40-man roster discussion

[DHonks]

My count shows 45 players right now (thanks to suspended or 60-day DL guys). Some guys whose spots might be in jeopardy include:

Nick Bucci

Michael Olmsted

Mark Rogers

Mike Gonzalez (likely dealt in August)

Santo Manzanillo

Miguel De Los Santos

Yuni Betancourt (thank goodness)

Juan Francisco

Mat Gamel

Sean Halton

Corey Hart (free agent)

Blake Lalli

 

That would get us down to 33. However, I think Gamel is better than most free agent bench players we can find. If Rogers or any others show us something in the next 2 months, they could be retained. So we might have plenty of room to add the guys we need to this off-season.

[JohnBriggs12]

Nobody is likely to claim Gamel after he missed 2 years and has never fully established major league credentials. I think Halton is safe at least initially. Fiers may not be. Can't believe Manzanillo lasted this long. Gonzalez is gone, trade or not. Axford is a non tender candidate though he might be brought back for less money. Same could be for Estrada, especially if he does not return and show something the last month. I'm not 100% certain on Badenhop either though he might project low enough to bring back.

[Roderick]

Nobody is likely to claim Gamel after he missed 2 years and has never fully established major league credentials. I think Halton is safe at least initially. Fiers may not be. Can't believe Manzanillo lasted this long. Gonzalez is gone, trade or not. Axford is a non tender candidate though he might be brought back for less money. Same could be for Estrada, especially if he does not return and show something the last month. I'm not 100% certain on Badenhop either though he might project low enough to bring back.

 

45 minus Gonzalez, Betancourt, Hart. I wouldn't risk Gamel (unless Hart signed) or Estrada. I would keep Badenhop. I don't think they would protect Olmstead or Lalli. I don't have any idea what is up with M DLS or Manzanillo.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Not sure why Francisco would be on the bubble as the Brewers have indicated they want to keep him long term. He's also making the minimum. But if he is on the list, I would add: Green, Sanchez, Wooten, and Prince as also at risk.

 

There are a few prospects they will need to add to protect from the Rule 5 so they will need to clear a few spaces. Most notably are Jimmy Nelson and Hunter Morris. Maybe Kentrail Davis and D'Vo as well.

[DHonks]

Francisco because of his iffy play despite a long audition this year. I have Sanchez and Wooten definitely ranked ahead of him, but I could see why Prince and Green would be in jeopardy. Each has only had really 2 good years in the minors.

[paul253]

I think the fact that Green can play first, second, and third works to his advantage. I'll be disappointed to see him taken off the roster, especially if it is in favor of Juan Francisco. It would be just another young player never given a chance to succeed in Milwaukee. But since Melvin appears to overvalue power and undervalue defense I'd be surprised to see Francisco go.

[xisxisxis]

Dougie can't get enough of any discarded Atlanta third basemen. It's like crack to him.....

[nate82]

I think the fact that Green can play first, second, and third works to his advantage. I'll be disappointed to see him taken off the roster, especially if it is in favor of Juan Francisco. It would be just another young player never given a chance to succeed in Milwaukee. But since Melvin appears to overvalue power and undervalue defense I'd be surprised to see Francisco go.

 

I would have no problem with Francisco on the Roster and Green not on it. In fact the first thing I would do as a GM in the off season would be to remove Green from the 40 man roster. Prince is a better utility player than Green as he can play all of the OF positions plus SS, 2B, 3B, and even 1B though he doesn't really have the offense to play 1B. Prince has more value than Green does and I have no problem with him not being on the 40 man. Francisco would be a nice bench bat as he has some pop in his bat which I would prefer over what Green brings.

[MNBrew]

I think the fact that Green can play first, second, and third works to his advantage. I'll be disappointed to see him taken off the roster, especially if it is in favor of Juan Francisco. It would be just another young player never given a chance to succeed in Milwaukee. But since Melvin appears to overvalue power and undervalue defense I'd be surprised to see Francisco go.

 

I would have no problem with Francisco on the Roster and Green not on it. In fact the first thing I would do as a GM in the off season would be to remove Green from the 40 man roster. Prince is a better utility player than Green as he can play all of the OF positions plus SS, 2B, 3B, and even 1B though he doesn't really have the offense to play 1B. Prince has more value than Green does and I have no problem with him not being on the 40 man. Francisco would be a nice bench bat as he has some pop in his bat which I would prefer over what Green brings.

 

Green has had two Minor League POY seasons separated by a significant injury/recovery period that each are better than anything Josh Prince has done except in last year's AZ Fall League (the equivalent of an in-season hot streak like Rickie Weeks' month of June). If Green can come back healthy and productive, he has Jeff Cirillo-like capabilities at the plate and is solid defensively at two positions (3B & 3B) and decent athleticism. Josh Prince has decent athleticism/speed and Bill Hall-like ability to play anywhere, but not necessarily great at any position because he's not proven with any consistency to be a capable hitter (only one BA above .260 above rookie ball (it was in high-A, never above .300), and only last year in AAA finally made it to double-digit HRs with 10).

 

Granted, Green -- like Gamel -- is going to have to earn everything he gets at the MLB level until/if he's proven enough. But he has far more going for him than the punch-and-judy hitter Josh Prince is.

 

P.S. I hope Francisco is in another organization next year if not sooner.

[Oxy]

I think the fact that Green can play first, second, and third works to his advantage. I'll be disappointed to see him taken off the roster, especially if it is in favor of Juan Francisco. It would be just another young player never given a chance to succeed in Milwaukee. But since Melvin appears to overvalue power and undervalue defense I'd be surprised to see Francisco go.

 

I would have no problem with Francisco on the Roster and Green not on it. In fact the first thing I would do as a GM in the off season would be to remove Green from the 40 man roster. Prince is a better utility player than Green as he can play all of the OF positions plus SS, 2B, 3B, and even 1B though he doesn't really have the offense to play 1B. Prince has more value than Green does and I have no problem with him not being on the 40 man. Francisco would be a nice bench bat as he has some pop in his bat which I would prefer over what Green brings.

 

Green has has two Minor League POY seasons separated by a significant injury/recovery period that each are better than anything Josh Prince has done except in last year's AZ Fall League (the equivalent of an in-season hot streak like Rickie Weeks' month of June). If Green can come back healthy and productive, he has Jeff Cirillo-like capabilities at the plate and is solid defensively at two positions (3B & 3B) and decent athleticism. Josh Prince has decent athleticism/speed and Bill Hall-like ability to play anywhere, but not necessarily great at any position because he's not proven with any consistency to be a capable hitter (only one BA above .260 above rookie ball (it was in high-A, never above .300), and only last year in AAA finally made it to double-digit HRs with 10).

 

Granted, Green -- like Gamel -- is going to have to earn everything he gets at the MLB level until/if he's proven enough. But he has far more going for him than the punch-and-judy hitter Josh Prince is.

 

P.S. I hope Francisco is in another organization next year if not sooner.

 

I think the point is that Prince's versatility makes him a better option for the bench than Green. Green has a higher upside of being a regular 3b/2b, although if he maxes out his potential he'd still only be average. Prince will never be a regular, but he has enough tools to be more situationally valuable off the bench than Green does.

[nate82]

 

Green has has two Minor League POY seasons separated by a significant injury/recovery period that each are better than anything Josh Prince has done except in last year's AZ Fall League (the equivalent of an in-season hot streak like Rickie Weeks' month of June). If Green can come back healthy and productive, he has Jeff Cirillo-like capabilities at the plate and is solid defensively at two positions (3B & 3B) and decent athleticism. Josh Prince has decent athleticism/speed and Bill Hall-like ability to play anywhere, but not necessarily great at any position because he's not proven with any consistency to be a capable hitter (only one BA above .260 above rookie ball (it was in high-A, never above .300), and only last year in AAA finally made it to double-digit HRs with 10).

 

Green isn't as valuable as Prince would be coming off the bench. While the offense is nice he is limited to two positions and possibly a third. His offense isn't all that great at either 3B or 1B but would be adequate at 2B but defensively I am not sure he could play 2B. Prince on the other hand can play multiple positions which gives him more value than Green as a bench player. With Prince it allows you to have a player on your bench who is very limited defensively while with Green you are going to need a player who can play defensively a little better at least at two different positions. With Prince for example you could have an Adam Dunn like player defensively on your bench while with Green you are going to need someone like Jerry Hairston on the bench. I would rather have someone who is going to give you more power off the bench who is limited defensively than someone who is almost an exact copy of the player who is ahead of him on the bench. Team building wise Prince makes more sense than Green as he can play more positions and allows you to fill out your bench with better offensive players who are limited defensively.

[logan82]

Bianchi looks like a good future bench player to me. With himon the team I think Gamel or Greem make a lot of sense.

[paul253]

I think the point is that Prince's versatility makes him a better option for the bench than Green.

 

Josh Prince's career minor league numbers aren't even comparable to Green's: .249/.331/.343 vs .289/.370/.452. Yes Prince can physically play the outfield and shortstop and is probably okay defensively but honestly if we need an outfielder to be on the 25 man roster they are at least three, maybe four options ahead of him (Schafer, Gindl, Khris Davis, and maybe Kentrail Davis). And as far as shortstop goes I'd rather pay a veteran $2 million to be a backup than to rely on Prince. Whereas Green has the ability to be the every day option should someone like Ramirez get hurt, I don't see Josh Prince as an every day option. You'd be looking at Alex Gonzalez type numbers, if that. Josh Prince may be able to pay multiple positions but offensively he is not a major league caliber player.

 

And for what it's work, I think Green had three good years in the minor leagues (2007, 2008, 2011) not two like everyone keeps saying. If he didn't have that wrist injury it would have been more.

[MNBrew]

Positional flexibility is one thing, but you don't need someone to handle every IF & OF position hardly ever, so the fact that Green can play 5 positions (he's logged a few corner OF innings in the bigs) makes him sufficiently versatile.

 

Prince's bat is not MLB-worthy at this point, not even close.

 

At this point, we already have a Josh Prince-type player on the roster who's much better: Jeff Bianchi. With Bianchi on the bench (solid middle IF reserve & passable for short stretches (in other words, not regular starter material) at 3B), you don't need Josh Prince. You need Green & Gamel types who can hit with some pop and can hold down starting corner IF jobs and capably sub in the corner OF spots, which they've shown in short stretches they can do -- and with the OF reserve options noted above, the Brewers are in 8 worlds of hurt like this year at 1B if they're down to needing Gamel or Green to be regular starters there out of injury-based necessity.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Clearly Francisco has a number of holes, but the Brewers can I'll afford to let someone with his power potential go for free. His salary is at league minimum and is under team control. I see many more players likely to go before him. I don't think Green should be left unprotected as well. My point was that he is similar in value to francisco.

 

We need to clear 7-9 spots on the roster and I can see 9 guys I'd rather see go before either of the above. My list would be:

 

The three FA's: Betencourt, Hart, Gonzalez then: Lalli, Halton, M. DLS, Manzanillo, Olmsted, Prince - in that order

[MNBrew]

I like Gonzalez & am torn re: whether it's better to trade him or to try to sign him now for next year, however illogical the latter will sound to many on this board.

 

After all, if we don't have him, we'll probably still try to go get a guy like him anyway (at least some combination of successful, veteran, lefty, & rubber-arm). He won't cost lots and for the most part he's had a strong year.

 

In the spirit of this thread, he'd be an easy guy to let go to FA if he's not traded, then make a push to re-sign as a FA, whether that's from MIL or the club he's (hypothetically) traded to.

 

Francisco..... the occasional pop is nice, but that's about the only viable MLB skill he has. He's Yuni-level bad defensively and if he's not hitting with power, he's usually doing little if anything at the plate the relatively few times he manages to put the ball in play. It'll rile a few when I say this, but I'd much rather have a Mark Kotsay-type (though not Kotsay himself -- don't appear to need that kind of depth in the OF but I do mean a veteran, "professional hitter" type but with a bit more power & general upside, perhaps Matt Stairs is a better comparison since that's who the SportsCenter guys used to use that moniker on for years) than Juan Francisco filling that role on the roster.

[torts]

question, has any team called up every player on their 40-man roster in a season before? I know thats probably hard to know, but i think milwaukee might be close to having 35 - 36 of their 40-man roster playing at least one game before September. Gorzo and Gallardo are both missing their next starts, I think Jimmy Nelson makes one start which would leave the only players to not make it on the MLB level this year to Pena, Junngmann, Nick Bucci, Jesus Sanchez, Manzanillo (injured) and Miguel De Los Santos(missing?). I think come september Sanchez/Jungmann will get called up, maybe Pena.. but man, what a mess of a year.. but at least were getting to see whats in the pipeline in pitching, right?

[Outlander]

Wouldn't care if Betancourt, Gonzalez, Lalli, MDLS, Manzanillo, Olmsted, Rogers, Prince and Axford were removed from the 40 man today. Would probably give Fiers one more year, pay Badenhop in arbitration since minimal money is getting put in the bullpen and then Melvin has to prioritize between Hart/Halton/Gamel/Green/Francisco/Morris. I like Halton more than most and wouldn't mind him and Gamel getting a large amount of playing time next year and let Morris get better in AAA. I don't really know if there is really a spot for Green anymore because they already have 2 guys who only play second, Bianchi/Francisco already play third and there are other options at first. Maybe Francisco can get traded and Green stays.

[Mass Haas]

question, has any team called up every player on their 40-man roster in a season before? I know thats probably hard to know, but i think milwaukee might be close to having 35 - 36 of their 40-man roster playing at least one game before September. Gorzo and Gallardo are both missing their next starts, I think Jimmy Nelson makes one start which would leave the only players to not make it on the MLB level this year to Pena, Junngmann, Nick Bucci, Jesus Sanchez, Manzanillo (injured) and Miguel De Los Santos(missing?). I think come september Sanchez/Jungmann will get called up, maybe Pena.. but man, what a mess of a year.. but at least were getting to see whats in the pipeline in pitching, right?

 

Couple of issues with your post -- Nelson and Jungmann are not currently on the 40-man, so we leave them off the discussion for this point. I mentioned yesterday via the Link Report and Twitter that every healthy position player on the 40-man roster has already seen big league action this year. That alone is very rare.

 

So on to the pitchers -- healthy 40-man roster pitchers who have not seen big league action in 2013 are: Pena, Manzanillo, Olmsted, Sanchez. Sanchez should definitely get a look in September.

 

So Pena, Manzanillo, and Olmsted are very likely to be the only healthy players on the 40-man roster in 2013 who don't see big league action, and with a hot August (not trending well), Pena might sneak in as a September call-up.

[torts]

question, has any team called up every player on their 40-man roster in a season before? I know thats probably hard to know, but i think milwaukee might be close to having 35 - 36 of their 40-man roster playing at least one game before September. Gorzo and Gallardo are both missing their next starts, I think Jimmy Nelson makes one start which would leave the only players to not make it on the MLB level this year to Pena, Junngmann, Nick Bucci, Jesus Sanchez, Manzanillo (injured) and Miguel De Los Santos(missing?). I think come september Sanchez/Jungmann will get called up, maybe Pena.. but man, what a mess of a year.. but at least were getting to see whats in the pipeline in pitching, right?

 

Couple of issues with your post -- Nelson and Jungmann are not currently on the 40-man, so we leave them off the discussion for this point. I mentioned yesterday via the Link Report and Twitter that every healthy position player on the 40-man roster has already seen big league action this year. That alone is very rare.

 

So on to the pitchers -- healthy 40-man roster pitchers who have not seen big league action in 2013 are: Pena, Manzanillo, Olmsted, Sanchez. Sanchez should definitely get a look in September.

 

So Pena, Manzanillo, and Olmsted are very likely to be the only healthy players on the 40-man roster in 2013 who don't see big league action, and with a hot August (not trending well), Pena might sneak in as a September call-up.

 

my mistake, thanks for catching that. still, 37 of 40 by the end of the season? thats kind of high, right?

[djoctagone]

mat gamel claimed by the cubs. taylor green waived.

 

josh prince and nick bucci outrighted.

 

the 40-man roster stands at 38.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Roster is technically still at 42 with FA's and suspended players. With the 3 FAs coming off, that will leave us with 39. Looks like Hunter may be the only addition prior to rule 5 draft, pending any other changes.

[MNBrew]

I still wouldn't be surprised if a few more moves were to happen. Olmsted strikes me as a potential goner. Manzanillo was downright lousy -- WHIP over 2.00 in AA including more BB than K there & at high-A. Ditto one or two of the late-season pickups -- easy come, easy go. And I don't see any reason why DLS has any place on our 40-man when he couldn't get his visa stuff (or was it his actual age or identity?) worked out all year long, so that'd be another spot not re-taken.

 

The wiggle room seems to be with the pitching staff and maybe (please!!!!) Francisco. There are only 6 OFs on the 40-man, all of whom saw decent MLB time this year, only 2 Cs, and not exactly a surplus of IFs once the FAs are gone (esp. considering Gennett & Halton are the only "minor league" IFs on the roster, and they both got decent MLB time last year).

[djoctagone]

There are . . . not exactly a surplus of IFs once the FAs are gone (esp. considering Gennett & Halton are the only "minor league" IFs on the roster, and they both got decent MLB time last year).

the cost of outrighting josh prince. i'm not saying that prince deserved to hold on to his 40-man spot, but it did take away depth as prince had been groomed as a super-utility player.

[Outlander]

Prince is still in the organization, if they really need him next year they just put him on the 40 man then. It was a smart idea to remove him from the 40 man because it frees a spot for somebody else and there is little to no chance somebody is going to pick up Prince in the rule 5 draft.