2007 Vent Thread, Part 6

[TooLiveBrew]

"By simply reminding everyone that Ned Yost does not pitch, play all four infield spots, all 3 outfield spots, and that he doesn't bat himself 1-9 every night."

 

And if you're willing to buy into this kind of blanket absolution, then the manager means nothing. In which case, let's get rid of Yost, and let Jenks be player/coach. Hey, we're a small market club, it never hurts to stretch our dollars.

What will you have from Yost, then, bashers? I certainly don't 'blanket' my opinion, as I blatantly mention one of my biggest gripes with him. What I don't, and won't, do, however, is blame someone for something over which he has no control. Talk about blanketing! You want to complain when he starts Mench v. RHPing? Fine. Or when Shouse is left in to face RH batters? Or when he leaves another starter in yet another inning too long? No complaints here. But when you get frustrated because the players are playing like crap, and then blame the guy who's done everything in his power lately to shake things up & try new guys & looks, that's just plain unfair & uninformed.

He's mixed up the lineup, bumping down guys for whom he's been criticized of giving free passes, and he even benched Hart on the spot last night after taking a flat, 90mph heater on the inner half for a called strike 3 (not to mention the frying-pan glove incident in CF). He's got Gross out there getting on base, Dillon turning in solid ABs at 2B (after losing his top two options at the position - obviously 'lost' Rickie to underperformance, but lost nonetheless), he's dropped Braun down since Ryan has stopped seeing the ball well, and has started to shorten his leash with pitchers (which I believe is long overdue, unfortunately).

 

Where the 'It's still all Yost's fault' crowd goes astray is to bash him for crappy defensive play like last night. He benched Hart, what do you want him to do - bench Braun & Gross, too, for throwaways? Or Braun for striking out a bunch & looking lost at the plate? Who do you suggest he play? Throw Counsell out there? A manager has only so many choices, and to be bluntly honest, Yost is simply not getting a fair shake from these latest critics. As I said before, if you have a tangible gripe (as in, matchups created, or something for which a manager is actually responsible), blast away, and I won't do anything but agree, most likely. But the notion that it's his fault that his players are slumping is ludicrous.

[RU Rah Rah]

Where the 'It's still all Yost's fault' crowd goes astray is to bash him for crappy defensive play like last night. He benched Hart, what do you want him to do - bench Braun & Gross, too, for throwaways? Or Braun for striking out a bunch & looking lost at the plate? Who do you suggest he play? Throw Counsell out there? A manager has only so many choices, and to be bluntly honest, Yost is simply not getting a fair shake from these latest critics. As I said before, if you have a tangible gripe (as in, matchups created, or something for which a manager is actually responsible), blast away, and I won't do anything but agree, most likely. But the notion that it's his fault that his players are slumping is ludicrous.

I didn't watch the game, so I might be wrong, but wasn't the team over-shifting Junior? And didn't that create an awkward coverage situation at second base? If so, Ned might have had some culpability, don't you think?

Here's the Journal Sentinel's account:

 

Expecting Griffey to pull the ball, the Brewers' infield was drastically shifted around to the right. When Griffey grounded to the left side, third baseman Ryan Braun fielded the ball and turned to throw to second for what he hoped would be a double play. When the play was over, there were no outs and two runs in.

Second baseman Joe Dillon was so far into the hole toward right he had no chance to get to the base. Instead, shortstop J.J. Hardy raced to try to take the throw as a moving target. Instead, the ball glanced off Hardy's glove and skipped into short right field.

[pebadger]

That may be a fair interpretation of the play, as far as it goes. But it is also eminently fair to say that Braun, as a big league third baseman, needs to make that play, at least in terms of getting one out if not turning two. It certainly wasn't an impossible predicament by any stretch of the imagination, and the error was not "caused" by the shift.

 

So if we leave it there, we can debate the strategy of the shift, at least insofar as it makes a mostly routine play a bit more difficult, though one within the confines of what should be expected from a big league defense. But then we add Gross' contribution to the mix . . .

 

It's at this point that a not uncommon error becomes an uncommon farce. If we want to place some portion of responsibility on Yost for the first part of the problem, I think that's fair (though I'd argue the portion is so small as to be inconsequential). But everything that matters that happened after the ball got past Hardy has to rest with the players.

 

I'm ceratinly not as big a Yost fans as I used to be (and I wasn't much enamored of him at any point), but much of what I hear in terms of Yost bashing recently seems to be nothing more than "we have to do something NOW" frustration.

[TooLiveBrew]

amen, pebadger. As I mentioned in my previous post, I think it's entirely fair to criticize Yost for something like putting the big (nee "Alien") shift on Junior. What's totally misguided is that the shift somehow caused two obscene throwaways. It's Hardy's job to cover 2B on a play such as that, and Braun's job to not to throw a screwball past his SS.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

Where the 'It's still all Yost's fault' crowd goes astray is to bash him for crappy defensive play like last night. He benched Hart, what do you want him to do - bench Braun & Gross, too, for throwaways? Or Braun for striking out a bunch & looking lost at the plate? Who do you suggest he play? Throw Counsell out there? A manager has only so many choices, and to be bluntly honest, Yost is simply not getting a fair shake from these latest critics. As I said before, if you have a tangible gripe (as in, matchups created, or something for which a manager is actually responsible), blast away, and I won't do anything but agree, most likely. But the notion that it's his fault that his players are slumping is ludicrous.

 

Benching isn't the only influence that a coaching staff has.

 

The concern is that the play is getting shoddier as the season goes along. Are the players listening to the coaches? Did we work on the fundamentals enough in Spring training? When we work in-season on the fundamentals, are we holding them to high enough standards? Are the coaches doing a good enough job of communicating their expectations?

 

I just don't think the players are excited to be at the ballpark. I have seen this before. What needed to be emphasized in the clubhouse is that we are in a pennant race, not that we are blowing one. I am not sure what we did there. What I do know is that it seems that every time we have this thing back on course, the bullpen gives one away. Our coaching staff has to except some of the blame for that. I knew back in May that our bullpen was throwing too many innings. I posted that. We looked like some of the Reds teams that got off to good starts in the last 10 years. If I can see it then they should see it. Also, why would we use Cordero this year exactly like how we used Turnbow last year, when Derrick gave out? We should have put Carlos in the rotation back in May or June. We should have brought up another lefty reliever during that time. We could play situations and maybe keep some of those early leads out of the save situation so that we didn't have to go to CV-DT-FC to finish.

 

Managers do have to except blame for bad play. They are responsible for creating the environment that leads to it.

[TooLiveBrew]

Benching isn't the only influence that a coaching staff has.

 

The concern is that the play is getting shoddier as the season goes along. Are the players listening to the coaches? Did we work on the fundamentals enough in Spring training? When we work in-season on the fundamentals, are we holding them to high enough standards? Are the coaches doing a good enough job of communicating their expectations?

 

I just don't think the players are excited to be at the ballpark. I have seen this before. What needed to be emphasized in the clubhouse is that we are in a pennant race, not that we are blowing one. I am not sure what we did there. What I do know is that it seems that every time we have this thing back on course, the bullpen gives one away. Our coaching staff has to except some of the blame for that. I knew back in May that our bullpen was throwing too many innings. I posted that. We looked like some of the Reds teams that got off to good starts in the last 10 years. If I can see it then they should see it. Also, why would we use Cordero this year exactly like how we used Turnbow last year, when Derrick gave out? We should have put Carlos in the rotation back in May or June. We should have brought up another lefty reliever during that time. We could play situations and maybe keep some of those early leads out of the save situation so that we didn't have to go to CV-DT-FC to finish.

 

Managers do have to except blame for bad play. They are responsible for creating the environment that leads to it.

1) I know benching isn't a manager's only course, which is why I mentioned more than just that

 

2) Fundamentals are the players' responsibility, not their coaches'. Coaches are there to put their players in good situations. This isn't Little League (even if last night looked it!). What good does communicating expectations do if your players can't make simple plays? Does our coaching staff really need to tell these grown adults to not throw balls away & to not swing at everything like Estrada? Again, that's on players, imho.

 

3) One reason why you may think this happens every time is precisely covered in your rhetoric ; "seems." Sure, when there's a game like last night, it seems like the Brewers don't belong in the pennant chase; it seems they do whatever 'every time.' Trouble is that we remember relief pitching blunders so clearly, because they're so agonizing. When Turnbow comes in & doesn't give up a baserunner or a run, it's more likely to be reacted to as, 'Well, that's what he's supposed to do!'

 

I don't understand your comment about how Cordero is being misused 'just like Turnbow' last year. He has not been anything like 2006 TBow, as he has continued to pitch effectively well beyond the ASB. Since that game (Jul. 10th), he's had only three outings in which he's given up a run (all 3 were blown saves). In the other combined 12 appearances, he's posted: 11 2/3 IP, 4 hits, 2 BBs, 17 Ks. I know your comment is on how he's been used, but I just fail to see what you mean.

 

Your gripe on matchups I fully understand, and it's disappointing that it took so long to get Parra (or whatever other LHRP) to the big club. Please do clarify what you mean about how we 'look like Cincy teams that got off to good starts the last 10 years.' I'm not insulting you here, it's just a vague statement - do you mean our pitching? or hitting? or team w-l record? Thanks!

[brewcrewnation]

I tging braun needs to go back to #3. Why would you change him when he was doing so well, look at what has happened since braun went to #4. ned get a clue.

[TooLiveBrew]

imho, Braun has been moved down to #4 due to the fact that he isn't seeing the ball well anymore (most likely bc teams have him scouted now), not that Ned has randomly moved him there, and he's just randomly not hitting as well anymore. I know his stats are still solid, but comparing his most recent few (8ish) games to what he'd done before, and watching him at the plate, it seems he's cooled/ing off.

 

Since Aug. 6th, he's had only 4 extra base hits, after piling them up like they're going out of style before then.

[crewcrazy]

Stupid Brewers, winning tonight so we have less to complain about. How are we supposed to have a vent thread if the Brewers win? Bums.

[trwi7]

I know this has nothing to do with baseball but it has to do with sports.

 

My vent is about all these experts who think they are actually giving an expert opinion that only they can come up with. Like in football. "If the defense stays healthy and they get solid production from their quarterback they could factor be a factor in the division." Gee ya think? So a team with a good, healthy defense and good QB play could be a factor? Shocking.

[brewers255]

I know this has nothing to do with baseball but it has to do with sports. My vent is about all these experts who think they are actually giving an expert opinion that only they can come up with. Like in football. "If the defense stays healthy and they get solid production from their quarterback they could factor be a factor in the division." Gee ya think? So a team with a good, healthy defense and good QB play could be a factor? Shocking. That's almost as bad has: When your waiting for the bus and someone comes and asks, "did the bus come yet? Well if it had come why would I be standing out here? Common sense questions drive me nuts.

[RU Rah Rah]

Stupid Brewers, winning tonight so we have less to complain about. How are we supposed to have a vent thread if the Brewers win? Bums.

I know! They don't even know how to consistently upset me!

Seriously, though -- it's refreshing to see a competent baseball game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FriarHouketh]

Now that we've finally slid out of first place, the question for the jury is - how long will it take us to either a.) get back in to first, or b.) implode massively and fall to third?

[PeaveyFury]

Do other teams routinely blow 3,4,5,6 to nothing leads as regularly as we do? It's just astounding to think about how horrible our staff has been.

[DirtyFranksBrewCrew]

Another Cappy start, another crappy start...I wonder if Ned has a little more leeway for him, it's only the season slipping away.....Oh yeah, great choice leaving Linebrink in after he loaded the bases too......man Yost sucks.

[razzzorsharp]

This is the way the season ends.

This is the way the season ends.

This is the way the season ends.

 

Not with a bang, but a whimper.

[SeriesFinale]

Same old story, same old song-and-dance

 

What an incredible disappointment this team is right now.

[adambr2]

Another blown 5 run lead.

 

16 straight losses when Capuano is starting.

 

A 1-5 homestand. But that's okay, it's not like we've got a tough 9 game road trip coming up.

 

Ned is as good as gone. This team may drop under .500 over the next week, and there is no, no reason a team as talented as the Brewers should be this bad.

[DougJones43]

And, here's another one...

 

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/4692/graphiv7.jpg

 

 

Unbelievable. Our pitching staff is pathetic. Seriously, how many times can this happen? It's beginning to defy logic. What a miserable homestand.

[brewmann04]

Ok Fire Ned and his whole staff.

Then melvin should look over this roster with mark and see what moved need to be made.
I also think it time for Melvin to feel the hot seat a bit.
But i can't blame the Manager or coachs for blowing this many 5 run leads.

[SeriesFinale]

Peace out, Nedley...you got us near the crest but you can't get us to the top

[AJAY]

This is like the movie Groundhog Day . . .

 

 

 

Hit some homeruns, get out to a big lead.

 

Starting pitcher falls apart in the 6th inning

 

Bullpen struggles

 

Can't get a clutch single when you need it

 

Brewers lose to a bad team.

 

Same thing the next day.

[Bruce Ciskie]

So, how many more incredibly stupid things is it going to take for management to get a clue?

 

I mean, Yost practically tried to lose this game. If I didn't think he was a pretty competitive guy, I might think he was trying to lose it. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[bklynbrewcrew]

How many games can this team choke away. This team has way too much talent to suck like this. There is something seriously wrong with this team. I am also sick and tired of hearing that they are young and not used to being in a pennant race. The veterans on this team are more at fault than the young guys. Suppan, Capuano, and Vargas are not rookies buy any stretch of the imagination yet they are constantly pitching lousy. The pitching staff as a whole has been absolutely horrible for months now. How much longer are some people gonna say that Suppan is a second half pitcher. Well the second half is well under way and he still sucks. The Linebrink aquisition is blowing up in our faces as well. Yost is an absolute dope letting him bat for himself in the seventh inning. I dont see any worse strategic managers in baseball than Yost. Its about time that he takes the fall for this teams underachieving ways. It was one thing when this team had little to no talent on the roster but this team is very very talented. I sit there watching these games knwing its only a matter of time before we find a way to screw things up. I am also tired of venting after every loss. I am just sapped of energy at this point. Maybe I will take a few days off because this isnt good for my health.

[Brian the Automator]

How many games can this team choke away.

One thing's for certain. We're going to find out.