40-man roster discussion

[HiAndTight]

My money is on either Zarraga to the open 40-man spot, or something's going to happen in a trade. None of the guys in triple-a that aren't on the 40-man are dominating with the bat.. There's not really any pitchers that aren't on the 40-man that I would imagine them adding.. Cravy's fresh on the DL and he looked like the most viable pitcher that wasn't on the 40-man already...I'm intrigued by Zarraga yes, but I wouldn't mind seeing a block-buster trade soon.

 

I know this is a bit old, but how about Jeffress! He's been dominating.

[djoctagone]

I know this is a bit old, but how about Jeffress! He's been dominating.

because jeffress is not currently on a 40-man roster, he is subject to discipline should he test positive for marijuana, and one more positive test would mean a lifetime ban.

 

to his credit, he's been in the brewers' organization on a minor league contract for nearly three months and hasn't tested positive for marijuana during that time (to our knowledge).

[Outlander]

I know this is a bit old, but how about Jeffress! He's been dominating.

because jeffress is not currently on a 40-man roster, he is subject to discipline should he test positive for marijuana, and one more positive test would mean a lifetime ban.

 

to his credit, he's been in the brewers' organization on a minor league contract for nearly three months and hasn't tested positive for marijuana during that time (to our knowledge).

To me none of that really matters too much in regards to bringing him up. There are guys on the 40 man that they could take off and it wouldn't impact much at all and the marijuana thing is a reason to add him to the major league roster so he doesn't test positive.

[Baldkin]

I know this is a bit old, but how about Jeffress! He's been dominating.

because jeffress is not currently on a 40-man roster, he is subject to discipline should he test positive for marijuana, and one more positive test would mean a lifetime ban.

 

to his credit, he's been in the brewers' organization on a minor league contract for nearly three months and hasn't tested positive for marijuana during that time (to our knowledge).

 

The reason Jeffress smoked (epilepsy) has been diagnosed and he is now on actual & correct medication and no longer self medicating with marijuana.

 

http://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/2013/09/06/blue_jays_jeremy_jeffress_turns_corner_after_epilepsy_diagnosis.html

[djoctagone]

with wei-chung wang on the disabled list, he still remains on the 40-man roster. he has already met a minimum of 90 days on the active 25-man roster, so the brewers were able to place him on the disabled list and not risk losing him.

 

if the brewers have hopes of making the postseason, it's probably in their best interests to not activate wang until 1 september (or later, when rosters can expand to 40).

 

the 25-man roster that the team has on 31 august (plus any players on the disabled list) are the players they get to choose from for each round of the postseason roster.

 

wang can be activated from the 15-day disabled list as early as 26 july, or placed on a 30-day minor league rehab assignment, from which he could be activated as early as 25 august. if the brewers can just wait another week before starting his rehab assignment (which would give him regular experience against more evenly matched competition), they can activate him on 1 september (or later) and choose from other players for their postseason roster.

 

bottom line, the brewers should not want wang on their 25-man roster on 31 august. if he is active on 31 august, they better hope that there is a quality replacement on the disabled list expected to return to full strength in september and beyond.

[logan82]

with wei-chung wang on the disabled list, he still remains on the 40-man roster. he has already met a minimum of 90 days on the active 25-man roster, so the brewers were able to place him on the disabled list and not risk losing him.

They wouldn't have lost him at any time if they place him on the DL. It was a matter of having enough time on the roster so they could use options to send him to the minors.

[djoctagone]

They wouldn't have lost (Wang) at any time if they place him on the DL. It was a matter of having enough time on the roster so they could use options to send him to the minors.

a rule 5 draft pick must be on the active roster for at least 90 days for a team to retain his rights. wang achieved that in early july.

 

wang has no minor league options this year (unless a trade is worked out by the pirates). if he remains on the brewers 40-man through spring training 2015, he will have three minor league options.

 

but as outlined above, the brewers can send wang to the minors on a 30-day rehab assignment after his fifteenth day on the disabled list. he would still be earning major league service time and major league pay, and the brewers would still retain his rights.

[logan82]

They wouldn't have lost (Wang) at any time if they place him on the DL. It was a matter of having enough time on the roster so they could use options to send him to the minors.

a rule 5 draft pick must be on the active roster for at least 90 days for a team to retain his rights. wang achieved that in early july.

 

wang has no minor league options this year (unless a trade is worked out by the pirates). if he remains on the brewers 40-man through spring training 2015, he will have three minor league options.

 

but as outlined above, the brewers can send wang to the minors on a 30-day rehab assignment after his fifteenth day on the disabled list. he would still be earning major league service time and major league pay, and the brewers would still retain his rights.

Yes to retain his rights they have to have him on the roster for 90 days. That doesn't mean in one season.

[HiAndTight]

I know this is a bit old, but how about Jeffress! He's been dominating.

because jeffress is not currently on a 40-man roster, he is subject to discipline should he test positive for marijuana, and one more positive test would mean a lifetime ban.

 

to his credit, he's been in the brewers' organization on a minor league contract for nearly three months and hasn't tested positive for marijuana during that time (to our knowledge).

 

 

There are a litany of options to open up a 40 man spot on the roster should the Brewers feel the need one, and it seems like they could use a guy who throws 98 MPH out of the pen and is dominating AAA right now AND is a RH'ed reliever.

 

And it doesn't matter if he's one positive test away from a lifetime ban if the Brewers either called him up or added him to the big league roster.

[HiAndTight]

They wouldn't have lost (Wang) at any time if they place him on the DL. It was a matter of having enough time on the roster so they could use options to send him to the minors.

a rule 5 draft pick must be on the active roster for at least 90 days for a team to retain his rights. wang achieved that in early july.

 

wang has no minor league options this year (unless a trade is worked out by the pirates). if he remains on the brewers 40-man through spring training 2015, he will have three minor league options.

 

but as outlined above, the brewers can send wang to the minors on a 30-day rehab assignment after his fifteenth day on the disabled list. he would still be earning major league service time and major league pay, and the brewers would still retain his rights.

 

 

 

Right, but this what Logan was referring to.

with wei-chung wang on the disabled list, he still remains on the 40-man roster. he has already met a minimum of 90 days on the active 25-man roster, so the brewers were able to place him on the disabled list and not risk losing him.

 

 

They could have put him on the DL on opening day and not risked losing him. They could have put him on after 30-50 days or at any time prior to 90 days without risking losing him. The only difference is now they can put him on the DL and send him down to the minors and not concern themselves with putting him back on the 25 man roster the rest of the year while still controlling his rights next year(and for the following 9 years potentially).

[djoctagone]

The only difference is now they can put him on the DL and send him down to the minors and not concern themselves with putting him back on the 25 man roster the rest of the year while still controlling his rights next year(and for the following 9 years potentially).

the brewers can only send wang to the minors on a rehab assignment after his 15 days on the disabled list are up (if he's healthy enough to start rehab). they cannot option him to the minors. i outlined the dates he is eligble to start and complete a minor league rehab assignment in a previous post.

[HiAndTight]

The only difference is now they can put him on the DL and send him down to the minors and not concern themselves with putting him back on the 25 man roster the rest of the year while still controlling his rights next year(and for the following 9 years potentially).

the brewers can only send wang to the minors on a rehab assignment after his 15 days on the disabled list are up (if he's healthy enough to start rehab). they cannot option him to the minors. i outlined the dates he is eligble to start and complete a minor league rehab assignment in a previous post.

 

 

Yes, I think we all understand this. I didn't look at your dates, but the math should be pretty simple. They send him down for 15 days. If they so choose, they can then keep him in the minors for 30 days.

 

 

The point is he didn't have to have 90 days of service time before the Brewers could put him on the DL. They could have put him on the DL(and had him pitch in the minors on a rehab stint) at any time.

[djoctagone]

Yes, I think we all understand this. I didn't look at your dates, but the math should be pretty simple. They send him down for 15 days. If they so choose, they can then keep him in the minors for 30 days.

 

The point is he didn't have to have 90 days of service time before the Brewers could put him on the DL. They could have put him on the DL(and had him pitch in the minors on a rehab stint) at any time.

by "send" wang down, i believe you mean shut wang down--that's what the disabled list does. he hasn't been sent down to the minors.

 

and you are correct, the brewers could've put wang on the disabled list at any point this season with an injury, but in order to retain his rights, they'd have to ensure that he accrued 90 days of service time on the 25-man roster.

 

the timetable to return from an injury is never certain. had wang suffered an injury in may, it's possible that he could've been lost too long to make up the 29-58 days late in the season to reach that 90 day benchmark. knowing that he's already met that 90-day requirement, if wang is unable to continue pitching for the rest of the season, he'll remain property of the brewers.

 

it should also be noted that minor league seasons end before mlb seasons, but fortunately, minor league seasons do go into september. wang could start his minor league rehab in august, complete it in september, and return to the major league roster when they're expanded to 40. let's hope he starts his rehab in august, and not july.

[djoctagone]

my thoughts are with jean segura and his family as he tries to cope with this tragedy. i hope he's surrounding himself with good people.

 

the brewers have placed segura on the bereavement list, which is 3 - 7 games. (i found one account that states 3 - 7 days, but i believe it is games. the all-star break would not factor into days.) a player on the bereavement list remains on the 40-man roster, earns major league service time, and major league pay.

 

should segura feel that he needs more time before returning to the team, the brewers have some procedural options regarding his roster status. from what i've been able to gather:

 

--after bereavement leave is up, the brewers could place segura on the 15-day disabled list. he would remain on the 40-man roster. i assume that said dl stint could be backdated to the start of the bereavement leave, but i'm not sure. he would continue to earn major league service time.

 

--likewise, if segura requested it, the brewers could place segura on the 60-day disabled list. segura would have to be inactive for 60 days (presumably backdated to the start of his bereavement leave), and no fewer than 60 days. this would open up a spot on the 40-man roster. he would continue to earn major league service time and pay.

 

--it appears that the restricted list is an option for the brewers. in placing segura on the restricted list, he'd be removed from the 40-man roster (but his rights would be retained by the brewers). he would not receive major league pay and would not earn major league service time. however, the brewers could choose to continue to pay segura his salary.

 

it appears that segura and the brewers can wait until 23 july (the eighth game after his bereavement leave) before a decision is made regarding his roster status. this time needs to be spent grieving and healing. the procedural moves can take a backseat for the moment.

[1992casey]

I've always felt that a flaw in the bereavement list is that it tops out at 7 days. If a player needs more time, the next logical step would be to put him on the disabled list, which would require him to be out for 15 days. There's a period of 8 days that isn't very flexible. It'd be better and simpler if a player could be placed on the bereavement list for up to 14 days, then moved to the disabled list retroactively if necessary. That would allow the player to come back before 15 days if he's ready.

 

While the restricted list is apparently available, it certainly doesn't look like an ideal option.

[djoctagone]

I've always felt that a flaw in the bereavement list is that it tops out at 7 days.

7 days or 7 games?

[lcbj68c]

Yes, I think we all understand this. I didn't look at your dates, but the math should be pretty simple. They send him down for 15 days. If they so choose, they can then keep him in the minors for 30 days.

 

The point is he didn't have to have 90 days of service time before the Brewers could put him on the DL. They could have put him on the DL(and had him pitch in the minors on a rehab stint) at any time.

by "send" wang down, i believe you mean shut wang down--that's what the disabled list does. he hasn't been sent down to the minors.

 

and you are correct, the brewers could've put wang on the disabled list at any point this season with an injury, but in order to retain his rights, they'd have to ensure that he accrued 90 days of service time on the 25-man roster.

 

the timetable to return from an injury is never certain. had wang suffered an injury in may, it's possible that he could've been lost too long to make up the 29-58 days late in the season to reach that 90 day benchmark. knowing that he's already met that 90-day requirement, if wang is unable to continue pitching for the rest of the season, he'll remain property of the brewers.

 

it should also be noted that minor league seasons end before mlb seasons, but fortunately, minor league seasons do go into september. wang could start his minor league rehab in august, complete it in september, and return to the major league roster when they're expanded to 40. let's hope he starts his rehab in august, and not july.

 

I've spent a half of the season trying to teach half this board how the Rule 5 draft process works and then you come in and undo most of it! Please allow me to respectfully dispel some of the mistruths I've read over the past page and half.

 

1. "he has already met a minimum of 90 days on the active 25-man roster, so the brewers were able to place him on the disabled list and not risk losing him." There is NEVER any risk to any player to being lost, simply by placing a player on the DL. If you want to now say, that sending him to the minors on a rehab assignment exposes him back to the Pirates without having played the 90 days, that is also not true. The reason is because it's an assignment, NOT an option being used, of which Wang doesn't have any. Whether Wang played 20 days or 90 days before being placed on a rehab assignment, makes no difference.

 

2. "the 25-man roster that the team has on 31 august (plus any players on the disabled list) are the players they get to choose from for each round of the postseason roster" Plus the bereavement list, plus the suspended list. AND any player in the organization could be named (with approval by the commissioner) to replace a player on the DL at the end of the regular season. What that means is Wang could be activated on any date beyond July 26th...go back on the disabled list on September 24th and could be replaced on the post-season roster by Jeremy Jeffress, or any other player that was in the organization on the night of August 31st. Doesn't matter if Jeffress isn't on the 25 man roster on that night.

 

3. "wang can be activated from the 15-day disabled list as early as 26 july, or placed on a 30-day minor league rehab assignment, from which he could be activated as early as 25 august." OR he could be left on the 15-day DL, he could be transferred to the 60-day DL. Also, to say that he can be "activated as early as Aug 25" if he goes on a rehab assignment isn't true either. A rehab assignment DOESNT have to last 30 days....just 30 day is the max for a pitcher. There are a plethora of options when it comes to Wang. He could stay on the 15-day DL for 26 days, go on a 9-day rehab assignment, be activated in mid-August, go back on the 15-day DL on September 25th and be replaced by Jeremy Jeffress for the playoffs if the commissioner approves. It seems unneccessary to wring hands over where Wang sits on August 31st, with respect to the playoffs chances or the playoff roster.

 

4. "a rule 5 draft pick must be on the active roster for at least 90 days for a team to retain his rights. wang achieved that in early july." The rule says IF a player goes on the disabled list at any point in the first season after being drafted in the Rule 5 Draft, that player must be on the active roster for 90 days OVER TWO YEARS. So again, the Brewers have an advantage that all 90 days are already satisfied, but they didn't need to be. Wang could have be active for 5 days in 2014, on the DL the various times with various rehab assignments, then active for 85 days in 2015 and the Brewers would have satisfied the requirements of the Rule 5 draft.

 

5. "and you are correct, the brewers could've put wang on the disabled list at any point this season with an injury, but in order to retain his rights, they'd have to ensure that he accrued 90 days of service time on the 25-man roster." Again, not true. In order to satisfy the requirements of the Rule 5 draft, Wang needs 90 days on the active roster over TWO years. His placement on the DL this year or even at points next year is irrelevant, so long as he gets 90 days on the active roster over those TWO seasons.

 

6. "wang has no minor league options this year (unless a trade is worked out by the pirates). if he remains on the brewers 40-man through spring training 2015, he will have three minor league options" A trade CANNOT be worked out with the Pirates without first exposing Wang to waivers.

 

One of the interesting things that I am anticipating is Wang being placed on revocable waivers at some point in August to see if there are any trade parties interested in making a claim.

[Outlander]

3. He could stay on the 15-day DL for 26 days, go on a 9-day rehab assignment, be activated in mid-August, go back on the 15-day DL on September 25th and be replaced by Jeremy Jeffress for the playoffs if the commissioner approves. It seems unneccessary to wring hands over where Wang sits on August 31st, with respect to the playoffs chances or the playoff roster.

I disagree with you here. It would be nice to have Wang on the disabled list on August 31 because that means he for sure will not be on the playoff roster. If he isn't on the disabled list and there is nobody else on the disabled list, bereavement list, suspended list etc. on August 31 then Wang will have to be hurt again and placed on the disabled list again in September. There is no other way around it. Why go through that again if they don't have to?

[djoctagone]

because wang is overmatched against major league talent, the assumption is that the brewers will take advantage of all of the minor league seasoning that they can get this year. yes, his minor league rehab doesn't have to last 30 days, but i'd be shocked if the brewers made it any shorter.

[lcbj68c]

3. He could stay on the 15-day DL for 26 days, go on a 9-day rehab assignment, be activated in mid-August, go back on the 15-day DL on September 25th and be replaced by Jeremy Jeffress for the playoffs if the commissioner approves. It seems unneccessary to wring hands over where Wang sits on August 31st, with respect to the playoffs chances or the playoff roster.

I disagree with you here. It would be nice to have Wang on the disabled list on August 31 because that means he for sure will not be on the playoff roster. If he isn't on the disabled list and there is nobody else on the disabled list, bereavement list, suspended list etc. on August 31 then Wang will have to be hurt again and placed on the disabled list again in September. There is no other way around it. Why go through that again if they don't have to?

 

Why go through that again (Activating Wang). Because Wang cant be traded from the disabled list. Activating Wang allows you to place him on revocable waivers in August in the hopes that some team bites and you can work out a trade with him involving a commodity coming back that might help for the 2014 season? That's one reason of just a few. Nobody on this forum believes Wang will be on the playoff roster, so I don't see the need to fret over it. All the sacrifices of having him on the active gameday roster have pretty much been satisfied. Managing his status from here on out is gravy.

[lcbj68c]

because wang is overmatched against major league talent, the assumption is that the brewers will take advantage of all of the minor league seasoning that they can get this year. yes, his minor league rehab doesn't have to last 30 days, but i'd be shocked if the brewers made it any shorter.

 

Agreed, but please don't perpetuate mistruths about the roster rules while forming your opinion. I completely agree the Brewers should take every advantage of having Wang pitch anywhere besides Milwaukee. Unless he needs to be activated in order to effect a trade after July 31st. That has to be a consideration. I believe Wang must be active in order to be placed on revocable waivers that could start that trade discussion. There is nothing in the Rule 5 requirements that seem to prohibit draftees from being placed on REVOCABLE waivers after July 31st. (Of course, the revocable part only being allowed once).

[Outlander]

Nobody on this forum believes Wang will be on the playoff roster, so I don't see the need to fret over it.

Don't let your opinions cloud the rules however. He would have to be injured again in September if they don't want him on the playoff roster if there is nobody else on the DL at August 31.

[HiAndTight]

Nobody on this forum believes Wang will be on the playoff roster, so I don't see the need to fret over it.

Don't let your opinions cloud the rules however. He would have to be injured again in September if they don't want him on the playoff roster if there is nobody else on the DL at August 31.

 

 

You honestly believe the Brewers aren't going to leave themselves any options and are going to go with Wang in the post-season?

 

His opinion isn't clouding the rules. Wang will not be on the Brewers post-season roster. Guarantees and absolute statements are a pet peeve of mine, but I'm willing to make one here. Wang=NOT ON POST-SEASON ROSTER. He'll obviously be among the players who are eligible for the post season roster when the Brewers submit their lists by the 31st, but he will NOT occupy a spot on the playoff roster. Johnny Davis in A ball has a better chance to be on the post-season roster as a pinch runner than Wang does as a reliever.

 

 

So no, I would NOT fret about it either.

[lcbj68c]

Nobody on this forum believes Wang will be on the playoff roster, so I don't see the need to fret over it.

Don't let your opinions cloud the rules however. He would have to be injured again in September if they don't want him on the playoff roster if there is nobody else on the DL at August 31.

 

I'm not cloudy on the rules. That is the exact scenario I was describing. It would be within the rules for Wang to be placed on the DL at some point in September due to "shoulder tightness" or some other injury. Then, at the approval of the commissioner, Wang could be replaced by ANYBODY who was in the Brewers system on Aug 31st.

 

It makes the most sense to activate Wang in August, so that he could be placed on revocable waivers and see if there is any trade interest in him. That doesn't mean that he has to pitch any more than he has the past 3 months, but in terms of 40-man roster management, it's a smart move. Simply leaving Wang off the 25-man roster until September, over fear that he'll be on the 25-man playoff roster, just isn't valid. Within the rules, there are plenty of options that have Wang a contributing member of the 40-man roster and even the 25-man roster in August and September without worrying about the playoffs.

[1992casey]

Agreed, but please don't perpetuate mistruths about the roster rules while forming your opinion.

 

I think djoctagone more than covered himself by using verbiage like "the assumption is" and "i'd be shocked if."