2007 Vent Thread, Part 7

[TooLiveBrew]

Right in line with my first conscious thought this morning, FTJ. Capuano underperforms, so he's replaced. Vargas, same thing. Yet Yost continues to cost this team games, and he's still right there, as though nothing were wrong. His poor decision making, coupled with the bullpen's ineffectiveness (I love you SHOUSE!), have put so much pressure on the offense, it's no wonder they're up at the dish hacking for the long-ball so much. How big of a lead is enough for this team? Is 5 runs enough margin for error for the 'pen? Seriously - would it have to be more?

 

To hear Yost call Linebrink's bonehead error "bad luck" last night just tells you how disconnected he is. Was, on the whole, the fact that an easy play turned into another run and extended the inning (wherin yet another run scored) "bad luck"? Yes - absolutely. But to say that Linebrink didn't make the play due to "bad luck" is simply delusional. He didn't execute, and screwed the lead he'd come in to protect. There's nothing unlucky about that, nor is there anything unlucky about playing to Jaque Jones's strength, and having it hurt you.http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/mad.gif

 

The one thing I can tell you as a bright side, is that the Cubs have obviously worked out a deal with the devil. Satan is a Cubs fan http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/devil.gif

[Fatter than Joey]

Satan is a Cubs fan

 

Satan clearly is a BOS/NY fan who has acquired controlling interest in ESPN.

[sheethead]

Its not that Ned is single-handily losing the games, its the fact that his in game decisions are. Some of those decisions are justified by stats and such, but the bottom line is that none of his decisions are working out. It may not be completely his fault, but that is the way the cookie crumbles in his profession. Same with CEOs, Presidents, GMs and the such. They may not be overtly incompetent, but when the crap is drying on the fan and they can't find a way to clean it up you have to get someone who will.

 

I feel like pointing to Steve Bartman. All that dude did was catch a foul ball that may have otherwise landed on his head. Now he can't even live in Chicago anymore. This year, Ned Yost is the Brewer's Steve Bartman, the only difference is that Ned is getting paid for it.

[Brian the Automator]

Same with CEOs, Presidents, GMs and the such.

This is something I don't agree with. I'm not saying this is or isn't the case with Yost, but if you have an above-average manager with below-average talent, I want the above-average manager, because the alternative could very well worse, regardless is they're "responsible" for it from the traditional, managerial point of view.

 

I've got no problem with Attanasio or Melvin making the team better by making personnel changes, but just firing the guy because it's the "thing you're supposed to do" isn't a theory I would personally subscribe to.

[Baldkin]

Even Page 2 is getting on the 'crew

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/0829/direction300x.jpg

 

 

[TooLiveBrew]

Ow.

[Bruce Ciskie]

On the bright side, it should be a long time before we hear anything about Cordero being overworked.

[uecker9]

Yeah, and they're not leaving so many guys on base- 6,10,6,6,6- the last 5 games.

[sheethead]

Same with CEOs, Presidents, GMs and the such.

This is something I don't agree with. I'm not saying this is or isn't the case with Yost, but if you have an above-average manager with below-average talent, I want the above-average manager, because the alternative could very well worse, regardless is they're "responsible" for it from the traditional, managerial point of view.

 

I've got no problem with Attanasio or Melvin making the team better by making personnel changes, but just firing the guy because it's the "thing you're supposed to do" isn't a theory I would personally subscribe to.

 

I am not sure I understand your response, but with all do respect Brian, in the context I was trying to convey it is the right thing to do. He hasn't panned out, and its time to take the company in a different direction (other than down). In any results driven business, management is given to opportunity to produce results. If there are no results, especially after 5 years, then its time to make a switch. Ned shouldn't have to get caught soliciting sex in a bathroom in order to lose his job, all he has to do to lose his job is what he has done all season - and that is prove he isn't a very good manager. This team is/was plenty talented to take this division this year. All they needed was a little mojo from management. What they got instead was an em-battled manager with no huevos.

[Brian the Automator]

Same with CEOs, Presidents, GMs and the such.

This is something I don't agree with. I'm not saying this is or isn't the case with Yost, but if you have an above-average manager with below-average talent, I want the above-average manager, because the alternative could very well worse, regardless is they're "responsible" for it from the traditional, managerial point of view.

 

I've got no problem with Attanasio or Melvin making the team better by making personnel changes, but just firing the guy because it's the "thing you're supposed to do" isn't a theory I would personally subscribe to.

I am not sure I understand your response, but with all do respect Brian, in the context I was trying to convey it is the right thing to do. He hasn't panned out, and its time to take the company in a different direction (other than down). In any results driven business, management is given to opportunity to produce results. If there are no results, especially after 5 years, then its time to make a switch. Ned shouldn't have to get caught soliciting sex in a bathroom in order to lose his job, all he has to do to lose his job is what he has done all season - and that is prove he isn't a very good manager. This team is/was plenty talented to take this division this year. All they needed was a little mojo from management. What they got instead was an em-battled manager with no huevos.

My point is that you're operating under the assumption that is at the top of the food chain, and therefore should get the axe. I'm not saying he shouldn't, but the guy above him has been there for 5 years as well. If the criteria is 5 losing seasons, then why isn't all management given the heave-ho? Melvin, Ash, and Nichols would fall under those basic rules of business as well.

[sheethead]

My point is that you're operating under the assumption that is at the top of the food chain, and therefore should get the axe. I'm not saying he shouldn't, but the guy above him has been there for 5 years as well. If the criteria is 5 losing seasons, then why isn't all management given the heave-ho? Melvin, Ash, and Nichols would fall under those basic rules of business as well.

 

I agree with you for the most part. The only problem I have with placing onus on Melvin is that he has done his job well in those 5 years. I say this honestly because I look at the numerous trades and key hires he has made that did indeed improve the club. The talent level has increased each year, while the results have not. The only thing I would say Melvin has done poorly is not realizing sooner that Yost is not cut out for MLB managing. Its hard to fault him there, because Yost has been able to hide behind a .500 season and injuries the last two years. But this year his flaws are glowing fluorescent yellow and orange. The decision should be an easy one for him. Now its only a matter of timing. I may have went too high on the food chain when I mentioned CEO. I may have been better served saying Vice President of Operation/Finance. Someone who can't explain their spending or efficiency variance may get the axe before the higher ups on the food chain get theirs.

[Brian the Automator]

I agree with you for the most part. The only problem I have with placing onus on Melvin is that he has done his job well in those 5 years. I say this honestly because I look at the numerous trades and key hires he has made that did indeed improve the club. The talent level has increased each year, while the results have not. The only thing I would say Melvin has done poorly is not realizing sooner that Yost is not cut out for MLB managing. Its hard to fault him there, because Yost has been able to hide behind a .500 season and injuries the last two years. But this year his flaws are glowing fluorescent yellow and orange. The decision should be an easy one for him. Now its only a matter of timing. I may have went too high on the food chain when I mentioned CEO. I may have been better served saying Vice President of Operation/Finance. Someone who can't explain their spending or efficiency variance may get the axe before the higher ups on the food chain get theirs.

So what it boils down to is job performance should dictate a retain/fire status. That's something I can get on board with. I just have a problem with the "he's the guy overseeing it, so it's his fault" concept. I think there are some people in management positions that are dealt crappy hands, and shouldn't have to suffer for it.

[brewcrew00]

sheethead[/b]]

My point is that you're operating under the assumption that is at the top of the food chain, and therefore should get the axe. I'm not saying he shouldn't, but the guy above him has been there for 5 years as well. If the criteria is 5 losing seasons, then why isn't all management given the heave-ho? Melvin, Ash, and Nichols would fall under those basic rules of business as well.

I agree with you for the most part. The only problem I have with placing onus on Melvin is that he has done his job well in those 5 years. I say this honestly because I look at the numerous trades and key hires he has made that did indeed improve the club. The talent level has increased each year, while the results have not. The only thing I would say Melvin has done poorly is not realizing sooner that Yost is not cut out for MLB managing. Its hard to fault him there, because Yost has been able to hide behind a .500 season and injuries the last two years. But this year his flaws are glowing fluorescent yellow and orange. The decision should be an easy one for him. Now its only a matter of timing. I may have went too high on the food chain when I mentioned CEO. I may have been better served saying Vice President of Operation/Finance. Someone who can't explain their spending or efficiency variance may get the axe before the higher ups on the food chain get theirs.

 

I respectfully disagree, it seems pretty contradictory in itself. What is your basis for saying that Melvin has done his job well over the past 5 seasons? As far as I'm concerned, generally speaking, a Manager is an extension of the hiring GM. Melvin wouldn't have kept Ned on this long if he didn't believe Ned was the right guy for this job. I don't know what numerous trades and FA signings you are talking about, because the last time I checked, we were still watching Mench, Cappy, Vargas, Soup, Graffy, Counsell, David Bell etc... The rest of the young guys we can all thank Jack Z. for, not Melvin.

[RightFieldCoder]

A good analagy would be that the CEO is firing the VP of Operations to show he is moving in a different direction before the board of directors decides to get rid of the CEO. The question should be how many and which people under Yost are going to follow him.

[Fatter than Joey]

I say this honestly because I look at the numerous trades and key hires he has made that did indeed improve the club. The talent level has increased each year, while the results have not.

 

Melvin has improved the club -- but that may have happened more to MA getting onboard -- at the end of the day -- still haven't produced a winner.

[sheethead]

I say this honestly because I look at the numerous trades and key hires he has made that did indeed improve the club. The talent level has increased each year, while the results have not.

 

Melvin has improved the club -- but that may have happened more to MA getting onboard -- at the end of the day -- still haven't produced a winner.

But they were so close, its sad what has transpired. I hate for people to lose their jobs, but its going to happen.

 

As far as the trades:

 

- Mench was not the key acquisition in the Carlos Lee trade, but a nice throw in with Cordero - advantage Doug Melvin

- Cappy was part of the 5 player deal that involved Sexon, and until a year ago was productive. Not sure what happened after the '06 All Star game, but it wasn't good - still advantage Doug Melvin

- Soup most people thought was at the least a decent signing. Not awesome, but pretty solid. - Not sure if this was all Doug Melvin, but a good signing (better than Schmidt would have been)

- Counsell - not good Doug Melvin, but kind of necessary insurance

- Linebrink was not a bad deal at the time IMO. Hindsight shows otherwise, but I liked the trade at the time

- Vargas and Estrada for Davis was a good trade I think

- The Overbay trade was also decent

- I didn't have to watch David Bell for that long

- I think Melvin was handcuffed by division rivals this year with the waiver wire as the Cubs and Cards picked up pieces the Brewers couldn't due to win/loss records.

 

I don't think Melvin has made an overtly bad trade/signing as GM of the Brewers. I will have no problem defending Doug Melvin into next year, assuming he does something about the manager position.

[chowyo123]

Counsell is starting tonight. Yuck.

[Bruce Ciskie]

Counsell. Argh.

[HebrewHammer]

A lot of people didn't like the Linebrick trade at the time. I was a little suspect of it, reading that he hasn't been good at all this year. And for what we gave up. A solid #3 or #4 starter whose cheep is worth something to a team. As with the Suppan signing (which I thought and still think was decent), acquiring 3rd or 4th starters via FA can be VERY expensive.

[Ennder]

Linebrink was decent until about two weeks before we traded for him. Inman will be a #5 starter in the majors imo. I was ok with the deal though it wasn't a great one, the results in hindsight obviously haven't been very good so far. A lot will depend on the rest of the season and who we get when he walks next year.

[SeriesFinale]

Nothing says biggest game of the year like Craig Counsell in the lineup

[LUKE232323]

Nothing really to say that hasn't already been said. But I will say three things:

 

1. Tonight is a must win game. If you think we're making up 3.5 games in a month how we're playing, you're off your rocker.

2. Yost will be gone if we don't make the playoffs. To me, that's a 100% lead pipe lock. Mark A will have seen 130 games of inconsistent and really a majority of it garbage baseball, barring a turnaround.

3. If the Crew does not make the playoffs, this will easily go down as one of the top 10 collapses in baseball history.

[SeriesFinale]

3. If the Crew does not make the playoffs, this will easily go down as one of the top 10 collapses in baseball history.

Worst collapse in Brewers' history, no doubt...but I'd assume we're only in the high Top 25 for baseball history, if that.

[SeriesFinale]

Here are some real horror stories.

[LUKE232323]

Here are some real horror stories.

Those are bad, but we had bigger division leads than half of those teams. Granted, I know it's earlier in the season, but a 9 game lead is a 9 game lead.

 

Also, if you look at total games swing, (right now we are at -11.5), I would like to see where we'd rank once the season is over.