2007 Vent Thread, Part 8

[SeriesFinale]

I'd feel much, much, much better giving Wise, McClung or Cappy the ball with a one-run lead on the road in the last half-inning against the bottom of the order than I would/did about Cordero watching any of them from the bench while the game is tied in the same situation but with the heart of the order up.

[Yaz]

Good you all left me my vent intact. Can I ask if Ned is going to allow Bush to hit for himself than why bring a new pitcher in the next inning? Furthermore, why didn't Ned put a pinch-runner on 1st for Bush if HE WAS PLANNING on REPLACING Bush in the bottom half of the inning?!!!! Mel Stocker must have been looking over at Ned after Bush singled. Anyone except perhaps our 2 catchers would have scored on that gapper by Dillon. Too bad.

 

Another stinker of a loss. And these types of losses are no longer acceptable at this time of the year. It's just a shame. :-(

 

MATT WISE?????!!!!!!!!!!!!

[trwi7]

Good you all left me my vent intact. Can I ask if Ned is going to allow Bush to hit for himself than why bring a new pitcher in the next inning? Furthermore, why didn't Ned put a pinch-runner on 1st for Bush if HE WAS PLANNING on REPLACING Bush in the bottom half of the inning?!!!!

He said Bush was "gassed" after running from 1st to 3rd. Maybe he thought nobody would get a hit after Bush so he wouldn't need to be replaced.http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/eyes.gif

[Schlitz001]

[trwi7]

 

Now push, keep pushing I see the head! Oh wait this should probably go in Russ' thread on the OT board.

[adambr2]

I agree with Yaz. We were Yosted once again, as much as the apoligists want to say otherwise, why would you do it??? Why would you leave Bush on 1st base when you know he's not staying in the game anyway??? Does Bush have some kind of blazing speed that we were never informed about??? Because if not, we should have been up 5-4 going into the bottom of the 9th.

 

Face it, Yost was caught with his head in the clouds in the 7th inning, I just don't know another reason to explain it.

[TooLiveBrew]

Flow-of-the-game splits, duuuuuuuh! Why don't you put a couch in the dugout! To be honest, at this point, I'd rather have that than this guy.

[Nearsighted Views]

Maybe I'm missing something but in the game log, it looks like he brought Turnbow in with runners on. Did that happen and nobody is talking about it? I would think that would be a hot topic today.

[Bruce Ciskie]

Maybe I'm missing something but in the game log, it looks like he brought Turnbow in with runners on. Did that happen and nobody is talking about it? I would think that would be a hot topic today.

 

It wasn't even the second-dumbest thing Ned did last night.

 

And that's saying something for his other moves.

[giffted1]

I agree with Yaz. We were Yosted once again, as much as the apoligists want to say otherwise, why would you do it??? Why would you leave Bush on 1st base when you know he's not staying in the game anyway??? Does Bush have some kind of blazing speed that we were never informed about??? Because if not, we should have been up 5-4 going into the bottom of the 9th.

 

Face it, Yost was caught with his head in the clouds in the 7th inning, I just don't know another reason to explain it.

It pretty simple when you think about it. Yost wanted Bush to pitch in the bottom of the seventh, so had him bat in the top of the inning. Bush gets a hit, he's on first, and he's still probably going to pitch in the bottom of the inning. Once Bush had to run from first to third he was winded, so Linebrink comes in. You can say in hingsight "he should have used a pinch runner", but if the pinch runner had been stranded at first Yost would be criticized for wasting a pinch runner and going to our crappy pen too early.

 

I'd love it if we could get a manager that could tell the future. If Yost is fired and this next guy can't tell the future are you guys going to tear him to shreds too?

[endaround]

Ohh there were so many stupid Yostian things last night. Like how he just didn't take out Braun in the 8th, he took out Dillon as well. Why was this bad? It meant he couldn't pinch hit for Counsell to lead off the 9th inning because he ran out of suitable 3B players.

[IIAY]

I have been able to refrain from posting in this thread all year. I have also stayed away from any threads discussing Ned Yost (mostly because I think he does a decent job, which is not a very popular opinion). However, someone needs to take his "book" and smack him upside the head with it.

 

When you are tied for the division lead with 12 games left, and you have an extra inning game on the road, it is absolutely inexcusable to lose the game without having your all-star closer make an appearance, especially when he has had two days off. I could write more, but I am too frustrated to type anything that would make sense.

[sheethead]

It pretty simple when you think about it. Yost wanted Bush to pitch in the bottom of the seventh, so had him bat in the top of the inning. Bush gets a hit, he's on first, and he's still probably going to pitch in the bottom of the inning. Once Bush had to run from first to third he was winded, so Linebrink comes in. You can say in hingsight "he should have used a pinch runner", but if the pinch runner had been stranded at first Yost would be criticized for wasting a pinch runner and going to our crappy pen too early.

 

Simple indeed. So either Yost was banking on a HR, or Bush being stranded on first. Any other situation would require Bush to run, therefore getting him out of the game. I see, good strategy. Bulletin: when you are on first base, chances are you will have to run in order to advance and/or score.

[Patrick425]

Since last night, I have mostly just been reading all the rants in this thread and others. Didn't feel the need to post because all the other posts seem to be summing up my frustrations pretty well. Although, like someone else posted, I can't believe there is not more talk about Turnbow coming in with guys on base....this should never happen.

 

Last night was typical. Brewer blow a lead, Cubs come back and win another 1 run game. How many one run games have the Cubs won in the last month or so? I'm sure it's at least 5...to lazy to look it up right now. Unfortunatly, that's what good teams do. They win close games down the stretch. If you are in a penant race, you can not let a game like last night slip away. Just can't be done.

[sgtcluels]

Cubs were gifted that win last night! Dunn had the ball!

[biedergb]

"I'd love it if we could get a manager that could tell the future. If Yost is fired and this next guy can't tell the future are you guys going to tear him to shreds too? "

 

 

It is more than just venting and tearing one to shreds when week after week questionable moves are made (or not made) in the game, and these exact moves are repeatedly discussed (real time, before the outcome is known) in the IGT, and the move or non-move that the manager chose did not result in success and/or the posters predictions/fears actually come true.

But while no one appears to have ESP on this board (we didn't see Weeks' pth inning HR coming), and no one is 100%, I'd venture to guess that the posters on this group unfortunately predicted a bad outcome > 3/4 of the time. (Consider that an average good move should about 25-30% successful for the hitter, and 75-80% succesful for the pitcher). Now please don't nitpick numbers here, it's just a vent thread, and that's what I'm doing (venting). I'm just trying to figure out why Nedly doesn't see the same game/players we are all watching? I mean when the opposing team's radio announcers are questioning decisions that adds some weight to the argument.

[dpapo]

I have not been a Yost supporter, but over the past few weeks, I've tried to step back and just let the season play out and hope for the best. Last nights decision to bring in Wise was not very smart, to be kind. But, this rant is for Drew Olson, who is in full defend and protect Ned Yost no matter what mode so far this morning.

Bill Johnson made the comment that he may have put in Cordero in that situation last night instead of Wise. Drew Olson then went into full protect Ned Yost mode. Going on about how people should be mad at Linebrink and the bullpen for letting the game get to that point, bla, bla, bla... Basically blame anyone but Yost, even though of course Yost was the one making the final decisions on who to put in and why. Then he had to really start reaching to defend Yost by saying, "What other options that he (Yost) have" (other than bring in Wise). No other options!!! How many people do the Brewers have in their bullpen, including some guy name Cordero. Bill Johnson, who also a big Yost defender, said okay, that's all true, be mad at those players, but now at that point of the game, I would have brought in Codero instead of Wise. And Olson just continued to try to defend Yost, agh!!!!

Then Dan was critical of taking out Bush when he did because he was, "gassed" from having to run from 1st to 3rd and making some of the same points people here have made about that. Bill and Drew Olson then went on to defend taking Bush out of the game at that time. I mean, he was sooooo gassed from having to run from 1st to 3rd, he couldn't put him back in. Cmon, no other pitcher in the history of baseball has had to run the bases and then come in and pitch the next inning.

Okay, just had to get that rant out. Thank you. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[stoutdude04]

You worry about that when Cordero can't pitch anymore. However if you keep trotting out Spurling, Stetter, Wise etc. without using your best option, you're going to get burned. Also what a lot of people seem to forget is you actually have to shut the other team down if you want to get to the save situation so why not go with your best pitcher to shut them down. One thing's for sure I'd feel much more comfortable with Spurling, Stetter, King, Aquino, Wise etc. in the game with a lead knowing we can give up at least one run and not lose than bringing them in with the game tied knowing if they give up a run the game is over with our best reliever still sitting in the bullpen.

 

Point well taken. I do agree about the save being silly. I just dont feel comfortable with anyone besides CoCo and Shouse. You are right, gotta get there first.

[endaround]

I don't doubt Bush was gassed. Keep in mind it was Texas and hot. That said Yost couldn't possible foresee Dillon hitting a double even though thats all he ahs been hitting lately....

[biedergb]

All the point above used to defend Yost were in essence due to Yost's decisions. OK let Bush hit and run for himself. If you thought that you would maybe take him out of the game, then do it there. If Yost was hoping Dave would strike out and sit in the dugout to rest, then he's not managing the game to win. It's not like he's Jake Peavy or was no-hitting the 'Stros. Plus the meat of the line-up was due up. So you're either going one way or the other.

Then the bullpen not holding the lead -- well it was a one run lead, and the offense was showing up. But that gets back to Yost -- he took out Braun and Counsell (reportedly I did not see the play, but based on descriptions) made a play with a weak throw. Then lets Shouse walk a switch hitter who hits mostly from the left, to bring in T-bow to face Lee with runners on and the day after he pitched an inning. OK the bullpen blew the lead, but you set players up to fail, and more often they do.

And no one in the pen, of course Cordero is there, and what about Burger King instead of Stetter? That's Yost's decision right there. He had better options, but chose not to use them.

Sorry - really need to vent some more. Just irritated about these games.

[Bruce Ciskie]

If your only defense of Yost is to tell people to stop second-guessing him, then you're out of actual defenses for the idiot.

[giffted1]

It pretty simple when you think about it. Yost wanted Bush to pitch in the bottom of the seventh, so had him bat in the top of the inning. Bush gets a hit, he's on first, and he's still probably going to pitch in the bottom of the inning. Once Bush had to run from first to third he was winded, so Linebrink comes in. You can say in hingsight "he should have used a pinch runner", but if the pinch runner had been stranded at first Yost would be criticized for wasting a pinch runner and going to our crappy pen too early.

 

Simple indeed. So either Yost was banking on a HR, or Bush being stranded on first. Any other situation would require Bush to run, therefore getting him out of the game. I see, good strategy. Bulletin: when you are on first base, chances are you will have to run in order to advance and/or score.

Of course you're going to need to run the bases to score. My point is that Yost couldn't have possibly known that Dave was going to run the bases. Bulletin: the odds of Bush being stranded and being able to pitch next inning were higher that Bush having to round the bases. When you add the unreliability of our bullpen, trying to get as much out of Bush as possible wasn't a bad idea.

[Fatter than Joey]

My point is that Yost couldn't have possibly known that Dave was going to run the bases.

 

????

 

Unless you are saying that Yost is too stupid to comprehend that a batter like Dillon hitting after Bush would force him to run?

[Bruce Ciskie]

Of course you're going to need to run the bases to score. My point is that Yost couldn't have possibly known that Dave was going to run the bases. Bulletin: the odds of Bush being stranded and being able to pitch next inning were higher that Bush having to round the bases. When you add the unreliability of our bullpen, trying to get as much out of Bush as possible wasn't a bad idea.

 

I see Ned's not the only one who doesn't think the top of our order can hit for a crap.

 

Of course, Ned controls the top of the order, so if he doesn't think they can hit for a crap, he should probably put the order together differently.

[giffted1]

My point is that Yost couldn't have possibly known that Dave was going to run the bases.

 

????

 

Unless you are saying that Yost is too stupid to comprehend that a batter like Dillon hitting after Bush would force him to run?

I'm saying that Yost is smart enough to realize that the odds were that Dillon wasn't going to get a hit. Chances are that Bush wouldn't need to run. Playing the odds isn't exactly stupid.