Scooter Gennett led the Major Leagues in AVG for August

[gregmag]

Have you seen the cost of mediocre on the FA market these days? In years and money? This is just my opinion but I think he has a skill set that is under appreciated in today's game. That should lead to a good value for production ratio. I am not saying he should be treated like a star in the making. He does look to be someone who can hold his own by playing consistent, if unspectacular, baseball at a position where that is the norm. And the norm costs money unless you produce one on your own. We are not going to have a lineup full of all stars. So we have to find people who can contribute something at a cost that allows us to fill real holes. So I guess my point is this is who we have. Whining about the fact he isn't ever going to be an all star seems to miss that most teams need to have those guys on their team so they can address areas where they have nothing. Guys like him allow the team to avoid a black hole like we had for a few year ago with short and third. Simply by being a cost effective mediocre player who allows the team to spend money on players like Ramirez, Braun and Lohse. Why bash a guy for being what he is if he is better than what you have and helps you get better elsewhere?

As far as possible in the roster-design process, we should always be looking for good, cheap players. As near as possible to the end of the roster-design process, we can start settling for mediocre, cheap players and/or decent, expensive players to fill the remaining holes. I get that Scooter's cheap (although of course there are ways other than premium free agency to fill holes with mediocre players). His cheapness and his youth are the reasons I'm perfectly happy giving him an extended look. At this moment, as you say, he's who we have, and we aren't likely to come up with a more attractive option without additional time and effort. But if he turns out to be mediocre -- you're right, that isn't worthless, but it isn't a whole lot. At that point, he's just another guy who isn't winning games. I don't think at that point we should just say "this is who we have" and stop looking for someone better. We should treat that spot as one where improvement is possible and desirable, just like we treat any other spot where we don't have a good, cheap player.

[brewcrewdue80]

Congrats to Scooter on his accomplishment.

 

As to the argument on his value. As it's been stated 2b isn't known to have guys with .700+OPS and if Gennett projects to be a .700 OPS guy only is that such a bad thing?

What amazes me is that by saying hey Scooter is the 2b for the future...Well how long is that Future supposed to be? Why do we have to attach 6years to it? How about just 3? Can we live with Scooter for 3 seasons making what? 600k avg. in that span as .700OPS 2b?

As I recall, baseball teams aren't just made up of a ML roster with no "Prospects" coming up in the woodworks. Ahem. Orlando Arcia? I mean obviously Segura isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Oh and how about the top draft prospects in 2014? Trea Turner? Jacob Gatewood? What if the team winds up drafting one of them?(I know SP! right!) I'd expect them to make it through the ladder in to the ML roster within 4years. So again replacing somebody at 2b/SS and based on our projections...Gennett would be it.

 

Personally Gennett fits everything I'd want on this current team Lineup. Bat him 7th behind Gomez at 6. Gomez's speed combined with Gennett's BA should amount to number of Slap hitting Single RBIs out of Gennett. I like the duo those two could/should have in the batting order. Something Weeks long standing non-clutch hitting made that duo incompetent. Keep in mind this is with the Aoki,Segura,Braun,Ramirez,Lucroy batting lineup for 2014. I'm personally not looking to sign Hart to play 1b with Francisco/Gamel/Green/Morris in the mix to attempt to fill that void. And thus figuring they bat 8th. It's bad enough to wonder how long Ramirez's knees will hold up but to add Hart in to that question mark just seems foolish for the likely asking price.

My 2 cents on Gennett and my approval to play 2b on Milw!

[reillymcshane]

What amazes me is that by saying hey Scooter is the 2b for the future...Well how long is that Future supposed to be? Why do we have to attach 6years to it? How about just 3? Can we live with Scooter for 3 seasons making what? 600k avg. in that span as .700OPS 2b?

As I recall, baseball teams aren't just made up of a ML roster with no "Prospects" coming up in the woodworks. Ahem. Orlando Arcia? I mean obviously Segura isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

I totally agree with this. An average Scooter at less than a million bucks is a nice player to have. It gives the team nice financial flexibility.

 

It doesn't mean we don't upgrade the position if the opportunity comes along. But it is a nice option to have.

 

And like brewcrewdue80 says, it doesn't have to six years. It could be three or four or whatever works out.

 

Maybe in four years we have Arcia coming up to play SS, and you move Segura there. Or whatever. It's just an example.

 

The team doesn't have a ton of wiggle room with regard to salaries. It has around $82 million committed to payroll next year. Plus there's a $4 million buyout of A-Ram's contract if we don't want him in 2015. We only have two arby eligible guys - Badenhop and Estrada (I incorporated their guesstimated salaries into the $82 million total). We could shed a few million by not offering either of them a contract, but that's unlikely with Estrada. Perhaps Badenhop. A trade of a player is possible as well. But there's not a lot of room here to add any major talent, unless we are willing to increase the payroll beyond the $90 million or so that it's at this year.

 

Cheap, productive guys are essential to our success. If Scooter can play at an average level (and who knows, maybe better), he's a good player to have at this stage.

[jerichoholicninja]

I think most posters here would have no problem acquiring a better second baseman if the team was in contention and there was a clear upgrade available but how often does the management of any team make a move like that. If a guy is entrenched as a starter they don't make moves unless the player gets injured or is completely terrible. See Yuni playing the whole season at short for a division champion.

[Thurston Fluff]

I get that Scooter's cheap (although of course there are ways other than premium free agency to fill holes with mediocre players).

 

i can get behind everything you said in that post but I'm not sure the other ways are cheaper while providing the same amount of certainty as free agents or average caliber prospects. You can trade for them. But giving up something for mediocre seems a wash at best. Finding one on the scrap heap is a good option. One I fully endorse since it gave us the likes of McGehee and Bianchi. But I think that has less certainty of filling a position with an adequate player than the other options. I do think it helps to add some of them to add cheap competition more than to assure adequate coverage on it's own.

[yoshii8]

I'm down w/ giving Scooter the everyday job next season. However, we need to figure out what to do w/ Weeks. Has he completely lost all value? I can't believe that someone wouldn't take him on, he's had some pretty nice seasons.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'm down w/ giving Scooter the everyday job next season. However, we need to figure out what to do w/ Weeks. Has he completely lost all value? I can't believe that someone wouldn't take him on, he's had some pretty nice seasons.

 

Somebody will take him, but just like Bill Hall, they'll wait until he comes at minimum wage. Nobody is going to pay him $11 million or even half of that. Sure the Brewers could offer to pay $8 or $9 million of his salary, and hope somebody bites with something in return but teams knowing that will just wait it out. He's certainly not a difference maker for anyone that they have to have him now.

 

I like everything I've seen of Gennett. Those hung up on his fairly modest minor league numbers conveniently forget he hit around .400 in the AFL a couple years ago. His numbers are over a rather small sample. But he's earned the everyday job for 2014. His future beyond that is yet to be determined.

[torts]

even if gennett ended up hitting .250 next season, that'd be days better than the .200 weeks has given us for the last two years. i dont expect him to be a .300+ batter, I just expect him to be better than weeks has been.

[sveumrules]

The last two years Weeks has been at 222/320/384, the average MLB 2B during that same time frame is at 254/315/374. So for as terrible as Weeks has been at the plate, he has been above league average for his position at the plate.

 

If Scooter hits .250 next year I'd project his OBP/SLG to be about 310/350, which is still better than I'd project Weeks considering another year of age/injury related decline. Of course, this is just considering offense. I really don't want to think (and hope I'm not subjected to) what Weeks defense will presumably look like in 2014.

[TURBO]

If Weeks is on our roster to open next season, I just can't see RRR benching him. Scooter will play out this season, and start on the bench next year (assuming that he makes the roster, I won't be surprised to see him starting at AAA until Rickie gets injured again), as we watch Weeks struggle through another putrid season. (my opinion of course...)

[torts]

The last two years Weeks has been at 222/320/384, the average MLB 2B during that same time frame is at 254/315/374. So for as terrible as Weeks has been at the plate, he has been above league average for his position at the plate.

 

If Scooter hits .250 next year I'd project his OBP/SLG to be about 310/350, which is still better than I'd project Weeks considering another year of age/injury related decline. Of course, this is just considering offense. I really don't want to think (and hope I'm not subjected to) what Weeks defense will presumably look like in 2014.

 

wow, was not aware of the league 2B stats... yikes.

[reillymcshane]

Interesting article about Scooter at Disciples of Uecker:

 

http://disciplesofuecker.com/should-scooter-gennett-start-in-2014/14442

 

They point out that Scooter really struggles against lefties - that includes the majors (very small sample size) as well as the minors.

 

In the limited ABs I've seen Scooter against lefties, he looks like he's going to have issues with them.

[gregmag]

It sure looks like a perfect platoon situation, given that Weeks is under contract and not convertible into other assets. My hope for Scooter is that he continues to develop -- maybe the small-sample power is real development already -- and putting him in positions to succeed at the outset seems like a smart strategy. Eventually the team may want to see if he can improve against LHPs, but having a platoon partner gives them flexibility in trying to make that transition.

[Outlander]

A Gennett/Weeks platoon would work in theory but I don't see it happening because of the clubhouse and the manager. If Gennett is going to get the majority of starts I think Weeks has to be gone.

[Thurston Fluff]

I wonder where they got those numbers from. I just looked on MiLb.com and saw different numbers. http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=571697

[reillymcshane]

I wonder where they got those numbers from. I just looked on MiLb.com and saw different numbers. http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=571697

The author has used Baseball Reference:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=gennet001rya&type=bgl&year=2013

 

This incorporates AAA and major leagues. He either didn't realize that, or wasn't clear about it in the article.

[logan82]

I don't like the idea of having 2 guys on the roster who are limited to 2B.

[DuWayne Steurer]

even if gennett ended up hitting .250 next season, that'd be days better than the .200 weeks has given us for the last two years. i dont expect him to be a .300+ batter, I just expect him to be better than weeks has been.

 

 

The problem here is that if Gennett hits .250, his OBP is going to be below .300, because he rarely walks. Weeks, for all his foibles, was still getting on base the last 2 years with a .328 and a .306 OBP despite posting BA's of .230 and .209. Gennett's OBP is tied almost entirely to his batting average, so if he stops hitting (and hitting for power, which I suspect so far is kinda flukey), he will become almost completely worthless.

[Thurston Fluff]

even if gennett ended up hitting .250 next season, that'd be days better than the .200 weeks has given us for the last two years. i dont expect him to be a .300+ batter, I just expect him to be better than weeks has been.

 

 

The problem here is that if Gennett hits .250, his OBP is going to be below .300, because he rarely walks. Weeks, for all his foibles, was still getting on base the last 2 years with a .328 and a .306 OBP despite posting BA's of .230 and .209. Gennett's OBP is tied almost entirely to his batting average, so if he stops hitting (and hitting for power, which I suspect so far is kinda flukey), he will become almost completely worthless.

 

How likely is that? Gennett's a 23 year old who has hit for average throughout the minors. Given his age, he is likely to get better not worse. It certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility that he improves his walk rate. So why worry about what will happen if he not only stops progressing and actually starts to regress. At least not until there is some reason to think it would be so.

[JimH5]

I'm really glad for Gennett's success--and while he's not Mazeroski in the field, he seems to get to balls that have gotten past Weeks. I'm fine with him as the starter going into next season.

 

The only issue I have is that he's seeing fewer pitches per plate appearance (3.28) than even Yuni (3.39).

 

I guess if they're going to serve up a first pitch strike and he can hit it, that's great. But sooner or later, pitchers are going to stretch his strike zone. I hope he can adjust.

 

Fernando Vina carved out a nice career despite being a hacker, so it wouldn't be the end of the world, but when a guy is young and somewhat promising, it would be nice to see him maximize his potential.

[DuWayne Steurer]

even if gennett ended up hitting .250 next season, that'd be days better than the .200 weeks has given us for the last two years. i dont expect him to be a .300+ batter, I just expect him to be better than weeks has been.

 

 

The problem here is that if Gennett hits .250, his OBP is going to be below .300, because he rarely walks. Weeks, for all his foibles, was still getting on base the last 2 years with a .328 and a .306 OBP despite posting BA's of .230 and .209. Gennett's OBP is tied almost entirely to his batting average, so if he stops hitting (and hitting for power, which I suspect so far is kinda flukey), he will become almost completely worthless.

 

How likely is that? Gennett's a 23 year old who has hit for average throughout the minors. Given his age, he is likely to get better not worse. It certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility that he improves his walk rate. So why worry about what will happen if he not only stops progressing and actually starts to regress. At least not until there is some reason to think it would be so.

 

I was only responding directly to the "If Gennett hits .250" post. I don't think it's all that likely that he does, but my point is IF Gennett hits .250, for an entire season, I suspect he'll have very little offensive value. I would expect an OBP south of .300 and about 25 - 30 doubles and no more than 12 to 15 homers. Again, IF he hits .250, which is what I was responding to, he's probably going to put an OPS in the .650 to .675 range, with average to mediocre defense? That's just not going to cut it.

 

All that being said........I don't think Gennett WILL regress like that. But there's no denying that most of Gennett's offensive value is tied into his BA over a full season.

[RightFieldCoder]

no more than 12 to 15 homers

I think that's close to the max he'll have if he hits .330 for a year.

[reillymcshane]

The more I see Scooter against lefties, the more he looks completely lost.

 

It's a really small sample, so I probably shouldn't see too much into it, but it's hard not to be a little worried. It seems they throw to him inside or down and out and he flails at it.

 

Right now, he's 2 for 28 with 11k against lefties.

[brwrsfan]

We could platoon him and Weeks next year in a strict lefty/righty split. If not Weeks, almost all utility guys are right, so it shouldn't be that hard to do and gradually let Scooter get some AB's against lefties to see if he gets any better.

[homer]

We could platoon him and Weeks next year in a strict lefty/righty split. If not Weeks, almost all utility guys are right, so it shouldn't be that hard to do and gradually let Scooter get some AB's against lefties to see if he gets any better.

 

Yeah, grab some guy like Punto who can play all over and still gets on base some. Not ideal but might work out well.