Milwaukee Bucks 2013–2014

[paul253]

So at #2 you have a chance to get a player that can really be something special since this year's draft is so strong, and you want to move down to get something that would've been closer to a #2 pick in last year's more "normal" draft?

And something else. I'm not trading the #2 pick for the #4 pick. I'm getting something else. Maybe it's another first rounder this year. Maybe it's an unprotected pick next year. While the top players in this draft have the potential to be really good they also have the potential to be misses. There is no Lebron James or Tim Duncan in this draft. Embiid has major health questions. Parker doesn't have a set position and can't play defense. Wiggins is very athletic and has a ton of upside but he disappeared at times and was inconsistent at Kansas. So yeah I could get Wiggins or Parker at 2 and be very happy. But if I work out a deal with, say, Orlando, I could get Exum and Gary Harris at #4 and #12. Or I could get Randle and Stauskus. I'd be happy with that too. And again, I'm not suggesting we move down to #15. I'd probably go no lower than #6 unless the deal is too good to pass up.

[HiAndTight]

So at #2 you have a chance to get a player that can really be something special since this year's draft is so strong, and you want to move down to get something that would've been closer to a #2 pick in last year's more "normal" draft?

And something else. I'm not trading the #2 pick for the #4 pick. I'm getting something else. Maybe it's another first rounder this year. Maybe it's an unprotected pick next year. While the top players in this draft have the potential to be really good they also have the potential to be misses. There is no Lebron James or Tim Duncan in this draft. Embiid has major health questions. Parker doesn't have a set position and can't play defense. Wiggins is very athletic and has a ton of upside but he disappeared at times and was inconsistent at Kansas. So yeah I could get Wiggins or Parker at 2 and be very happy. But if I work out a deal with, say, Orlando, I could get Exum and Gary Harris at #4 and #12. Or I could get Randle and Stauskus. I'd be happy with that too. And again, I'm not suggesting we move down to #15. I'd probably go no lower than #6 unless the deal is too good to pass up.

 

 

Seriously, who has suggested ANYWHERE trading the #2 pick straight up for the #4 pick? It's been said several times. The #4 pick PLUS the Magic pick at #12 for the #2 pick. Obviously it would come at a price and a high one at that. Obviously it would be for Orlando's other 1st round pick.

 

 

Second, there are no Tim Duncan's or Lebron James in this draft? I HATE when people say that. How do you possibly know this? Wiggins has the talent to be as good as any shooting guard in the NBA. 44 inch vert, great defender. Embiid has more agility and touch than any big man I've seen in a long time. He does NOT have "major health questions." He has ONE health question that seems to have been answered, that was a very minor injury. You're logic is based on former bigs and their health issues. That's reasonable. It is NOT reasonable to say that Embiid has major health questions.

 

 

 

 

The one team I can promise you is going to try and give up whatever they can to get our pick at #2 is the Jazz. They want Parker and I can't remember when a team and a player were better fits for each other. Yes, in large part because of the Mormon thing. That's big in Utah, not just a stereotype. The owner of the Jazz(on undercover boss) said when people think of Utah, they think of two things, Mormons and the Utah Jazz...and he's right(kinda).

[HiAndTight]

What HiandTight is saying is that he believes the player that will be drafted at #4 this year is just as good/has just as much talent as the player that will be drafted at #2, thus the reason for trading down to #4. He is also saying that if he felt that the player that will be drafted at #4 wasn't as good as the player that will be drafted at #2 he would not want to trade down.

 

You're right, usually the chances of hitting at #2 are better than #4, but it wasn't the case in 2003, 2005, and 2008 (and sort-of 2009, but #2 was definitely better in 2004, 2006, and 2007).

 

 

Thank you. I don't know how I can make it any clearer.

 

The top 4 players in this draft are considered to be elite. Scouts have absolutely raved about Exum's potential.

At #12, the Bucks could still be in a position to draft someone like Young from Kentucky. That's a kid with a 7 foot wingspan.

 

That gives you(just in ONE single hypothetical).

Exum 6'6 PG

Young 6-7 SG

Giannis 7-0 SF(he's projected to grow another inch yet by his doctors)

 

And then Henson, Sanders, whoever. That is SUCH a long and talented group right there, our defense would be outstanding and the first two are so quick they can get to the rim.

 

 

I'm not advocating trying to do ANYTHING that in ANYWAY resembles a "quick fix." In fact, I DON'T want Parker because I believe out of the 4 he has the lowest ceiling, but will make the most immediate impact. I want these young guys to improve, probably have another season where they win maybe 25 games and add another lottery pick next year.

 

 

So again, if the top 4 players are essentially equal(and many believe Exum could have been the top pick had he played college ball this year) then why NOT move back and pick up another high pick?

[paul253]

Seriously, who has suggested ANYWHERE trading the #2 pick straight up for the #4 pick? It's been said several times.

 

It's sarcasm dude.

 

Second, there are no Tim Duncan's or Lebron James in this draft? I HATE when people say that. How do you possibly know this?

 

Because James and Duncan were once in a generation players. They had few, if any, holes in there games and a team with them on it goes from being one of the worst in basketball to at least an average team. I don't think it's a stretch to say this considering just how good James and Duncan were. Yes this year's crop has the potential to be good. But be honest with yourself. If James or Duncan were in this draft would there be any doubt at all that they'd be #1? Would you even consider taking Embiid over Duncan? I sure wouldn't.

 

It is NOT reasonable to say that Embiid has major health questions.

Since when is a stress fracture minor?

[nate82]

if Hammond is actually sticking around for a while, he'll definitely be in win-now mode to keep his job with the new bosses. win-now means Jabari Parker.

 

I believe the Bucks are going to trade out of the #2 pick.

 

 

Well, Hammond has answered the question directly.

 

I actually wanted to say to quote the article I read, but this is the one I could find quickly;

 

General manager John Hammond says he cannot see the Milwaukee Bucks trading away the Number-two draft pick to get an established player. There's at least some talk that Cleveland -- which won its second straight NBA Draft Lottery on Tuesday night -- will trade away its Number-One pick to get an established free agent like Minnesota's Kevin Love, or perhaps to bring LeBron James back to his home-state Cavs. Hammond does not see the Bucks doing that. He says new owners Wesley Edens and Marc Lasry buy into the concept of building a fresh team through the draft.

 

 

His comments were a lot stronger in another article in which he stated that he feels relieved to have a new ownership group that understand that the Bucks are in multi-year rebuilding process and not looking for a quick fix.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, how do we even know what John Hammond is really like as a GM? He'd been given a mandate to win when it was almost impossible. He's done well in the draft given the picks he's had with Giannis(who would be the #1 or #2 pick if the draft was redrafted right now), Sanders, Henson, Wolters and Brandon Jennings.

 

He seems like he's had the right thought process the whole time, but has been hamstrung by an owner who wants to win, and who I believe wanted to win to help keep the team in Milwaukee by putting a winner out there and getting public support for a new stadium.

 

I'm not saying he won't go with Parker. He may have a different view than me on Parker as most do....but he's made it clear he's not in a "win-now type of mode."

 

Well I don't see the Bucks trading the pick for a player but for multiple picks in this draft I can definitely see that happening. I could also see the Bucks trading one of their many 2nd round picks and a player like Mayo to a team for a late or mid 1st round pick.

 

I definitely see Cleveland trading out of the #1 spot which Philadelphia definitely has the right amount of picks to trade for the #1 pick.

 

I believe trading with the Magic would be the most beneficial if you could get the #4 and #12 pick from Orlando. That could give you Exum and Young which would be a very good 1 and 2 guard option and that is really building for the future and is not a win now mode.

[paul253]

I read in a blog that Hammond is really high on Parker and Exum. That same blog said that ownership might get involved and "force" Hammond to take Parker or Wiggins at #2 if Hammonds wants Exum because they want more of a name player. That's just one opinion of course so take it with a grain of salt. Personally my choice in order would be 1) Wiggins 2) Embiid 3) Exum 4) Parker. The fact that Parker is a tweener and can't play defense bothers me. I've heard multiple reports that Wiggins can be a lock down defender which, along with his offensive potential, make him more valuable to me.

 

That being said if Parker and Exum are really thought of that highly by Hammond he should try to get a deal done with Orlando to swap #2 (and maybe #31) for #4 and #12 because it's almost a given that either Parker or Exum will available at 4.

[RockCoCougars]

If the Bucks swap picks with Orlando, there is no guarantee that they would get Exum anyway. What they would end up with would be a guy that three teams passed over for a better option. I also have zero faith that the 12 pick would turn into anything worthwhile with Hammond drafting, so I don't want to see a deal. The only deal that I would even consider would be if the Bucks had Exum on top of their board and Cleveland took Embiid. If the Sixers really covet Wiggins would they do 3 and 10? Again, the only way that I do this is if Exum is their clear choice.

[paul253]

What they would end up with would be a guy that three teams passed over for a better option.

 

Maybe a better option for them but not necessarily a better option for the Bucks.

 

If the Bucks swap picks with Orlando, there is no guarantee that they would get Exum anyway.

 

No there isn't but they would be guaranteed to get Embiid Wiggins or Parker then. To walk away with one of those three AND the 12 pick would be fantastic. It all depends on scouting though. If there are 2 guys the Bucks REALLY want then keep the #2 and make the pick. I just think that if they really want Parker or Exum its fairly likely that one will be available at #4, especially if reports of Embiid solidifying his spot as the top prospect are true. If not you walk away with Wiggins and the #12 pick. Darn.

I also have zero faith that the 12 pick would turn into anything worthwhile with Hammond drafting,

 

Hammonds has actually been fairly successful at drafting. Sanders at #15 Henson at #14 and Giannis at 15 were all solid picks.

[patrickgpe]

Embiid had a very impressive workout yesterday according to reports, still hope the cavs take him at 1, and the bucks can pick between wiggins and parker

[davego]

If we flip with Orlando...can they give us Tobias back?

[fondybrewfan]

About 75% of the mock drafts so far have Wiggins #1 to Cleveland and Embiid #2 to the Bucks.

 

This is going to happen and I am going to be so pissed. I would love to be proven wrong about Embiid but that pick probably wouldn't get me excited about 2014/2015. The team still wouldn't be able to score a lick; at least they would probably guaranty themselves a Top #7 pick again next year. If Wiggins goes #1 and the Bucks would take Embiid #2; I seriously would rather them trade down a few spots and take someone like Exum, Randle, or Smart and pick up another 1st rounder next year. Ideally they would just take Parker at #2 but no one seems to be predicting that right now.

[patrickgpe]

I could see Hammond passing on Parker because of the Greek freak, which would be a mistake. I just hope the cavs take Embiid and saves Hammond from possibly making a terrible decision.

[FVBrewerFan]

About 75% of the mock drafts so far have Wiggins #1 to Cleveland and Embiid #2 to the Bucks.

 

Well, 100% of the mock drafts were wrong last year on the #1 pick, so I wouldn't put too much stock in that. I guarantee Embiid is the #1 pick, and I don't go out a limb very often like that. All these teams have cleared him medically, and every work-out he's add wasjaw dropping. Nobody is going to pass on an athletic 7 footer. I can see many here would not take him, that's fine, just saying he will be #1.

 

I would trade down and take Exum and James Young in minute, but the Bucks need all the PR they can get- they will keep the #2 and take Wiggins. And I would be perfectly fine with that.

[Baldkin]

Embiid is by far and away the best player in the draft. If he's there, you have to take him.

 

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ryen-russillos-nba-draft-confidential-real-scouts-on-wiggins-randle-embiid-and-parker/

 

Scout 1: If healthy, I’m taking him no. 1 and it’s not even close.

 

This is how it works: We use tiers. There could be five guys in a tier, it doesn’t matter what order. Some would have the first five guys in a tier (Embiid, Parker, Wiggins, Randle, and Exum). Say Vonleh and Gordon are in the second tier.

 

My top tier is Embiid, by himself.

 

I think Embiid is the only difference-maker in the group. I like Parker and Wiggins, but if they are your best player, you are going to be in the lottery every year.

 

I will not understand the desire to draft Parker, a guy who in college was being pulled for offense/defense substitutions with a top 5 pick. That's how bad he is defensively.

[trwi7]

I have Parker 4th. The lowest ceiling of the top 4, not a good defender and the dreaded 3/4 tweener to me.

[Outlander]

I would be perfectly fine with them taking Embiid with the pick. There are a lot of people on the radio saying they want the Cavs to take Embiid so the Bucks are not tempted but I disagree. Take the guy that has the chance to be the franchise type player that can lead you to a championship. I think Embiid could be that player, while Parker and Wiggins seem like potential All Starts I don't know if I see franchise player. Embiid could be a bust but if your goal is to win championships they should go for it.

[brwrsfan]

I'm one of those people. Embiid could very well be good, but to me, he has a ton of red flags. He's really, really raw too. That means there is a bunch of room to develop, but at the same time, that could take years to happen - just soon enough for him to leave Milwaukee.

 

This team needs scoring, someone that can make an impact now. To me, that's Wiggins, though from what I can read, the Bucks don't seem to be too high on him.

[patrickgpe]

I would be perfectly fine with them taking Embiid with the pick. There are a lot of people on the radio saying they want the Cavs to take Embiid so the Bucks are not tempted but I disagree. Take the guy that has the chance to be the franchise type player that can lead you to a championship. I think Embiid could be that player, while Parker and Wiggins seem like potential All Starts I don't know if I see franchise player. Embiid could be a bust but if your goal is to win championships they should go for it.

 

This has been Hammond's strategy since day 1. Every 1st round pick he has taken has been a project. Mostly due to the position of where the bucks were taking, they took players with huge upsides with mixed results. At the end of the day the bucks still had the worst record in the league.

 

the finally have an opportunity to take a franchise player without as much risk. If they draft Embiid, I won't be as upset as some on this board and other boards, but he is by far the largest risk/reward player in the last few drafts. If the bucks pass on a Durant to get greg odem, it will put the franchise farther behind than they already are.

[rwa12]

I like Parker, he's going to be a good player on a bad team. He doesn't strike me as a world beater, but he'll score. He is probably the most ready to help this Bucks team. Exum is going to have a hard time creating with our limited offensive options at the moment. I'm not sure how I feel about Wiggins. I don't envy Hammond on this one. He is going to be second guessed regardless. The best pick in this draft may well be #4, as decisions will be made for you. There is some good late lottery talent as well. I think this draft is full of starters with a few possible All-Stars. I'm not sure there is a franchise guy, but as far as quality depth goes, you should be able to get rotation guys deep into the first round. Something that hasn't been possible in the last few drafts.

[FVBrewerFan]

If the bucks pass on a Durant to get greg odem, it will put the franchise farther behind than they already are.

 

If they pass on Olajuwan to to get Todd Day it will also put the franchise farther behind. Emdiid is not the huge project some of you are saying he is. His game will be solid on both sides of the court from game 1. He will be better on the offensive end than Larry Sanders immediately. Yea, not saying much I know, but it seems like some of you are saying that's the level he's at offensively. But again, doesn't matter because he is the #1 pick- period.

 

Finally, you say the Bucks picks have been mixed results. Not really. Hammond has gone with raw talent guys that need development as you said, and they've all pretty much performed above where they've been drafted. Joe Alexander is an exception, but everyone else was a good pick. Jennings, Sanders, Harris, Henson, Giannis. Not to mention how well he's done in the 2nd round.

 

That's why I'm confident the Bucks will get this right. As horrible as Hammond has been managing the roster, he's been very good on draft day.

[Warning Track Power]

I like Parker, he's going to be a good player on a bad team. He doesn't strike me as a world beater, but he'll score. He is probably the most ready to help this Bucks team. Exum is going to have a hard time creating with our limited offensive options at the moment. I'm not sure how I feel about Wiggins. I don't envy Hammond on this one. He is going to be second guessed regardless. The best pick in this draft may well be #4, as decisions will be made for you. There is some good late lottery talent as well. I think this draft is full of starters with a few possible All-Stars. I'm not sure there is a franchise guy, but as far as quality depth goes, you should be able to get rotation guys deep into the first round. Something that hasn't been possible in the last few drafts.

I actually think it is #3. Embiid/Parker/Wiggins are all so close in terms of evaluation that whoever has #1 has to decide amongst the three, #2 between the leftover two and #3 has their pick made for them. Having said that, I think Parker is the best fit for the Bucks given their current makeup of D first players, his being Chicago-born and his off court character. I think while he may not have the ceiling of Wiggins or Embiid, he could be the face of the franchise for the next decade all while being a solid citizen. Given the #2 pick, the Bucks will have to decide between Wiggins/Embiid (one of which goes #1) and Parker. It won't hurt my feelings if they draft Embiid, as a frontline of Embiid, Sanders, Henson, Giannis has legit D potential, but how are they going to score?

[Baldkin]

If the bucks pass on a Durant to get greg odem, it will put the franchise farther behind than they already are.

 

If they pass on Olajuwan to to get Todd Day it will also put the franchise farther behind. Emdiid is not the huge project some of you are saying he is. His game will be solid on both sides of the court from game 1. He will be better on the offensive end than Larry Sanders immediately. Yea, not saying much I know, but it seems like some of you are saying that's the level he's at offensively. But again, doesn't matter because he is the #1 pick- period.

 

Finally, you say the Bucks picks have been mixed results. Not really. Hammond has gone with raw talent guys that need development as you said, and they've all pretty much performed above where they've been drafted. Joe Alexander is an exception, but everyone else was a good pick. Jennings, Sanders, Harris, Henson, Giannis. Not to mention how well he's done in the 2nd round.

 

That's why I'm confident the Bucks will get this right. As horrible as Hammond has been managing the roster, he's been very good on draft day.

 

You mean like passing on taking Klay Thompson to trade down and acquire Stephen Jackson (and eventually draft Tobias Harris)?

 

I want no part of Hammond running anything.

 

As for scoring, you score in the NBA by running the pick and roll and with ball movement. You don't score in the NBA by letting Caron Butler and Brandon Knight hold the ball and hope they can throw up a shot at some point in the shot clock (aka, the Larry Drew offense).

 

They are still going to be bad next year, but if they upgrade their coach, run Wolters as the starting point guard, and give Giannis more touches to create on offense, there could be a huge improvement on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball.

[patrickgpe]

Hammond has been OK with the draft. It hasn't gotten him anywhere. Sanders had one good year and got paid and reverted to a head case. Henson's production has slowed down under Drew. Giannis has huge potential but needs to develop a jump shot. Jennings didn't do anything great after his rookie year. Harris played well on the Magic, but Hammond stupidly traded him away for a rental.

 

Maybe you can't mess this pick up, but don't confuse Hammond with Jack Z.

[patrickgpe]

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/10997749/potential-no-1-overall-pick-joel-embiid-visit-cleveland-cavaliers

 

very interesting, looks like if Embiid does not visit the bucks, he most likely is the pick for Cleveland.

[FVBrewerFan]

You mean like passing on taking Klay Thompson to trade down and acquire Stephen Jackson (and eventually draft Tobias Harris)?

 

I want no part of Hammond running anything.

 

Yes, I have no problem with the Tobias Harris pick. Again, he has done very well on draft day, not defending his moves the other 364 days of the year. Besides Hammond IS running the draft, so that ship has sailed. Get draft day right, then take some time to find a new GM and dump salary- as much as possible. Hire Bo Ryan to coach, WHOAA SOLLLVD. (Yea I know Bo Ryan isn't an option.)

 

Agree with you pick and roll is the best way to score consistently in the NBA, and Wolters ran it better last year than any PG they've had in years.