2007 Vent Thread, Part 3

[Never Outhustled]

With TBow, he's either lights-out or trouble. For those who want someone more steady, it's important to keep in mind that the 'steady' option may well yeild similar aggregate results, but without the extremes of Derek. I'll take him over the 'steady' option as a set-up man, simply bc when he's on, no one can damage him.

 

Good set-up men, the guys your calling steady, are lights out just as often, but when they have a bad outing, they don't completely give the game away, thats how they have such significantly lower ERAs.

 

You make it sound as though the steady guy has a bunch of games where they give up 1 run, and they both have the same ERA in the end, but thats not the case. Turnbows ERA is twice that of many of the good set-up men.

[brewmann04]

I don"t think everyone Upset wit Turbow as we are with the Other Relievers ( Capallan and Sputrling).Let bring up someone who can throw Strikes Like Balfour and look to add another arm to that Pen.

[TheCouga23]

Not that this is atypical of baseball fans, but why is it always the relief pitchers that get blamed for losses if a one run lead is blown late in the game?

 

Take a look at this game. I blame the offense. How were we only winning by one run after the performance Gallardo gave when we were facing the Royals and Odalis Perez? I think the offense should be expected to give us a bigger lead than one run by the 8th inning.

[Ennder]

Our bullpen really takes a lot of blame but we are 10th in MLB with a 3.61 ERA and only the Padres and Red Sox are significantly better as the 3rd best ERA is 3.43.

Only four bullpens have BB'd fewer than we have, only six have K'd more than we have. Nine have given up fewer HR's than we have.

 

Cordero - 2.23

CV - 2.96

Wise - 3.16

Shouse - 3.38

Spurling - 3.47

Turnbow 4.01

Capellan 4.09

 

Thats a better bullpen than we had last year thats for sure.

[Never Outhustled]

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Our bullpen really takes a lot of blame but we are 10th in MLB

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Do you really think its fair to compare our bullpen to AL bullpens? Facing a PH is not anything like facing David Ortiz, Jim Thome, Travis Hafner, or Frank Thomas.

 

The Brewers aspire to be the top team in the NL, why settle for an upper middle of the NL bullpen? Also, our bullpen ranking is only as good as it is because we have better ERAs from the backend end of the bullpen than most bullpens, not because of the guys pitching leverage innings.

[Fatter than Joey]

I am not sure holds/save ops. are the best tool to measure RP effectiveness.

[Ennder]

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Do you really think its fair to compare our bullpen to AL bullpens? Facing a PH is not anything like facing David Ortiz, Jim Thome, Travis Hafner, or Frank Thomas.

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Ok so we are 5th out of 14 teams then instead of 10th out of 30 and only 1 team in the NL is significantly better than ours and thats the Padres. There really isn't much difference between AL and NL bullpens. The average AL RP is a 4.20, the average NL RP is a 3.99.

[whynotthebrewers]

Theres not a team in baseball with a worse set-up guy than T-Bow. Its Melvin that has an unfounded love affair with him, not Yost. Hopefully someday soon Melvin realizes that it might be a good idea to get the type of set-up guy the rest of the contenders have. You know, one of the guys with an ERA

 

I didnt want to start up this argument but this comment is so far off. You need to realize that he is good, not Melvin. He numbers are fine and except for a few games he has been great. You listed a couple good relievers but a couple have numbers just like Bow. And all of them have games where they blow up. Bow just has higher numbers because he really sucks it up when he has a bad game. But even Shields, who has great numbers, gave up a game against Cleveland when they were in town. So he is not perfect and I would bet he has had other bad outings as well.

 

Point is, he is not the worst out there, and some of the guys you listed, are worse than he is. If you think all of the contenders have better pens, why did you only list a few of the teams. The statement is false and there really are not many good ones out there.

[afeter]

Offical vent: This thread has 52 pages and the Offical silver lining thread has 5. Attention All: the brewers have been in first for months. Is this entire board full of downers?

[patrickgpe]

not a brewers rant, and this has been covered before but espn is driving me nuts. They are showing the mets 3 times this week. If i lived in a market without a team and could only watch the espn national broadcasts i would go crazy and could not stand the mets, sox, and yankees.

[Invader3K]

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Offical vent: This thread has 52 pages and the Offical silver lining thread has 5. Attention All: the brewers have been in first for months. Is this entire board full of downers?

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Pretty much.

[pebadger]

My problem with the Silver Lining thread is that the name itself implies an overall atmosphere of gloom as being the norm. While this may have been warranted over the past 20 years, it is no longer a good mindset for Brewer fans.

 

Thus, my earlier call for an Irrational Exhuberance thread, which would balance the what this tread which is all too often an Irrational Despair thread.

 

Sure, it's just semantics, but it's no more silly than some of the other gripes in this thread.

[olliegjw]

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Do you really think its fair to compare our bullpen to AL bullpens? Facing a PH is not anything like facing David Ortiz, Jim Thome, Travis Hafner, or Frank Thomas.

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Yes, because NL teams always pinch hit for their 3-4-5 hitters.

 

In order to compare apples to apples, you'd have to compare NL PH's to AL #9 hitters. Not to mention, most PH's are opposited handed of the pitchers. Since most pitchers are worse against opposite-hander hitters, an argument could be made that NL bullpen's are tougher. Overall, I'd say it's a wash.

[trwi7]

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Offical vent: This thread has 52 pages and the Offical silver lining thread has 5. Attention All: the brewers have been in first for months. Is this entire board full of downers?

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The vent thread was started like 2 months before the silver lining thread.

 

Oh yeah this is the vent thread. Capellan, Spurling and Yost still piss me off.

[wibadgers23]

Capellan makes me sick. Send him to Helena. That's all I got for now.

[TheCouga23]

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Offical vent: This thread has 52 pages and the Offical silver lining thread has 5. Attention All: the brewers have been in first for months. Is this entire board full of downers?

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Yeah, I don't get it. My Tigers board had detractors last year, but nothing like this.

 

Both teams are very similar. Both had grown accustomed to losing for so long that it was hard to deal with the fact that the team is not only winning, but dominating. People don't want to believe that their team is good because they don't want to be let down when they (supposedly) inevitably collapse.

 

But Brewer fans need to get over it. The Brewers are dominant this year, and it's not because they are getting lucky. It's because they have a ton of talent. Lucky teams regress, talented teams do not. I was pretty confident before this season started that the Brewers were going to win the Central this year. Now I am in the category where I would be shocked if they didn't. It would take injuries and flukes of great proportion to turn the Brewers into a .500 team this year, and even with a .500 record, they might win the division.

 

They have 7 capable starters, decent bullpen depth, and above average backups at catcher and the outfield. And in the case of a long term injury to the IF, Hall could be moved out of center. And Counsell and Graffanino are still pretty decent for utility guys. They are definitely better than anyone the Cubs or the Cardinals have on the bench. And Turnbow is a far better setup guy than anyone else in the NL Central. The Cubs WISH they had Turnbow. So do the Cardinals. So do half the teams in the NL East.

[trwi7]

Again I'll say it.

 

Vent thread started March 8th.

 

Silver Lining thread started May 30th

 

Are you honestly wondering why the vent thread is longer than the Silver Lining thread?

[brewizard]

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Thus, my earlier call for an Irrational Exhuberance thread, which would balance the what this tread which is all too often an Irrational Despair thread.

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How about a rational exuberance thread?

 

Aren't the Brewers in first place in late June, two handfuls of games above five hundred?

 

I mean, yee haw!

[UeckerAddict]

I'm not a big vent thread guy, but I thought the vent thread was a place where people could post frustrations without the "why are you complaining?" responses.

[trwi7]

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I'm not a big vent thread guy, but I thought the vent thread was a place where people could post frustrations without the "why are you complaining?" responses.

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Exactly. Let the venters vent and the silver liners be silver liney...or something like that.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

Okay this is a vent not relating to the Brewers but it really annoys me. Sports talk radio hosts talking about things I don't care about. Gary and Cliff a little tip, most people don't care that Jon Kitna said the Lions will win 10 or more games this year.

[afeter]

Turnbow was booed off the Miller Park mound after losing the lead in the eighth inning and Spurling walked home the go-ahead run in the 11th.

 

I hate it when we boo our home players. It was a one run game.

[valpocrewsader]

KAZ MATSUI CAN SUCK IT.

[bucks2281]

Brian Fuentes pulled a Derrick Turnbow, tonight. Thanks man. Oh yeah, Kaz Matsui sucked too.

[Nearsighted Views]

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KAZ MATSUI CAN SUCK IT.

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Was totally baffled by this til I watched Sportscenter.

 

My vent is for the guard who stopped the fan--can't you be 2 steps later?

 

Seriously, though, that may have been the play of the year. I think you should be allowed to humiliate idiots who do stuff like that. Tar and feathering...whatever. My sincerest hat's off on one of the best tackles I've seen in a while.

[RU Rah Rah]

Are the Cubs really involved in more insane games than other teams, or do they just stand out more because of the extra media attention? Whatever the case, that game was wacky.