lawrie and probably Gamel plus pitching, and I wouldn't be shocked if they wanted a young MLB talent like Escobar too. Gomez & Casey plus pitching likely wouldn't even get you 20 seconds into a phone call

 

well its a good thing i'm not a gm i guess. i dont think it would get grienke but it's a start. why is everyone projecting braun to be a 1b after prince is gone. his body doenst make me think 1b. he's not nearly as bad as manny ramirez in the of but no one was screaming for him to play 1b.

 

 

[Invader3K]

So can we safely say he isn't being traded at this point?

[yfinn6]

I'd love to see Prince go to the Angels for Trout and a couple of prospects. Hart to KC for whatever they can get. Granted, those are probably pipe dreams, but it would be great

Why would KC be interested in Corey Hart? Unless I'm missing something, that just doesn't make a whole of sense to me.

[jwill535]

Still have a week to go

[TooLiveBrew]

he's not nearly as bad as manny ramirez in the of but no one was screaming for him to play 1b.

 

Manny is over ten years older than Braun & is one of the worst defensive OFs in the history of the game. Being better than him really isn't a compliment. Not to mention that Braun hasn't hit anywhere close to a Manny Ramirez level. While Manny clearly sucks in the field, he was an elite bat for a stretch of at least 12 seasons.

 

Braun has been a very bad defender wherever he's played in the bigs, and lacks any kind of instincts, even at LF. Body type or not, his best defensive position is easily 1B. I think he'll be a LF for some time to come, though.

[wibadgers23]

Invader3K[/b]]So can we safely say he isn't being traded at this point?

At this point, I'd be shocked if he was traded. Just my personal feeling though. If we were to sweep the Reds and get to within 3 games of .500, then I'd be really, really shocked if there was a trade.

 

 

[craigharmann]

Why would KC be interested in Corey Hart? Unless I'm missing something, that just doesn't make a whole of sense to me.

DeJesus is hurt. Detroit also could use an outfielder with Maggs going down.

[yfinn6]

But is KC is 11 1/2 games out of the race. Are you suggesting that KC would want Corey Hart to trade him to Detroit? I thought they were looking to move DeJesus to a contender until he got hurt. Them giving up something worthwhile to get Hart doesn't seem like a good idea to me. That's why I'm confused.

[ninja33]

well, royals management can be pretty stupid and doesn't appear to have any sort of a plan in place, so you never know. Rumor has it they're very interested in Jeff Francouer and his $5 million salary.....so who knows?

[Tennik]

Invader3K[/b]]So can we safely say he isn't being traded at this point?

At this point, I'd be shocked if he was traded. Just my personal feeling though. If we were to sweep the Reds and get to within 3 games of .500, then I'd be really, really shocked if there was a trade.

 

Doug Melvin knows better than we do that the current rotation is not a competitive one. It seems he realized there were limited options for improvement this past offseason, and signed what he believed to be the best chance at an upgrade in Randy Wolf. Now he HAS TO get quality pitching for Prince and Hart. I agree that the odds are slim of this happening with teams that we know are interested currently. Hart won't get moved unless he gets back into the lineup and rakes the next couples games anyway. The only way either gets moved this week is if 1. a team that hasn't been rumored jumps in or 2. Melvin can pull off a 3 team deal. Both are possible, but not probable. I hope the fan base realizes that a "non move" this week does not indicate Melvin is happy with the current team makeup or that he isn't going to move them at all. It simply means he stuck to his guns, and that no one offered the pitching he is coveting. A non move would makes both these players the best available this winter at this point. I don't think it matters whether or not they get into the race at this point. Melvin wants pitching, if he gets it they're gone, if not they'll be here. It's that simple.

[Tennik]

As a side note since we've been talking about Daniel Hudson, here's his line from Sunday: Inn 5.0 Hits 6 Runs 5 Walks 5 SO4 ERA 6.32. Now one game does not a career make, but his penchant for games like this is the reason Melvin and company are wary.

[crewcuts]

All the speculation here is great stuff...Just not seeing any trade talk involving either Prince or Hart making sense.

Now Gomez to KC has some merit. With DeJesus down, Gomez becomes desirable and I'm ready for Cain to get some time in CF, along with Edmonds (if he doesn't go on the DL for his Achilles).

The Sox deal for Hudson and Beckham doesn't interest me at all. Hudson is a prospect with tools and may develop in time but hasn't shown anything at this level yet and there's no place for Beckham. The Crew infield is fine as is. ONLY pitching is going to improve this team. We have guys like Lawrie and Salome to acquire promising arms...The only way I trade Prince at this point is for a Sexson quality trade...A quality starter and a few major league quality prospects. I (perhaps foolishly) haven't given up on this season. There's a few "ifs" involved, but the Cards and Reds are both vulnerable...

 

I feel for Melvin...He's going to get heat no matter what he does at this point. There's valid arguments for both the buyers and sellers proponents. But you don't trade your biggest reasons for winning when you are still on the fringe of the hunt...A QUALITY starter and the healthy return of Hawkins still could make me optimistic here...

[Never Outhustled]

 

feel for Melvin...He's going to get heat no matter what he does at this point.

Why feel bad for a guy doing a guy doing terrible at his job? He's been here forever and our record is terrible. He was just asleep at the wheel while Dan Haren was given away.

[monty57]

I've read that KC wants two pitching prospects for Greinke

 

I read the same thing about Dan Haren. "Two pitching prospects" doesn't necessarily relate to two young MLB ready top of the rotation starters. Looking at the Haren deal (I agree with X that Melvin could easily have trumped the return in that deal), we could put a package together that could land Grienke if that were our target. Using Haren as a comp, we could potentially do a deal with Parra, one or two of our "#3/4 ceiling" A+/AA guys and a decent-but-not-elite bat. Also, if we are going for Grienke in a deal, there's no reason to include Gordon in the package. All that does is increase what we'd have to pay, as we have plenty of infielders in the majors and high minors.

 

The big problem I'd have with trading for Grienke is that if he only has two years left on his contract, we would very likely be looking to trade him away after next season unless he'd sign an extension. Since I don't think we should be playing for 2011 (I think we could have a decent team, but we shouldn't risk the future to make a big push in 2011), we should target players with more seasons under team control. After all, that's the only reason we're talking about trading Prince Fielder, so why get ourselves back into the same saddle? If we could get him cheaply, then absolutely go for it. If it would cost too much, then it wouldn't make sense.

 

As far as there being no reason for trading Fielder or Hart, I'm probably at the point that if Fielder or Hart aren't traded, I'll watch a lot less games the rest of the season, and really tune back in during the offseason. That's coming from someone who has probably watched 90% of the games over the past decade. The only buzz right now surrounding the Brewers (and keeping them in the news, leading to viewership) is the possibility of a trade. I've seen the lifeless, half-full stands and the Packers haven't even started to get back into the conversation. If the Brewers stand pat, I'd guess there will be many fans who decide they've watched this team lose for long enough and just stop coming to games and tuning in, which will hurt revenues this season, and kill advanced ticket sales for next season. A trade may not be a panacea, but at least it will spur some excitement and give people a reason to watch for a little while longer... at least every fifth day if we can get another pitcher who isn't likely to give up 10 runs in the first inning (I know our staff is better than it's shown, but that's the perception of many fans I talk with). I know Melvin can't say that we're giving up on the season, but if the front office keeps spouting that we're still in it, I think many fans just laugh at them and then get mad when we stand pat with the team that we've been watching lose more than win for a season and a half.

[NievesNoNO]

feel for Melvin...He's going to get heat no matter what he does at this point.

Why feel bad for a guy doing a guy doing terrible at his job? He's been here forever and our record is terrible. He was just asleep at the wheel while Dan Haren was given away.

Terrible I'm not so sure about, but your obviously entitled to your opinion. I would hardly call ten years forever. I guess in the sports world it's a long time, but for as pitiful a franchise as the Brewers were it would've taken anyone that long to turn it around. I guess that makes 28 other teams that were asleep too.

 

Heat is part of Melvin's job, if he turns them back to a contender it'll be short-lived. Anyway, I still feel Fielder gets dealt before the deadline and for all my Melvin support I'll think less of him if he doesn't at least move Hart or Fielder before this year's deadline. I still can't fathom how either will have more value in the off-season.