2007 Vent Thread, Part 7

[RyDogg66]

I dont want to create a thread about it because it will either get locked or I'll be mocked.

 

 

But any chance Melvin gets fired this offseason if the Brewers finish with something like 75 wins?

[Ennder]

http://forum.brewerfan.net/viewtopic.php?t=7602

 

That topic is about Melvin so I think you'd get better responses to the question in it. I would doubt Melvin gets fired, they'll blame it all on Yost and move on at this point. I'm guessing Melvin would get at least 2 more years before they start thinking he can't get them over the hump.

[DougJones43]

I'm guessing Melvin would get at least 2 more years before they start thinking he can't get them over the hump.

I think he only deserves one more year after this to get the Brewers over the hump. If they don't finish with at least 85 wins or so by 2008, time to change GM's. Six years is more than enough time, I don't care how bare the cupboard was when he started. Other teams have built, torn down, and rebuilt again in six years. Melvin did a nice job turning us from a laughing-stock into at least a real live Major League Baseball team, but that was accomplished in 2005. If his team isn't able to take the next step (playoff team) within three years of that time, it's just not good enough.

[Ennder]

I wouldn't think they would want to fire the GM after the 1st season under a new manager so I'm guessing it would be a two year window for him to get it done.

[RU Rah Rah]

The team is 10 games under .500 since Sheets last pitched. Once again, I think the season would be turning out differently if he were healthy.

[RyDogg66]

Yeah, they would be about 6 games under .500.... http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/eyes.gif

[brewers255]

So wait, everyone is blaming Yost for not pulling Bush? So if he were to pull Bush and put in Linebrink than he gives up the game everyone would be saying its Yost's fault for not leaving Bush in. I bet you if you were in Yost's shows that you would have left him in there. He was at 70 pitches was a cool 68 degrees, he gave up 4 hits in 6 innings. Why wouldn't you leave him in there? Right after Bush gave up the first hit the bullpen started to warm, than he struckout the guy so your just going to take him out after he strikes someone out? Than what happenes a home run, you can't blame Yost you blame Dave Bush, last time I remembered was that the PITCHER throws the ball not the manager. If Bush would have gotten out of that, no one would be complaining. It's just ridiculous how some brewer fans are blaming the manager for everything.

[Rob]

Why is no one venting about the fact that once again we had runners on 2nd and 3rd with less than one out and couldn't score? How about that we couldn't do anything with 3 extra outs today? Our offense is not performing well and that is not Ned Yost's fault. I thought I would at least try to steer the conversation away from Ned, at least until Monday when they don't score enough again and it's his fault again.

[SeriesFinale]

I've got a million vents after this saddest weekend of the year for me personally, but suffice it to say that Ned is absolutely not at fault today.

 

I guess my other vent is that my wife took a ton of really great photos of the team this weekend but no one around here--even me--wants to be reminded of it.

[jjfanec]

I understand that there are two-sides to the Bush thing, but it seems like everyone who is saying we should have left Bush in think all of us who think Bush should have been pulled are saying this in hindsight. This just isnt true. Yes Bush gave up only 2 runs and was low on pitches but he was coming up to bat the next inning and we had a very rested bullpen with a day off tomorrow. If Linebrink came in and did give up one run like he did we still would have been up by 1. The reality is there were numerous good reasons to pull Bush and after Bush pitched in the 6th the whole room of guys i was with were calling for the bullpen. The strategy behind it made a bunch of sense. I was venting about the decision right when i saw bush walk toward the plate to bat. even if it would have worked i still would have thought it was the wrong move.

[SeriesFinale]

This was Rodriguez's first home run of his career...tell me how Yost could have predicted this. Bush had a good pitch count, had just struck out Ortmeier, and the matchups were looking good. I'm not one to normally put sunshine on the Vent Thread's black parade, but come on.

[Ennder]

I understand that there are two-sides to the Bush thing, but it seems like everyone who is saying we should have left Bush in think all of us who think Bush should have been pulled are saying this in hindsight

 

Bush had given up 3 hits at that point, only one of them was hit hard at all. He was under 80 pitches, it was the bottom of the order. He does not have any history of struggling late in games for his career and for this season he hasn't had a problem since late May. So while yes your point that the bullpen was rested and could take over is valid the counterpoint is that Yost most certainly did not do anything wrong by leaving Bush in.

 

You can make a strong argument that using the bullpen is a good choice, but I don't see how anyone can make a good argument that leaving Bush in was a bad choice. The only way to make that argument is to use hindsight and point at the fact he gave up a 2 run HR to someone who had never hit a major league HR before. I just don't see how you can point at that decision and say that Yost is a bad manager because he left in Bush, that opinion makes absolutely no sense to me at all. I have NEVER in 20 years of watching baseball seen a manager pull an established starting pitcher at under 80 pitches with a 2 run lead and a 3 hitter going after 6 innings but to some in this crowd it proves Yost is a moron.

[jason21nl]

for what its worth, and probably not much. but I came into the chat, not knowing anything about what happened in the game. I said, hmm letting Bush hit for himself and pitch the 7th huh? Hawing said shhh don't jinx it. a few pitches later the game was tied. I thought using a pinch hitter for bush and trying to add on runs would have been the smarter way to go.

[Ennder]

for what its worth, and probably not much. but I came into the chat, not knowing anything about what happened in the game. I said, hmm letting Bush hit for himself and pitch the 7th huh? Hawing said shhh don't jinx it. a few pitches later the game was tied. I thought using a pinch hitter for bush and trying to add on runs would have been the smarter way to go.

 

That is a very valid opinion and I have no problem with it, the argument is that what Yost did isn't bad either, its a judgement call. If we replay this game 100 times I'm positive he hits a HR in less than 15% of them and gets him out at least 50% of the time and most likely more than that, if you want to blame someone for that inning you have to put the blame on Bush for not making his pitch and the C for hitting it out, I dont' see how you blame Yost.

[jason21nl]

I love to blame Yost for every little thing that goes wrong. On this one, letting bush go out there with a low PC was OK. Can't really blame yost for letting him go back out there since every other manager would have done the same thing. Having a hurting Hart out in the field came back to hurt us since he barley could throw the ball.

[treego]

All I want to know is this:

 

Why after fighting back from a 9-2 deficit to tie the game in the top of the 9th does a manager send Chris Spurling out to the mound to face the lefty and league MVP Justin Morneau to open up the bottom of the 9th.

 

That decision broke the camel's back for me. Ned has lost me for a long time, but that was incredibly dense.

 

Leaving Bush into face the Giants in the 7th is sheer genius in comparison to that managing gem at the Metrodome when Morneau predictably socked as easy a walkoff homerun as he'll ever have.

[SeriesFinale]

Point well taken, but that one had just about scabbed over...oof

[RU Rah Rah]

I love to blame Yost for every little thing that goes wrong. On this one, letting bush go out there with a low PC was OK. Can't really blame yost for letting him go back out there since every other manager would have done the same thing. Having a hurting Hart out in the field came back to hurt us since he barley could throw the ball.

That was my concern about the seventh inning. I can see the argument being made for leaving Bush in the game, given his pitch count and relative effectiveness, but it makes less sense when you think about: 1.) him having to bat and 2.) the team having traded away three prospects for Linebrink, who apparently was acquired for precisely this situation.

So you don't PH for Bush -- fair enough. But then you do PH for Gross and thereby put the team in a position where Corey has to be out there in RF?

 

I know that this is serious Monday-morning quarterbacking, but Ned makes it pretty easy.

[Bring Back the Stein]

Which of the pitchers on that squad still gets a pass? Shouse? Linebrink now is etched in the lore of this star-crossed season. Who is without sin? A lefty yet to be born? My God, it sucks that one part of the Brewers' game, say starting pitching or the top of the order, never seems to be enough to save the team from defeat. The team is exposed. Our hopes were all empty. And we who have waited so long will suffer some more. Maybe those jerks are on to something, maybe we should adopt the doofus position of Cubs fans and pretend that none of it matters and get to Yakzie's in time to get a good seat and drink pitchers of overpriced beer and pee our pants. Expect nothing and you'll never be disappointed. (I hope I get a chance to deny I ever said any of this, by the way.)

[sheetswannabe]

Milwaukee Brewers baseball, proud to be under-acheivers!

[brewmann04]

I fully expect this team to continue their Free Fall and would not be suprised to see the whole staff fired.

[panama74]

In the context of Bush's year long pattern, Yost's decision was idiotic. He was lucky to get out of the 6th. Leading off the 7th, it was the perfect time to try to get more runs and allow Bush to leave with a good taste by pinch hitting. Plenty of guys on the bench. Instead, with 2 outs and bases empty he pinch hits for Gross, arguably the Brewers best player for the past week and who had already made a tremendous catch earlier. Later, Estrada doesn't pinch hit for Miller against the right hander and, of course, Mench doesn't pinch hit for Jenkins against the lefty. Bush gets lit, Hart's injury gets exposed, game over. Ned has to go.

[Ennder]

In the context of Bush's year long pattern, Yost's decision was idiotic. He was lucky to get out of the 6th. Leading off the 7th, it was the perfect time to try to get more runs and allow Bush to leave with a good taste by pinch hitting

 

The problem is its not a year long pattern. Bush hasn't blown a game in the 6th or 7th since the first week in June and that was a walk and two singles followed by a bullpen meltdown. You have to go back to May until he really had a bad 7th inning. He gave up a 2 run HR and everyone suddenly remembers April and May and say he now has a pattern of falling apart even though those are the only two months in his entire career that he struggled late in games, its just silly.

[PKBadger]

Really, Ned? You couldn't let Suppan pitch to 1 more batter? He only threw 82 pitches!

 

Ah, well. He's getting fired in a month anyway.

[LUKE232323]

Only have to watch this team for two more games, most likely. Thank the lord above.