At what point are we allowed to start calling Jonathan Lucroy a star?

[greeg35]

I still want to know why he is completely unable to work with certain pitchers. What part of his catching style rubs guys the wrong way?

 

This was not a Lucroy problem, this was a whiney wolf problem.

[Baldkin]

I still want to know why he is completely unable to work with certain pitchers. What part of his catching style rubs guys the wrong way?

 

This was not a Lucroy problem, this was a whiney wolf problem.

 

Now Peralta is the same way.

[greeg35]

I still want to know why he is completely unable to work with certain pitchers. What part of his catching style rubs guys the wrong way?

 

This was not a Lucroy problem, this was a whiney wolf problem.

 

Now Peralta is the same way.

 

That is because of language and familiarity as far as I know.

[HiAndTight]

He should have made the All-Star team two years in a row. The only catchers better than him in MLB are probably Posey, Molina and Mauer. That is it. I think he is very close to star status, a few more years like this and he will be there. I have been a big fan since he got the call in 2010. Got his jersey for Christmas this past offseason. Remember when some thought Angel Salome was going to be the catcher of the future over Lucroy?

 

I also think he has turned into a leader on the club and I noticed that he plays with a bit of swagger. Something about his mannerisms.

 

 

Yes, I remember distinctly discussing that with "TheBruce," but it wasn't really that illogical. Salome was a dynamo in the minor leagues, had a cannon for an arm, put up huge numbers and physically looked the part a lot more.

 

I favored Lucroy because I thought he was the safer bet, but at that time I think anyone who would have argued that if one of the two was going to go on to become one of the best catchers in the game, the vast-vast majority would have said Salome, so I can't fault anyone for that.

 

 

As far as him "should have," having made the all-star team, I'm not sure about that.

 

Brian McCann is the only one of the 3 catchers you could argue he deserved to beat out and his numbers leading into the ASG-291/.374/.536 And a OPS of .910 with 12 HR's 32 RBI's in 53 games.

Season Totals-.286/.370/.537/.907 with 16 HR's and 44 RBI's

AND....he's played in 6 all-star games. Not that it should make a difference, but it always does.

 

Lucroy

ASG-.276/.319/.473/.793 13 HR's 53 RBI's

Season Totals-.281/.334/.497/.831 16 HR's 59 RBI's

 

 

 

I agree with the premise though. He's becoming an elite catcher. Just the perfect approach at the plate, up the middle, RF and then they leave one middle in and he can jump on it.

 

 

It's part of the reason I'd like to see him getting SOME playing time or SOME thought going into him potentially playing 3rd base in Spring Training next year. I think he could easily be a .300/.350/.500 hitter, hit 30/100 if he played 145+ games. And I think Maldy could be a average hitting catcher and a defensive stud if he played more often.

[thebruce44]

Oh, I absolutely thought Salome = McCann and Lucroy = Saltdog. Either way I would have been happy though, and I'm ecstatic with what we have now. And I agree, Lucroy was always the safer bet, I thought if anyone would be the star though it would be Salome. Its nice to have a prospect really reach their ceiling, and from everything I've ever heard from Lucroy I'm not surprised he reached that point. I get the impression he doesn't accept anything less of himself.

[HiAndTight]

Lucroy is awesome. He doesn't get any attention because the media loves to ignore Brewers players not named Fielder or Braun. Lucroy can hit with the best and he's very good at framing. Sometimes though I question his defensive skills. He's not terrible but he's not great. I think his blocking ability could use some work. Still though this guy is top 5 at his position in baseball. I'm very happy that the Brewers have him signed for a while.

 

I wasnt aware there was a Fielder on the Brewers anymore

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure he's aware of that.

 

And with regard to the defense, I definitely agree. I think he's a bit overrated. Definitely not "well above average." I think it's almost impossible to quantify and judge how well a catcher "frames pitches," and Lucroy certainly doesn't have a cannon for an arm.

 

This was not a Lucroy problem, this was a whiney wolf problem.

 

And this is based on what? If there's something to it gregg, I'm curious to hear. Perhaps you have knowledge of the clubhouse. I used to have friends who did. Maybe that's the case here. Or is it a case of one guy is younger and a building block and the other was a high priced free agent who flamed out in his final year so we're just automatically assuming the guy with the 14 year career of being an above average pitcher is "whinning?"

 

Lucroy has clearly had a different opinion on which pitch to throw several times this year. The two that stand out the most are with Lohse(Another vet) and with Peralta. Peralta shook off Lucroy several times on a 2 strike pitch with 2 outs, wanted to throw his slider, Lucroy kept calling for the fastball, Peralta didn't want to throw it, finally there was a meeting at the mound, Peralta threw what he wanted to(which in the end is the way it should always go, the pitcher has to have conviction) and threw a beauty for a 3rd strike. With Lohse there have just been times when you can tell they're not on the same page and there are mound meetings. Though that seems to be getting better.

 

 

I don't think Lucroy is a problem or anything like that, but there are some signs that he has trouble with certain pitchers at times.

[HiAndTight]

Oh, I absolutely thought Salome = McCann and Lucroy = Saltdog. Either way I would have been happy though, and I'm ecstatic with what we have now. And I agree, Lucroy was always the safer bet, I thought if anyone would be the star though it would be Salome. Its nice to have a prospect really reach their ceiling, and from everything I've ever heard from Lucroy I'm not surprised he reached that point. I get the impression he doesn't accept anything less of himself.

 

 

I think he's surpassed what most people even thought was his ceiling.

 

Just looking back at his minor league numbers, and I know he was pressed into duty a bit early because of the injury to Zaun. But he had just 335 games in the minors and only 23 at AAA. Pretty impressive for a catcher.

[reillymcshane]

Nice article about Luc's success at Disciples of Uecker:

 

http://disciplesofuecker.com/jonathan-lucroy-near-elite-catcher/13764

 

Nice praise:

 

"Even as it stands, he already has the eighth-best single season by a Brewers’ catcher. And if he can continue to produce past this season — and there doesn’t seem to be any reason why he shouldn’t be able to produce — he may finish his career as the greatest catcher to ever don a Brewers’ uniform."

[sveumrules]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/jonathan-lucroy-on-the-art-of-receiving/

 

Really good read for fans of Lucroy's receiving abilities.

[The stache]

Whether or not Luc's a star is still open to debate. But that at bat against Chapman last night in the ninth is one of the greatest at bats I've ever seen. One out in the bottom of the ninth, Luc worked him to a 14th pitch, then hit a monster 2 run walk off home run. Spectacular!

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/mil/play/?c_id=mil&content_id=29775307&topic_id=8878756

 

Luc now at .286 AVG 17 HR 64 RBI with an .826 OPS

[JohnBriggs12]

His numbers the last 2 seasons are star quality that's for sure. I've been saying all along with stars at 3 of the 4 positions up the middle under control through 2016 the Brewers are well positioned to contend despite the doom and gloomers.

 

Not only is Lucroy a star, he's now clearly the team leader along with Gomez. The void of leadership left when Fielder departed has been filled.

[logan82]

Yeah the lack of good starting pitching won't hurt us at all.

[TURBO]

...and the lack of a manger that can actually manage a game won't be an issue either.

 

Replace the coaching staff in 2014.

[JohnBriggs12]

Yeah the lack of good starting pitching won't hurt us at all.

 

Yeah that starting pitching that's recorded 11 shutouts in the last 57 games is really awful.

[Funketown]

They're still 11th in ERA, 15th in FIP, and 13th in xFIP in the NL. They've been better of late, but they have not been good by any means.

[thebruce44]

Yeah the lack of good starting pitching won't hurt us at all.

 

Yeah that starting pitching that's recorded 11 shutouts in the last 57 games is really awful.

 

Finally, we agree on something Briggs.

[TURBO]

The biggest question is this:

 

Is he keeper worthy in fantasy baseball?

 

[HiAndTight]

Yeah the lack of good starting pitching won't hurt us at all.

 

Yeah that starting pitching that's recorded 11 shutouts in the last 57 games is really awful.

 

Finally, we agree on something Briggs.

 

Really? You don't think we're lacking in starting pitching because we've had some good/great starts from Peralta, Gallardo threw a good game, we've pieced together some good games over 57 games?

 

Our "ace," has an ERA near 5.00, Lohse is a good pitcher, though in his mid 30's. Peralta is a very exciting prospect, but hardly a lock.

 

I don't care how many shutouts we throw over some arbitrary number of games(though I believe we were the last team to shut a team out this year in all of MLB) I care about how consistently good they are, and that we have a dominant top of the rotation so we can contend with the top teams.

 

Name 3-4 teams in the NL who's got a worse rotation than us? I think the entire NL East is better(yes, even the Marlins with Fernandez, Turner, Evoldi and others), we're better than the Cubs I suppose. The Dodgers, D-backs, are clearly better. So MAYBE the Rockies, the Cubs and the Padres?

 

 

Yeah, the starting pitching is still a HUGE concern.

 

 

Edit-Oh, and Mike Fiers is saying hi right now to Tom Gorzalanny and several other Brewers spot starters! In fact, I'd guess just based off memory that you could say at least 3, maybe 4 of those shutouts were not a result of starting pitching as much as the BP. There were several times we had a reliever "start," and then Kintzler, K-Rod, Henderson, Axford and a very effective BP combined. We'll need Yo to bounce back, Peralta to be consistent and good #4/5 pitchers.

[JimH5]

Brewers and Giants are tied for 13th/14th in Quality Starts in the NL. Rockies are last.

[thebruce44]

Yeah that starting pitching that's recorded 11 shutouts in the last 57 games is really awful.

 

Finally, we agree on something Briggs.

 

Really? You don't think we're lacking in starting pitching because we've had some good/great starts from Peralta, Gallardo threw a good game, we've pieced together some good games over 57 games?

 

Our "ace," has an ERA near 5.00, Lohse is a good pitcher, though in his mid 30's. Peralta is a very exciting prospect, but hardly a lock.

 

I don't care how many shutouts we throw over some arbitrary number of games(though I believe we were the last team to shut a team out this year in all of MLB) I care about how consistently good they are, and that we have a dominant top of the rotation so we can contend with the top teams.

 

Name 3-4 teams in the NL who's got a worse rotation than us? I think the entire NL East is better(yes, even the Marlins with Fernandez, Turner, Evoldi and others), we're better than the Cubs I suppose. The Dodgers, D-backs, are clearly better. So MAYBE the Rockies, the Cubs and the Padres?

 

 

Yeah, the starting pitching is still a HUGE concern.

 

 

Edit-Oh, and Mike Fiers is saying hi right now to Tom Gorzalanny and several other Brewers spot starters! In fact, I'd guess just based off memory that you could say at least 3, maybe 4 of those shutouts were not a result of starting pitching as much as the BP. There were several times we had a reliever "start," and then Kintzler, K-Rod, Henderson, Axford and a very effective BP combined. We'll need Yo to bounce back, Peralta to be consistent and good #4/5 pitchers.

 

I was being sarcastic because of how irrelevant I thought a statistic like shutouts was. Didn't think I needed blue.

[Baldkin]

15 RBI's short of the team record for a catcher. Ted Simmons had 87 in 1982.

 

Hopefully the guys in front of him get hot so he has a shot of breaking that.

[BrewCrewForever]

Hope he hits at least 3 more HR so he can get to 20. Pretty good number for a catcher.

[Outlander]

There is an ESPN Insider article that focuses on Molina and Lucroy and their pitch framing. The article notes Lucroy has been worth far more runs than any other player in the National League, topping Andrew McCutchen.

[logan82]

There is an ESPN Insider article that focuses on Molina and Lucroy and their pitch framing. The article notes Lucroy has been worth far more runs than any other player in the National League, topping Andrew McCutchen.

That does not pass the smell test.

[BrewCrewForever]

This is a good read.

 

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2013/9/7/4699238/does-jonathan-lucroy-have-the-best-contract-in-baseball