Trade Ramírez?

[brewcrewdue80]

He's under control through 2014, but the $16MM salary that he is guaranteed next year could be prohibitive for interested parties.

 

 

Seems their is interest after all? Of course. If Michael Young has 12 teams clamoring at him, The next best player is Aramis. There will be more teams listed showing interest on Monday, count it.

 

The money, like I said, will have to send some money along. If he's owed 4.+ remainder of this season and the 16 mil next season. Trading him away is a 4+mil net savings on this summer's payroll. The team stands around 84mil. So, send 8mil. Payroll for this season moves to a net 88mil. But the team is only on the hook at 75mil next year before a Gallardo/Weeks/Lohse trades to be worked if possible.

 

And still, like I said we've paid 6mil and 5.+mil thus far for ARam for 1.6 seasons of a 3/36 contract. So essentially the 8mil with the 11+ is paying almost exactly even on his contract for the length he's stayed here.

Though a trade with Boston, likely means Middlebrooks in return and maybe 1 other prospect. So, Melvin and his Scouts will have to believe in Middlebrooks at 3b. It wouldn't make sense for Boston to keep Middlebrooks trading for ARam.

The Yankees, I know they are looking to get under the luxury tax and ARod is joining the team so I'm not fully sold on the idea right now for them acquiring ARam.

Still have Baltimore as a fit imo. Their DHs have well read this excerpt from a Baltimore fan site:

The position that has fallen the most noticeably short of expectations is Designated Hitter, which was divided between Ryan Flaherty, Alexi Casilla, Chris Dickerson, and just recently, Nolan Reimold and Brian Roberts, just since their return from the DL.

 

I think Baltimore makes a play for ARam considering he'll be DH with backup at 3b for an in case Hardy/Machado injury. I feel like the prospects that Baltimore can offer fit more in line likely with an asking price to help their team, vs. the asking price for them to find another SP. It won't be earth shattering, but a couple younger Pitching prospects Parker Bridwell/Eduardo Rodriquez could at least provide something down the road if they learn to refine their pitching.

 

And of Course their's the Dodgers still lurking.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Ramirez isn't the next best player to Michael Young. He's a better player than Young. Yes, I know he's injured. If he gets even a little more healthy though, he's a far better option than Michael Young. The only thing that may pull them back together if Ramirez's salary, but that shouldn't really deter teams like Boston, New York, and LA much. Ramirez is controlled beyond this season though, and Young isn't.

[brewcrewdue80]

Ramirez isn't the next best player to Michael Young. He's a better player than Young. Yes, I know he's injured. If he gets even a little more healthy though, he's a far better option than Michael Young. The only thing that may pull them back together if Ramirez's salary, but that shouldn't really deter teams like Boston, New York, and LA much. Ramirez is controlled beyond this season though, and Young isn't.

 

Yeah, ARam's definitely better than Young. But for the cost/rental other team's may view him as better than ARam to trade for.

 

I just think that the Phillies GM has been all about approaching themselves as Buyers not sellers and he doesn't view Young as being necessary to trade, so the prospect return will have to be high enough to convince him hanging on to Young isn't better.

 

So to me, 12 teams have an interest in a player who's not really even on the trade market but only if you overpay in trade to acquire him....Or there's ARam who's better just injured. It's just fairly laughable that a guy who was a -2WAR last season is a guy a team is willing to overpay in prospects for when he's having a "Good year" while still at -.1WAR for it?

 

I just don't find the logic asking for Young vs. just ponying up the money for ARam this year and next and improving your chances more? If you're making a push to win, do so, don't do so by acquiring mediocre players?

[PrinceEatMeat]

Yep, I completely agree. Young isn't a difference maker. Ramirez definitely is. I think teams will come calling if he proves to be healthy enough when he comes off the DL. All of the interest in Young baffles me actually. The Phillies also may not end up even being sellers, so most of those suitors could turn to Ramirez. I think the market for him may end up materializing, and with the news of the Red Sox and Yankees possibly scouting, I think it already is.

[Kelbysdaddy]

A-ram will likely be out an extra 10-14 days after he is able to come off the DL apparently. Looks like he's staying.

[PrinceEatMeat]

A-ram will likely be out an extra 10-14 days after he is able to come off the DL apparently. Looks like he's staying.

 

Not necessarily. With his contract, he's a perfect August trade candidate.

[monty57]

A-ram will likely be out an extra 10-14 days after he is able to come off the DL apparently. Looks like he's staying.

 

Not necessarily. With his contract, he's a perfect August trade candidate.

 

Again, I could see someone like the Dodgers claiming him (if he's healthy) leaving the Brewers to either let him go for salary relief or pull him off waivers.

[PrinceEatMeat]

A-ram will likely be out an extra 10-14 days after he is able to come off the DL apparently. Looks like he's staying.

 

Not necessarily. With his contract, he's a perfect August trade candidate.

 

Again, I could see someone like the Dodgers claiming him (if he's healthy) leaving the Brewers to either let him go for salary relief or pull him off waivers.

 

Or work out a trade with the Dodgers. Letting him go or pulling him back aren't the only options when a team claims a player. A trade negotiation window opens between the team and the claiming team after the claim is put in.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I think the best plan with Ramirez would be to sit him out the rest of July, then slip him through waivers on August 1 before activating him. Then hopefully he'll be pretty healthy, have a few good weeks, and get traded somewhere.

[Bombers]

How about this scenario: Rodriguez gets suspended for 1 full season - thus saving the Yankees $25+ million and enticing them to trade for Ramirez (probably not until he returns in August though.) I doubt anyone would claim him with that salary so he would pass through waivers.

[RockCoCougars]

If anyone claims Ramirez, you just let them have him. I think that's highly doubtful though.

[brewcrewdue80]

How about this scenario: Rodriguez gets suspended for 1 full season - thus saving the Yankees $25+ million and enticing them to trade for Ramirez (probably not until he returns in August though.) I doubt anyone would claim him with that salary so he would pass through waivers.

 

Yes, this does have some appeal, and maybe the tweet suggesting they were going to scout ARam, is due to their knowledge of an ARod Suspension lurking.

 

Now, again 25mil for ARod depending on how many games it is for 2014 100 would leave ARod with roughly a 9.75mil obligation on the Yanks Payroll. Right on line with ARam's salary for 2014 being 16mil so total 25mil afterall.

But, they are still working towards that Luxury tax threshold, and are going to work hard to keep Cano. 25mil likely for him. The Yanks have 11 players set to become FAs after this season. on an already set 119mil payroll. Leaving them 45mil or less to replace those 10 spots on their roster after resigning Cano. I'm sure it's doable but ARod's suspension certainly creates a bit of wiggle room.

 

But who do you get in return for ARam? Seems the Yanks have a number of Pitching prospects to pick from so that's encouraging.

[fondybrewfan]

I'll second that; if any team will take on Aram you let him go. Even if you get nothing out of it. It creates a giant hole at 3rd in 2014 but we would have a whole offseason to figure it out.

[Roderick]

I'll second that; if any team will take on Aram you let him go. Even if you get nothing out of it. It creates a giant hole at 3rd in 2014 but we would have a whole offseason to figure it out.

 

It would seem the worst case scenario of J.Francisco or T. Green or J. Bianchi plugging the giant hole. But, yes, hopefully they would find a 3B for someone they trade away this season.

[PrinceEatMeat]

The Yankees are definitely the perfect trade partner for Ramirez. They will definitely be desperate after A-Rod gets suspended. Heck, they would be desperate even if he wasn't getting suspended. They need bats. I could definitely see them trading for him in August. They have even be desperate enough to trade for him before July 31 if he does happen to return before then.

[yoshii8]

With Aram looking pretty good, and hitting home runs on back to back days, I think he'll probably start generating some interest around the league.

[MNBrew]

This will probably be viewed as blasphemy around here, but I'd strongly prefer to see Ramirez manning 3B for us next year.

 

Sure, the salary is quite large (but not outrageous for his typical production). And he'll be coming off an injury-plagued year. But he's historically VERY productive, this year has shown the effects of the lack of big-time bats in the lineup, and I honestly see him as much closer to being a "sure thing" than any of the other "in house" options at 3B (though I'd love to see Taylor Green prove me wrong . . . . I also don't think we see Gamel at 3B on any prolonged basis).

 

While it's theoretically good to have more payroll flexibility and some bigger $$ available for FAs or trades, I just don't see who we could either...

- likely sign (assuming they'd also see MIL as their preferred option) or

- take on from another team in something other than a salary dump that would be worth the $$ or

- acquire as a highly productive player (position or pitcher) who'd fill an affordable hole without blowing another equally bad one in the roster

... that would amount to a net gain by trading Ramirez and his salary.

 

To my thinking, the sum total of moving Ramirez just to be out from under his contract doesn't automatically ensure any other valid returns or possibilities to justify the move in the first place.

 

The only player we currently have who I think could become a regular, multiple-year 3B is Taylor Green, whom I feel has the potential to be a LH version of Jeff Cirillo (in most respects). But since he's missed this whole year, I hardly see him convincing Roenicke & Melvin that he's ready to be the starting 3B before spring training's over. Other than another injury-replacement situation, the most realistic timing for Green to become the starter would be after a July-deadline trade of Ramirez.

[TooLiveBrew]

To my thinking, the sum total of moving Ramirez just to be out from under his contract doesn't automatically ensure any other valid returns or possibilities to justify the move in the first place.

Do you genuinely believe that they will be contenders next season? If not, I don't see what would be gained from sticking with Aramis. If the team isn't contending & they could get a decent prospect in return, that makes sense to me -- not to mention moving (some or all of) his salary. $16M ($20M, including the $4M buyout of his 2015 mutual option) is no pedestrian sum for a club like the Brewers, and frankly I'd find it pretty negligent of management to keep that kind of salary for an older player on the books for a non-contending club.

 

~30 IP of K-Rod brought back a legit prospect, & I'm confident a full season of Ramírez would at least equal that return.

[RockCoCougars]

I think that it's too little too late regarding Ramirez. I'd be pretty surprised if anyone would take on that salary for next season without asking for a big chunk of it from the Brewers, and I wouldn't do that

[logan82]

I would if we could get a good return. The money is spent either way. Do we want the old player who will only be around one year or do we want a good young player who will help us for years to come?

[JohnBriggs12]

I would if we could get a good return. The money is spent either way. Do we want the old player who will only be around one year or do we want a good young player who will help us for years to come?

 

What good young player? Ramirez's contract precludes them getting a quality prospect in return. If they are out of it next year and Ramirez is productive, he'll likely bring back more at the deadline than he will now.

 

Melvin has never given one signal that he's throwing in the towel on 2014. Nor should we expect him to at this stage of his career. It's up to the owner. If Attanasio wants a complete rebuild, then he'll need to replace his 61 year old GM and put in a younger guy willing to wait. I think we are at least a year or two away from that.

[MNBrew]

To my thinking, the sum total of moving Ramirez just to be out from under his contract doesn't automatically ensure any other valid returns or possibilities to justify the move in the first place.

Do you genuinely believe that they will be contenders next season? If not, I don't see what would be gained from sticking with Aramis. If the team isn't contending & they could get a decent prospect in return, that makes sense to me -- not to mention moving (some or all of) his salary. $16M ($20M, including the $4M buyout of his 2015 mutual option) is no pedestrian sum for a club like the Brewers, and frankly I'd find it pretty negligent of management to keep that kind of salary for an older player on the books for a non-contending club.

 

~30 IP of K-Rod brought back a legit prospect, & I'm confident a full season of Ramírez would at least equal that return.

I think they're a 2014 team that, if many things go very well and few if any things go horribly bad, they do have a legit chance. Would I take it to the bank that they're contenders? Of course not -- way too many variables. But I don't think it's impossible. Much depends on the pitching, specifically the rotation.

 

TLB, your premise seems based on the assumption that they can get something worthwhile in return AND put someone capable at 3B. That combination's not a given, though starting a healthy Taylor Green is still very intriguing to me. Ramirez's 2014 salary is extremely justified IF his production is in line with his career norms.

 

I disagree with your position that the team automatically needs to move his contract if they're not contending. They don't have to shed Ramirez's contract. Melvin's proven to be pretty shrewd in my book -- he'll listen, and if the right move is there, he'll make it. However, like (though obviously not the same as) Prince Fielder after 2010, any trade HAS to be a good "baseball" trade for the Brewers or they're usually better off not making it.

[sveumrules]

I'm in the "stuck with Ramirez" for 2014 camp myself.

 

His oldness, hurtness and expensiveness will preclude us from getting any kind of return without eating a bunch of money and that just doesn't seem like DMGM's style. It'd be one thing if we had anything resembling an in house replacement but that cupboard looks to be bare as well.

[logan82]

I would if we could get a good return. The money is spent either way. Do we want the old player who will only be around one year or do we want a good young player who will help us for years to come?

 

What good young player? Ramirez's contract precludes them getting a quality prospect in return.

That is why you pay a large portion of the contract as stated in post #44.

 

I think that it's too little too late regarding Ramirez. I'd be pretty surprised if anyone would take on that salary for next season without asking for a big chunk of it from the Brewers, and I wouldn't do that

 

 

If they are out of it next year and Ramirez is productive, he'll likely bring back more at the deadline than he will now.

You are counting on Ramirez being healthy until next year's deadline.

 

 

 

Melvin has never given one signal that he's throwing in the towel on 2014. Nor should we expect him to at this stage of his career. It's up to the owner. If Attanasio wants a complete rebuild, then he'll need to replace his 61 year old GM and put in a younger guy willing to wait. I think we are at least a year or two away from that.

Of course he probably will hold onto Ramirez. I don't care when Melvin is retiring. I will be a fan long after he is gone so I hate moves being made for Melvin's own selfish reasons. The most likely move is some foolish signing of a veteran scrapheap pitcher in a desperate attempt to be a playoff team next year.

 

 

TLB, your premise seems based on the assumption that they can get something worthwhile in return AND put someone capable at 3B.

If they are not competing next year all they really need is roster filler at 3B. I think Green can be more than that but at worst he should at least be roster filler. We will need a 3B going into 2015 whether or not we hang onto Ramirez. I sincerely hope he is not still with the team in 2015. I just don't trust him to stay healthy.

[TigerUppercut]

Move Braun back to third. Solved.