2007 Vent Thread, Part 7

[milwaukeesportsfan]

Ned Yost has no control of his team. I'm pretty sure the reason Dave Bush stayed in the game long enough to give up a 3-run lead is because between innings, Yost asked Bush if it would be okay with him if he could take him out of the game if he got into any trouble, and Bush told Yost, "No."

 

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Continued from:

 

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Original Lead:

 

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=382

[RU Rah Rah]

I haven't followed every inning of the past two games, so I might be missing something here, but why did Billy pinch hit for Gross? (And hasn't that happened two games in a row -- the PH'ing for Gross, I mean?) I'm just trying to think about how that game-winning hit might have turned out if we had an able-armed RF out there.

[Ennder]

Ned Yost has no control of his team. I'm pretty sure the reason Dave Bush stayed in the game long enough to give up a 3-run lead is because between innings, Yost asked Bush if it would be okay with him if he could take him out of the game if he got into any trouble, and Bush told Yost, "No."

You won't be able to find a manager in baseball that would have replaced Bush the way he was pitching and with his pitch count. I know its the vent thread but give me a break, I'm so tired of all the posts blaming every single loss on what move was or wasn't made. We lost the game because we failed to score runs outside of a 3 run HR, because our defense missed some key plays and because Bush caught too much of the plate with one pitch, not because Yost left a pitcher who was cruising and at 70 pitches stay in the game to face the bottom of the order.

 

Having said that I still think Yost needs to go at the end of the year if we don't end up with a winning record. I defend him because he's not as bad as people try to make him out to be but I don't raelly see much good about him either. The one good thing about him is supposed to be that he motivates the players to play better but I'm just not seeing that.

[Mr QL]

I want to hear some nice "Fire Yost" chants next home stand.

[Baldkin]

I haven't followed every inning of the past two games, so I might be missing something here, but why did Billy pinch hit for Gross? (And hasn't that happened two games in a row -- the PH'ing for Gross, I mean?) I'm just trying to think about how that game-winning hit might have turned out if we had an able-armed RF out there.

There was a lefty on the mound, Gross can't hit lefties, and Billy kills 'em.

 

 

[moofnelson]

I'm starting to think that the Brewers have a keg in the dugout and that by the time the 4th inning rolls around they are all to buzzed up to play baseball anymore. After watching their at-bats in the 6th inning last night against that "89-mph-straight-as-a-string-right-down-the-middle-of-the-plate-fastball" bum the Giants rolled out there, I can only assume this team was drunk. Getting shut out for the last 6 innings of a game is an all to often occurence for this team. It must be the beer.

I think today's keg was MGD.

[milwaukeesportsfan]

Pitch counts mean nothing. Bush cannot make it through a lineup three times. He was not born with that gene. Also there's the fact that we had a completely rested bullpen that should have been more than capable of holding a two run lead.

[Ennder]

Pitch counts mean nothing. Bush cannot make it through a lineup three times. He was not born with that gene. Also there's the fact that we had a completely rested bullpen that should have been more than capable of holding a two run lead.

 

In 2006 he had a .649 OPS against the 3rd time through the order, in 2005 he had a .588 OPS against the 3rd time through the order. For his career he's at a .756 OPS against 3rd time through the order vs .744 OPS against total. Seems he must have lost the gene somewhere. When you reduce a stat to a 200 PA sample you aren't going to get meaningful data, Bush has been bad the 3rd time through this year but its not something he has shown a long term problem with and its most likely just variance.

 

No manager in baseball takes him out there, not one. I have never seen a manager take out any full time starting pitcher after giving up just 2 runs on 3 hits at a 70 pitch count, especially with the bottom part of a weak order due up. I don't care how good or bad the pitcher is.

[trwi7]

There was a lefty on the mound, Gross can't hit lefties, and Billy kills 'em

 

Bill Hall's OPS this year vs lefties is lower than his OPS all year last year. And that's my vent, Bill Hall you completely suck.

[pebadger]

Am I completely offbase in thinking that Jeff Cirillo, who just worked Howry for an 8-pitch, 2-out walk, would have been worth his weight in gold to this team this season (an not primarliy for his on field performance)?

[moofnelson]

Why does Ennder spend his days debunking everyone's vents?

[Ennder]

Why does Ennder spend his days debunking everyone's vents?

Sorry, I can't help it. When I see a post that is based on fuzzy facts/logic I can't help myself but to respond to it and I'm bored at work. Unfortunately a good 50% of useful posts discussing the team are in this thread now since the team gives so many good reasons to vent at them.

[DougJones43]

Francisco Cordero has pitched a grand total of 2 innings during the past 15 days. I guess it makes sense for a team who is routinely blowing leads to use their best pitcher extremely sparingly.

[Ennder]

At least the Cubs lost too...

 

I'm pretty sick of that being the highlight of my day, only being as bad as the Cubs.

[moofnelson]

Why does Ennder spend his days debunking everyone's vents?

Sorry, I can't help it. When I see a post that is based on fuzzy facts/logic I can't help myself but to respond to it and I'm bored at work. Unfortunately a good 50% of useful posts discussing the team are in this thread now since the team gives so many good reasons to vent at them.

 

Point taken.

[milwaukeesportsfan]

There is more to managing that what the stats tell you. A good manager sometimes has to go on a gut feeling. I think that after as many meltdowns as Bush has had this year come the 6th inning, his leash should be very short. You won't find a better candidate for "five and dive" pitcher of the year than Dave Bush.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

The Brewers recent play has diminished my will to live.

[Ennder]

There is more to managing that what the stats tell you. A good manager sometimes has to go on a gut feeling. I think that after as many meltdowns as Bush has had this year come the 6th inning, his leash should be very short. You won't find a better candidate for "five and dive" pitcher of the year than Dave Bush.

 

He pitched fine in the 7th on August 16th

He pitched fine in the 6th on August 10th

He pitched fine in the 6th on July 21st

He pitched fine in the 6th on July 16th

He pitched fine in the 7th on July 6th

He pitched fine in the 7th on June 23rd

 

Etc, etc. In fact you have to go all the way back to June 4th to find a game where he melted down in the 6th or 7th inning. He's been yanked after giving up a hit a couple times when he was right up around his pitch count. There is absolutely no reason that Yost should have pulled him there. Just because he gave up a string of big innings in the 6th/7th/8th back in April/May does not mean you have to yank him at 70 pitches in the 7th.

[lumberrule]

UW football starts this Saturday. Watch a good team with talent actually back it up on the field of play, and watch a coaching staff that knows what its doing.

 

Just for those of you looking for alternatives to this circus act called the Milwaukee Brewers....

[Fike85]

What's really sad is that this team has REGRESSED since the end of 2005.

[gregmag]

Boy, I sure am glad we gave up our best trading chip and gutted our minor league pitching depth for Scott Linebrink. He has really made a difference in our bullpen. I hope we trade more prospects for declining middle relievers. Maybe we can even get a younger guy on the rise -- I wonder what it would take to pry Joe Thatcher away from the Padres.

Greg.

[milwaukeesportsfan]

We had Linebrink and Shouse ready, and they both had plenty of rest. The odds of one of those pitchers grooving one to a guy who hasn't hit a homerun all season are a lot lower than Bush's. Bush simply cannot be trusted to keep a lead late in the game.

[jjfanec]

my reason that he should have taken bust out was because he had been hit hard the inning before and he was coming up to bat to start the next inning. I know a lot of people will say it is because of his inability late in games but i think it was a pure strategy move. You pinch hit dillion for bush so you can try to pad the lead. then you go to linebrink the guy we traded for so our 8th and 9th inning guys get a chance. This isnt hindsight either. I was in a room with 6 fans watching the game and after bush pitched out of the 6th we all said the same thing. maybe most managers wouldnt do it but i think today it made a ton of sense

[TooLiveBrew]

my reason that he should have taken bust out was because he had been hit hard the inning before and he was coming up to bat to start the next inning. I know a lot of people will say it is because of his inability late in games but i think it was a pure strategy move. You pinch hit dillion for bush so you can try to pad the lead. then you go to linebrink the guy we traded for so our 8th and 9th inning guys get a chance. This isnt hindsight either. I was in a room with 6 fans watching the game and after bush pitched out of the 6th we all said the same thing. maybe most managers wouldnt do it but i think today it made a ton of sense

Amen, jjfan. I, too, made the same comment when I saw that Bush was actually coming to the plate. Problem here, is that most good managers would do it, because they have working eyes and memory banks, and they'd recall, "Oh yea, once Bush is tiring, it's time to take him out, otherwise he leaves stuff over the plate - like nearly every other pitcher."

But then those managers would have jobs in 2008.

 

[Bruce Ciskie]

my reason that he should have taken bust out was because he had been hit hard the inning before and he was coming up to bat to start the next inning. I know a lot of people will say it is because of his inability late in games but i think it was a pure strategy move. You pinch hit dillion for bush so you can try to pad the lead. then you go to linebrink the guy we traded for so our 8th and 9th inning guys get a chance. This isnt hindsight either. I was in a room with 6 fans watching the game and after bush pitched out of the 6th we all said the same thing. maybe most managers wouldnt do it but i think today it made a ton of sense

 

Oh, come on. That ball wasn't hit very hard. It only went off the wall in one of the deepest parts of that park.