Milwaukee Bucks Thread 2009–2010 (part 1)

[LouisEly]

What do you expect? Alexander is terrible, Meeks has had plenty of chances and has done nothing, and Elson is totally useless. Warrick is the only one who has any basketball value, and he was third on our depth chart. Yes, three of them were expirings, but none were nearly big enough to attract any serious talent in return. The Bucks gave up almost nothing to get something marginally useful.

I'll give you three out of four. One need not look any further than Michael Redd's line his rookie year to see that it is too early to cast final judgment on Meeks. Not guaranteeing he'll turn out to be Redd, but it took Charlie Bell five years before he ever did anything in the league. Meeks has done a lot more than those two did their rookie years. (I will say though that Wesley Matthews would have been a better pick.)

 

The Bucks have done very well with 2nd round picks - LRMAM, Sessions, Ilyasova, Ronald Murray, Redd... heck, even Gadz is better than average for a 2nd round pick and Keith Bogans and Jason Hart are still hanging around the league. So who knows - maybe they nab the next LRMAM/Sessions/Ilyasova with the 2nd they acquire.

[Mr QL]

Hammond had a good deadline in my opinion. Nothing to jump up and down about either way. We gave up very little talent and got an upgrade in John Salmons, a serviceable 3rd PG(Charlie Bell is like an anti PG, have you ever seen this guy pass on a fast break ever?) in Royal Ivey who has size and defense(something neither Jennings or Ridnour have), and Primoz Brezec can't be any worse than Francisco Elson.(Hammond had him in Detroit and trusts him) Plus we got a ton of 2nd round picks and the right to swap picks with Chicago this year. All good moves which should help the team.

 

I'm disappointed we didn't address the 4 spot too but I don't see it as the end of the world. I'm glad we didn't give up a bunch for some one like Troy Murphy or Antawn Jamison. We still have Mbah A Moute(who is a more of a natural 4) and Ilyasova. Still need a big stronger rebounding PF but it's not like we had one before the deadline. Maybe sign a guy from the d-league or guy off the street like Mikki Moore, Melvin Ely, Sean Williams or whoever gets waived down the stretch.

 

I don't know what some folks(the RealGM crowd) were expecting. Scott Skiles does not like Tyrus Thomas and Jordan Hill is terrible. We weren't going to get Murphy without giving up something of worth like Ridnour and Ilyasova. Getting Jason Thompson or Carl Landry is basically a pipe dream. We're a better team than we were before the deadline and there is no reason anybody should be upset.

[homer]

Warrick, Alexander, Meeks and Elson. Not exactly a great return.

What would have been a great return for a bench player, a D Leaguer, an end of the bench guy, and a stiff?

[rwa12]

I like the moves, the only risk taken was that Meeks may develop into a complimentary player. I never see him being a superstar. Hammond is hedging that the Salmons move will propel the Bucks past the Bulls, and could net a late lottery pick. That coupled with Philly's 2 would be a nice chip to move up in the draft if desired. If not, they improve their position a few spots, and are poised to grab a "DeJuan Blair" type in the second. There are always free fallers due to weight/injury/whatever. The cap implications have already been discussed, so trading this years' expiring for next years is pretty much a wash. We did not have the chips to get a starting 4, without giving up a 1 or Ersan. Would rather take my chances at getting a 4 in the draft this year. I think with the talent the Bucks currently have, they are playing slightly above expectations. On paper, this should be a high lottery team. Outside of Bogut, and maybe Jennings, this team is composed of more depth than talent. From a baseball perspective, the Bucks are full of #4-5 Starters, middle relievers, and utility players, IMO.

[NievesNoNO]

Hammond had a good deadline in my opinion. Nothing to jump up and down about either way. We gave up very little talent and got an upgrade in John Salmons, a serviceable 3rd PG(Charlie Bell is like an anti PG, have you ever seen this guy pass on a fast break ever?) in Royal Ivey who has size and defense(something neither Jennings or Ridnour have), and Primoz Brezec can't be any worse than Francisco Elson.(Hammond had him in Detroit and trusts him) Plus we got a ton of 2nd round picks and the right to swap picks with Chicago this year. All good moves which should help the team.

Q, I pretty much agree with your entire post. Let's give Hammond a chance here my gosh. While 2nd round picks rarely have a large impact the bucks have given themselves a chance to hit on one with 9 total picks in the next 3 years. They have some expiring contracts next year and have a good young PG and Bogut is starting to develop into a solid big man. Just because you can swing a crazy deal in your video game doesn't mean it can happen in real life.

 

 

[Diskono]

I don't know what some folks(the RealGM crowd) were expecting.

http://www.derivataters.com/fakegm.png

[davego]

The Bucks got a starter @ the #2 for that mess. To me, pretty clear the deal(s) were alright. They are still in a spot where the focus is on the 2011 off-season and not 2010. If Scott can get this team into the #8 seed or even compete for it is a victory for the mgnt.

[trwi7]

Warrick, Alexander, Meeks and Elson. Not exactly a great return.

What would have been a great return for a bench player, a D Leaguer, an end of the bench guy, and a stiff?

 

Guess I just wanted to see a full on plan. When you get Salmons, go close the deal for a PF. We helped Chicago get cap room for a max FA, we get a couple 2nds and the right to swap picks if the Bulls pick isn't top 10.

 

The Rockets help the Knicks clear room for another max FA and they get recent lottery pick Jordan Hill, the right to swap 2011 1st round picks picks and a top 1 protected 2012 1st round pick just for taking Jared Jeffries.

 

If you're going to trade for Salmons, that means you want the playoffs, so why stop there? Salmons isn't going to guarantee the playoffs. Use Ersan to get Murphy, use the 1st to get Landry. Don't just stop.

 

[Mr QL]

We wouldn't be guaranteed to make the playoffs with Murphy or Landry(pipedream) either. The Pacers didn't just want a salary dump. They wanted like Ridnour and Ilyasova and in the end we'd be creating another hole at back up PG(Do you really want to see Ivey or Bell getting a lot of minutes at PG?) while giving up a young player with potential in Ilyasova. Everybody loved the idea of getting Jordan Hill or Tyrus Thomas(Scott Skiles hates him) apparently, I don't see either of those two being the player Ilyasova will be. I wouldn't want give up a 1st round pick in what I hear is suppose to be a pretty strong draft. I just think the folk at realgm like being upset for the the sake of being upset. I don't know if I'd even want to post there now if I could. Actually I would, unban me. :-(

[Baldkin]

They went 9-17 with Redd.

Without him that means they are 15-11. I believe they're 6-3 since LRMAM has started at the 4 and he's averaging just under 10 boards a game since then.

 

I love the deals. Building young is the only way Milwaukee is going to win. Trading young cheap talent for crappy contracts and Troy Murphy (who is only signed through next season anyway) doesn't fill a solid long term need for the Bucks.

 

They improved a great deal this season, and got 2 extra draft picks in the process, by trading stuff they weren't going to use. They refused to trade Ilyasova and so the Murphy deal didn't go through.

We took on 5 million in salary next year & a guy who will play in the Bucks rotation (if he doesn't opt out) The Rockets took on 20 million and got... draft pics and an underperforming lottery pick

 

What this trade does is make Jennings the third option in their offense, and will hopefully give Bogut more touches and more space to set up on the block.

[homer]

My personal opinion is that they saw something in Meeks that they just didn't like. Maybe he's lazy in practice...I don't know.

 

And it's obvious the Bucks are just treading water until after next season. Too bad Redd is so gimpy - he really could have brought in a haul had he come back strong this year.

[trwi7]

I think they think Meeks just sucks. He was billed as a shooter coming out of Kentucky and not much else. So when he couldn't shoot, they figured cut your losses quick and see if you can do better with the 2nd round pick this year.

[LouisEly]

Not true - Meeks was the key to the deal. Philly really wanted him with their 2nd round pick and was upset the Bucks nabbed him ahead of them. Elson/Brezec were just throw-ins for salary; it really was Meeks for Ivey and a 2nd.

 

Interesting bit about Brezec - it lists his birthplace as Postojna, Yugoslavia. Technically when he was born it was Yugoslavia, but now that is Slovenia. Postojna has some of the biggest caves in Europe.

[trwi7]

Not true - Meeks was the key to the deal.

For Philly, yeah. I was speaking more from the Bucks POV. Meeks was a shooter and not much else and he sucked at shooting, so cut your losses before he has no value, get a high 2nd back and see what you can do with it.

[Mr QL]

Meeks played like how I'd imagine Dan Gadzuric would if he was a SG

[Invader3K]

Salmons looked pretty good last night.

[LouisEly]

FWIW, Meeks has a much higher shooting % than Redd had his rookie year.

[bullox]

Meeks also had games of 21, 19, and 15. While outliers, they showed potential. Garbage time or not, he still had to put the ball in the basket. Time will tell as always.

[bbrauch2000]

Redd and Meeks are a poor comparison. Redd came into the league as a slasher who learned how to shoot. He's also one of the top 6 or 7 second round picks of the decade. Thinking Meeks could get there is terribly optomistic.

 

The Bucks drafted a guy touted as a shooter who couldnt shoot. Redd had a work ethic that had him in the gym killing himself over the summer after his rookie year, taking hundreds of shots a day to work on his stroke.

 

Maybe Meeks didnt demonstrate that type of work ethic. Maybe the Bucks saw what they had and knew they werent going to give him the shot the Sixers might give him. Either way, its probably a trade on such a small level it's barely worth discussing

[FVBrewerFan]

Does anyone know who the big FA will be in 2011-2012 season? I see it as a blessing in disguise that so many teams are clearing max contract space for the 2010-2011 season. There are only 4 maybe 5 guys worth that, and at last count there are now at least 8 slots available around the league? That means some of these teams will overpay for guys not worthy of max cap contracts, but either way these teams will be locked out of the market in 2011-2012. The problem, of course, is attracting a big name to Milwaukee if they can get the same contract in a more "appealing" city.

 

Just seems like the entire plan is built on 2011-2012 when they lose Redd/Gadz contracts. If they can't put together a contending team then, don't you think the franchise may be on extremely thin ice?

[Diskono]

Does anyone know who the big FA will be in 2011-2012 season? I see it as a blessing in disguise that so many teams are clearing max contract space for the 2010-2011 season. There are only 4 maybe 5 guys worth that, and at last count there are now at least 8 slots available around the league? That means some of these teams will overpay for guys not worthy of max cap contracts, but either way these teams will be locked out of the market in 2011-2012. The problem, of course, is attracting a big name to Milwaukee if they can get the same contract in a more "appealing" city.

 

Just seems like the entire plan is built on 2011-2012 when they lose Redd/Gadz contracts. If they can't put together a contending team then, don't you think the franchise may be on extremely thin ice?

just so I can post this again:

 

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Other notables include (potentially) Dirk Nowitzki, Yao, Tim Duncan and Carmello Anthony, for sure Tony Parker and Caron Butler, and a bunch of other guys who used to be good. Lots of quality restricted free agents too.

[yoshii8]

Not that Kobe would ever come here, but I would no longer be a Bucks fan.

[FVBrewerFan]

It's a depressing list. I wouldn't mind Duncan, but not at a long term max cap type of deal at his age. Not that he would come here either. Mel would be nice, but I have to believe Denver will keep him. Nobody else is worthy of a max cap type of deal. I guess you could argue it frees up enough cap room to sign 2 or 3 really good pieces, not a superstar. Unfortunately, I think this franchise needs a superstar. Looked like Jennings was that guy for about a month, but he's not. Bogut is perhaps the most under-rated player in the Association, but he's not a star either. So I see a team that has the players and future cap room to get better, but hard to see how they can become a legit contender without a Wade, Bryant, LeBron, Howard, etc. type of player.

[jjfanec]

Bogut is becoming a very good player. He has a double double at the break tonight. I am impressed with how much he has developed.

[razzzorsharp]

A 20-20 for Bogut and .5 back from the 8th spot.