Rickie Weeks returns to form [Latest: Weeks is done for the season, surgery likely. See post #91]

[TURBO]

Nope, not tonight, game 3 of Rickie hitting lead-off...

 

What is our manager trying to prove?

 

He needs to go, this is just so messed up. Hey, lets take one of our worst hitters, and give him the most at bats per game on a regular basis.

 

Dumb.

[Baldkin]

Yuni is on pace to get 500 PA's and have an OBP under .240.

 

Do you really think our manager has any idea who a good hitter is at this point?

[DHonks]

I'm with others that would like to see Bianchi get 2 starts a week at 2nd. I'll stand by Weeks, but Bianchi has some offensive upside as well, while being a better defender

[joepepsi]

Of the 13 Brewers with at least 100 PA, Rickie's OBP (321)ranks 7th.

 

Everyone in these parts hates Rickie Weeks. Hates him. But YuniB? He gets a pass. His last 67 games he's batting 176/208/279.

 

The available options to replace Weeks at 2B won't hit for a .321 OBP, but anyone would be an improvement over YuniB at 3B.

[TURBO]

Yuni B gets a pass? From who?

[chadomac]

Yuni B is the least popular player in the history of Brewerfan.net

[joepepsi]

Yuni B is the least popular player in the history of Brewerfan.net

Sorry, I wasn't clear. "In these parts" refers to where I live in Western Wi.

[Baldkin]

Yuni B gets a pass? From who?

 

Roenicke.

[DHonks]

Yuni is what we expect. He's a backup that's capable of playing multiple positions and possesses a little power. Due to injuries he is starting. Sorry, but this team wasnt built to withstand missing our 1b, 3b, LF, backup 1b/3b/lf, and backup to the backup at 1b/3b/2b. Yuni B isn't the problem. Plus Weeks' one tool that always does adequately is OBP. Why not put him in a spot where he can focus on success with OBP instead of failure with RBI? We're in last place, so it's worth a try.

[TURBO]

Yuni B gets a pass? From who?

 

Roenicke.

 

Ain't that the truth...

 

[chickinbrickin]

When Weeks was at his best over the last few years it was while he was batting leadoff. I am thinking they are putting him there in a last ditch effort to jump start Weeks this season.

[Gobias Industries]

When Weeks was at his best over the last few years it was while he was batting leadoff. I am thinking they are putting him there in a last ditch effort to jump start Weeks this season.

That definitely sounds like a plausible conclusion most MLB managers would make.

 

He's a platoon player at this point. It's painfully obvious. At least against lefties his offense will negate his horrible d.

[joepepsi]

Yuni is what we expect. He's a backup that's capable of playing multiple positions and possesses a little power. Due to injuries he is starting.

I understand that is the excuse they are using, but they have other options. Bianchi and Halton come to mind; younger players who may actually develop into useful cheap bench players.

[brewcrewdue80]

July will be Rickie's 3rd calendar month below batting .200 this season. His awful year last season? Had just 2 calendar months under .200 BA.

He hadn't had a calendar month under .200 since July 2007. You tell me what his future looks like? My money would be 5 calendar months next season under .200BA.

 

Don't care what Scooter's OPS numbers will be compared to Rickie's. Not every player in baseball needs to have a .800+OPS to help a team. Especially if it comes from a player batting .280+.

 

How many fans here hate Aoki? Because essentially Scooter Gennett projects to be Aoki's numbers minus 3-4% on the BB Rate. So in 600 PAs Gennett will have approximately 23 less BBs than Aoki while having 6 more hits in those ABs. By the numbers that means 17 PAs below Aoki's standards currently. Nevermind Gennett is 23 and Heaven Forbid all ability to become better ended when he reached the age of 21.

This is 2b we're talking about here.

 

Here's a number for the Gennett haters: .274/.319/.351/ .671 Oh No! under .700OPS!!!

 

This guy has a career 22.3WAR in 17seasons.

 

Who was he? Jim Gantner.

 

I think we can handle 6 seasons of Gennett's production for little cost compared to Weeks' lack of production with high team payroll impact cost.

[MNBrew]

After Weeks yet again hit into a DP with the bases loaded tonight, I thought I'd check on his RISP for the year....

 

- Now 9 for 75 (yes, a whopping .120 BA after tonight's PH'ing AB, with a .278 OBP and .542 OPS prior to tonight's failure)!!!!! Good heavens, I'd have let Gennett face the LHP Lopez even if it was a total mismatch!

- Also now 4 for 40 (.100 BA!!!) in late/close situations.

 

Completely putrid! Granted, the guy busts his tail regardless and conducts himself extremely professionally (no excuses at all). But he's absolutely killing the team with his bat. He's reaching Yuni B levels of stink at the plate.

[Baldkin]

But he's absolutely killing the team with his bat. He's reaching Yuni B levels of stink at the plate.

 

I just have to say, this is not even close to true.

 

Weeks has a 91 wRC+ this season. Yuni has a 60. The difference between Weeks and Yuni with the bat this season is about the same as the difference between Weeks and Segura.

[MNBrew]

But he's absolutely killing the team with his bat. He's reaching Yuni B levels of stink at the plate.

 

I just have to say, this is not even close to true.

 

Weeks has a 91 wRC+ this season. Yuni has a 60. The difference between Weeks and Yuni with the bat this season is about the same as the difference between Weeks and Segura.

Not exactly when you boil it down. The difference is that Weeks still walks a lot more than Yuni and also is still good at getting hit by a lot of pitches. Weeks strikes out a ton and my point is that he's become just about as worthless with the bat as Yuni when he's not getting on base by not swinging the bat.

 

Weeks has been a complete rally killer for the past month. It's not like he's walked an awful lot. He's getting paid big bucks and part of what earned him that salary were his power & RBI numbers in addition to getting on base, scoring lots, and having good speed. His BA is horrid and his OBP and slugging are just plain ugly, too. The Brewers have still had a reasonably good offense this year -- lots of guys getting on base ahead of him -- and he has 2 dozen RBIs.

 

It's just depressing when a previous-proven, very good all-around player has sunk to these levels and his work ethic, quietly-improved/quite-passable defense (yes, I'm serious), and free passes to first base are the only three ways he's really helping the team. Those attributes make his $10M-ish salary seem beyond absurd.

[Outlander]

Well there is still value in getting on base and even with his struggles I will give him credit for somehow still being able to take walks and getting hit by pitch. If that goes away he is pretty much worthless as a player because like you said he can't hit anymore. Have to disagree when you say his fielding is better, seems as bad as it always has been.

[logan82]

But he's absolutely killing the team with his bat. He's reaching Yuni B levels of stink at the plate.

 

I just have to say, this is not even close to true.

 

Weeks has a 91 wRC+ this season. Yuni has a 60. The difference between Weeks and Yuni with the bat this season is about the same as the difference between Weeks and Segura.

Not exactly when you boil it down. The difference is that Weeks still walks a lot more than Yuni and also is still good at getting hit by a lot of pitches. Weeks strikes out a ton and my point is that he's become just about as worthless with the bat as Yuni when he's not getting on base by not swinging the bat.

You can't just arbitrarily take out stats.

 

If Weeks fielding wasn't so bad this year he wouldn't be a bad player to have at 2B. Not worth the $10m he is getting paid but not bad. Unfortunately it looks like his fielding is as bad as it was when he first came up. I would have to imagine he has little to no trade value at this point. I think we have to hope he turns it around next year but still doesn't vest his option.

 

His K% is a little higher than career norms. BB% almost dead on his career average. More LD, more GB fewer FB. HIs out of zone contact % is down as is his overall contact %. That coupled with seeing fewer pitches in the zone looks like the problem. 4% more first strikes than career norms. That doesn't seem very significant though. That is only 16 pitches for strikes instead of balls to start a PA.

 

His clutch is way down but that could all be related. He possibly gets pitched differently with guys on base. He is seeing more guys on base than normal batting lower in the lineup. It could be as simple as jumping on that first pitch more often or it could be a decline in bat speed not allowing him to make contact as often or making worse contact when he does.

[MNBrew]

I'm not arbitrarily taking out stats.

 

It's simple analysis - emphasis on simple - albeit in ways that are probably too simplistic for many for many people's liking on this board - to explain how Yuni & Rickie are eerily & mostly similarly worthless at the plate.

 

Yuni stinks this year & Rickie really stinks compared to his career norms, as Logan points out -- the main difference that sets Rickie slightly above being the frequency with which Rickie gets on base when he doesn't hit the ball, and the main thing setting Yuni above Rickie is that Yuni has actually driven in over 50% more runs that Rickie. A bit surprisingly, Yuni has K'd only about half as frequently as Rickie.

 

(EDIT: boldfaced text added for clarity, as explained two posts hence)

[Baldkin]

I'm not arbitrarily taking out stats.

 

It's simple analysis - emphasis on simple - albeit in ways that are probably too simplistic for many on this board - to explain how Yuni & Rickie are eerily & mostly similarly worthless at the plate.

 

Yuni stinks this year & Rickie really stinks compared to his career norms, as Logan points out -- the main difference that sets Rickie slightly above being the frequency with which Rickie gets on base when he doesn't hit the ball, and the main thing setting Yuni above Rickie is that Yuni has actually driven in over 50% more runs that Rickie. A bit surprisingly, Yuni has K'd only about half as frequently as Rickie.

 

No, that's not surprising at all. Yuni swings at everything, and hits it weakly.

Rickie works the count, which is why he walks and K's more.

 

Yuni has had 22 full counts this season, Rickie has had 75.

 

You're saying "Rickie is just as bad a hitter as Yuni, if we discount one of the best things that Rickie does"

 

Here, let me take your simple argument and make my own, Yuni is just as good a hitter as Braun, he has more HR's and the same number of RBI's as him.

[MNBrew]

I'm not arbitrarily taking out stats.

 

It's simple analysis - emphasis on simple - albeit in ways that are probably too simplistic for many for many people's liking on this board - to explain how Yuni & Rickie are eerily & mostly similarly worthless at the plate.

 

Yuni stinks this year & Rickie really stinks compared to his career norms, as Logan points out -- the main difference that sets Rickie slightly above being the frequency with which Rickie gets on base when he doesn't hit the ball, and the main thing setting Yuni above Rickie is that Yuni has actually driven in over 50% more runs that Rickie. A bit surprisingly, Yuni has K'd only about half as frequently as Rickie.

 

No, that's not surprising at all. Yuni swings at everything, and hits it weakly.

Rickie works the count, which is why he walks and K's more.

 

Yuni has had 22 full counts this season, Rickie has had 75.

 

You're saying "Rickie is just as bad a hitter as Yuni, if we discount one of the best things that Rickie does"

 

Here, let me take your simple argument and make my own, Yuni is just as good a hitter as Braun, he has more HR's and the same number of RBI's as him.

Besides that your analogy isn't apples-to-apples with the point I'm trying to make, sarcasm or condescension don't make me any more open to your point of view.

 

It's a normal thing to make a comparison about the basic results of Weeks' & Yuni's ABs. The details vary and thus can carry different other implications (such as pitch counts, as you point out), but an out's still an out, whether by foul pop to the 3B or by line drive grounder to an infielder. To that extent, Weeks' one big-obvious "plus" aside, their batting results are both extremely lousy.

 

Two more things:

 

1. Boldfaced text added for clarity above. It's what I was thinking when I wrote the original post but realized after reading subsequent posts that I didn't type it. Sorry.

 

2. My overall point is that Rickie used to be good at a lot of things. This year he's not very good at many things at all and for the past month has again become mostly very unproductive in the lineup, especially in the clutch (meaning RISP and close/late situations). To that extent, in my eyes, he's decreased his productivity and value to the point where, in these seemingly eternal dry spells, he's not worth a lot more than Yuni B, who I wish weren't on the team at all (obviously Weeks has All-Star ability but he's having a badly "off" year, whereas much of Yuni's skill set doesn't belong on the same field as Weeks, which we mostly hope is accomplished by Yuni being sent packing). In the grand scheme of things, I think we'd all prefer the "old" Rickie Weeks back, although I'll probably catch another bunch of flack because I'd take the current Rickie's defense over the early Rickie's defense (regardless of metrics, he passes the eyeball test a whole lot better now than he used to, in part because he doesn't make as many blatantly bad plays and errors as he used to make so regularly).

[Outlander]

Here, let me take your simple argument and make my own, Yuni is just as good a hitter as Braun, he has more HR's and the same number of RBI's as him.

That is a real poor example and not even close to the argument MNBrew is making, really reaching to try to make a case for the horrible play of Weeks the last two years.

[Outlander]

You can't just arbitrarily take out stats.

 

If Weeks fielding wasn't so bad this year he wouldn't be a bad player to have at 2B. Not worth the $10m he is getting paid but not bad. Unfortunately it looks like his fielding is as bad as it was when he first came up. I would have to imagine he has little to no trade value at this point. I think we have to hope he turns it around next year but still doesn't vest his option.

If you can't arbitrarily take out stats you certainly can't say if Weeks wasn't such a bad defender he would be decent. He is not a good defender and can't hit so he is not a good player and should not be starting.

[Invader3K]

Rickie is entering his later theoretical prime years. I don't know why some can't simply accept he's probably on the decline.