Trade Ramírez?

[monty57]

Ramirez would really need to prove that his knee magically healed to 100% in two weeks for Ramirez to have any trade value at all. I think the best case for the Brewers is that he heals up enough to get traded in August. Next best would be for them to get something for him in the offseason. In the likely event that his injury will linger until he has it fixed, the best scenario may be that someone claims him on revocable waivers and the Brewers let them have him in order to save $20MM+.

 

I do, however, hold out hope that other teams believe that Gallardo's troubles are temporary and trade a good package to get him. I just think Ramirez would bring negative value to the trade assuming the Gallardo trade will be done prior to the trade deadline.

[jackailius]

I really hope we actually catch a break and Ramirez does come back healthy and goes on a mini tear and warning track power's trade option comes to fruition but I fear monty hit this one on the head.

[brewcrewdue80]

Ramirez would really need to prove that his knee magically healed to 100% in two weeks for Ramirez to have any trade value at all. I think the best case for the Brewers is that he heals up enough to get traded in August. Next best would be for them to get something for him in the offseason. In the likely event that his injury will linger until he has it fixed, the best scenario may be that someone claims him on revocable waivers and the Brewers let them have him in order to save $20MM+.

 

I do, however, hold out hope that other teams believe that Gallardo's troubles are temporary and trade a good package to get him. I just think Ramirez would bring negative value to the trade assuming the Gallardo trade will be done prior to the trade deadline.

 

How does Ramirez hold negative value in trade? I think the negative value only comes at full price for him. But every couple million say to 10mil sent to a team makes him a fantastic value/get for the potential return he may provide. I feel like 8mil. sent over in the trade completely changes ARam's value for trade. 4mil for next year and the other 4mil for buyout.

He's injured yet still outperforms many 3b with the bat including MiddleBrooks. This really all boils down to who gets Young, what San Diego asks for Headley and then it's Aramis with the kind of bat that typically outperforms both those two options.

 

When you are trying to win a WS, Aramis has the kind of bat that can propel a team more likely than what Marco Scutaro's did for San Fran last season. But it's Scutaro's kind of run that will make it too enticing for a team to pass on Aramis if they truly see him as that piece that could take them over the top. Imagine ARam behind David Ortiz?

[monty57]

Ramirez would really need to prove that his knee magically healed to 100% in two weeks for Ramirez to have any trade value at all. I think the best case for the Brewers is that he heals up enough to get traded in August. Next best would be for them to get something for him in the offseason. In the likely event that his injury will linger until he has it fixed, the best scenario may be that someone claims him on revocable waivers and the Brewers let them have him in order to save $20MM+.

 

I do, however, hold out hope that other teams believe that Gallardo's troubles are temporary and trade a good package to get him. I just think Ramirez would bring negative value to the trade assuming the Gallardo trade will be done prior to the trade deadline.

 

How does Ramirez hold negative value in trade? I think the negative value only comes at full price for him. But every couple million say to 10mil sent to a team makes him a fantastic value/get for the potential return he may provide. I feel like 8mil. sent over in the trade completely changes ARam's value for trade. 4mil for next year and the other 4mil for buyout.

He's injured yet still outperforms many 3b with the bat including MiddleBrooks. This really all boils down to who gets Young, what San Diego asks for Headley and then it's Aramis with the kind of bat that typically outperforms both those two options.

 

When you are trying to win a WS, Aramis has the kind of bat that can propel a team more likely than what Marco Scutaro's did for San Fran last season. But it's Scutaro's kind of run that will make it too enticing for a team to pass on Aramis if they truly see him as that piece that could take them over the top. Imagine ARam behind David Ortiz?

 

I've said this before, but if you have to pay $10MM to get rid of someone, that's negative value.

 

If his knee hadn't gotten hurt, and if he had continued to hit like he did last year, then teams may overlook the $20MM he's owed for next year's service. I still don't think they'd get a top prospect for him, but they may have gotten something in addition to the salary relief.

 

Unfortunately, he did hurt his knee, and it seems to be at least somewhat serious. Right now he's on the DL and the trade deadline is coming up quickly. This entire season he's either been on the DL or on very limited duty because of the knee, so GM's are going to be very wary of trading for him. There is a chance that he will need to miss significant portions of the remainder of his contract, but he is owed the money whether he plays or not.

 

I just know that if I were a GM (even of a big-market team), I wouldn't take the risk that Ramirez's knee was going to hold out. Even if he didn't have a huge payday next year, I wouldn't give up anything of value because of that risk. Add in the big contract in 2014, and in my opinion, any positive from his play is more than offset by the mix of his injury and his contract.

 

I'll stop talking about Ramirez now, as this is a thread about Gallardo (someone who does have significant trade value).

[Roderick]

How does Ramirez hold negative value in trade?

 

Could the Brewers trade him away for a bag of balls right now? No, I don't think they could. So he has negative value.

 

If he comes back on July 22 and plays well for 10 games and some team is desperate, then we could trade him for something. But if he comes back and still needs games off and still isn't hitting, then we would not get a trade for him.

 

One thing is, he will clear waivers so we can trade him after the deadline.

[splitterpfj]

How does Ramirez hold negative value in trade?

 

Could the Brewers trade him away for a bag of balls right now? No, I don't think they could. So he has negative value.

 

If he comes back on July 22 and plays well for 10 games and some team is desperate, then we could trade him for something. But if he comes back and still needs games off and still isn't hitting, then we would not get a trade for him.

 

One thing is, he will clear waivers so we can trade him after the deadline.

 

This, is likely the only way Aramis is moved this season. He's good, and he's proven, for sure, but he's had a bad knee all season, that didn't respond after his first trip to the DL. It's a shame, because he would have been an excellent trade chip right now.

[brewcrewdue80]

No way would Ramirez be valued less than a bag of balls!

 

Come on! Teams are salivating at Michael Young all 6HRs 28RBI and .288/.344/.414 of him!

A weakened Aramis has 5HRs 26RBI .271/.359/.414 in about 30 less games and is owed less than Young this year.

 

There's reports of 12 teams asking about Young. So there's a want for a 3b.

 

edit add:

Remember it is 3/36 for ARam. We've gotten 203 games from him for thus far 11+mil. Tossing 8mil is essentially just changing the backloaded contract to an even 12mil every season. We'd have paid 19mil roughly for 1.6seasons of the 3/36mil contract.

[brewmann04]

If he healthy and gets hot i totally agree.

[monty57]

Remember it is 3/36 for ARam. We've gotten 203 games from him for thus far 11+mil. Tossing 8mil is essentially just changing the backloaded contract to an even 12mil every season. We'd have paid 19mil roughly for 1.6seasons of the 3/36mil contract.

 

This is kind of like the logic of the couple losing their house to foreclosure who still try to convince themselves that taking the home equity loan for the trip to Hawaii was worth it.

 

If he healthy and gets hot i totally agree.

 

And that is the key point. Trading for a player with a bad knee is the kind of move that can get a GM fired. There is too much risk that the injury will persist. The potential upside isn't worth the risk that Ramirez may spend a good portion of the remainder of his contract on the DL, and may see his numbers drop off due to the injury and age. Combining the injury, the fact that he'll be 36 next year, and the $20MM 2014 price tag, I can't imagine anyone would give up anything of value for Ramirez.

 

As I and others have said, the only hope of trading him is if he shows he's healthy, and since he's on the DL and the deadline's approaching, he probably won't be able to show he's healthy until after the trade deadline. That could mean an August deal, as he will likely make it through waivers, or it could mean an offseason deal. I still think the $20MM paycheck will weigh heavily in a deal, so even if he's healthy, there's a good chance the Brewers would need to eat some money in order to bring anything back in trade, which could smell an awful lot like a salary dump deal.

 

So, we're hoping he heals fully and quickly (which has not been the case so far since he injured the knee in Spring Training), and that a free spneding, big money team in need of a third baseman/DH will be so blinded by playoff lust that they will look past the $20MM contract. That seems to leave the Dodgers, Red Sox and Yankees, and the Red Sox and Yankees have been spending the past couple of years trimming payroll to get below the luxury tax limit.

 

Maybe we should've just traded him to the Dodgers last year when they were looking to give us some of their pitching prospects (Eovaldi? Lee?) for Ramirez. Oh yeah, those of us who were hoping that would happen were being ridiculed because we were going to be a playoff team this year and Ramirez was having a good season and his signing was one of the best things Melvin had ever done.

[JohnBriggs12]

I believe is value is negative. Even if he has a relatively healthy final 2 months, that contract for 2014 will be hard to move this winter much less now. The Brewers really have no choice but to hold on to him, hope his knee responds and that he either helps them contend in 2014, or does enough that someone will rent him next July when the contract won't be an issue.

[brewcrewdue80]

Everyone keeps harping his contract, his knees. It stands at 1.4yrs 24+mil if traded for. Are Arams knees never going to heal this offseason?

 

I'm just struggling to see just how much in this new tv contract revenue era how much of an overpay ARam is getting to the value of his projected production?

Let's run this season through as if he were a FA. His knees likely are improved. What does ARam get on a 1yr contract? If Corey can command 9-10mil I expect Aramis can also, if not more.

It's like I said elsewhere. The potential Positive impact Aramis can give a Playoff team is real. Not some utility guy Michael Young numbers that the slash looks good/ok but the fillets aren't there.

[Roderick]

Everyone keeps harping his contract, his knees. It stands at 1.4yrs 24+mil if traded for. Are Arams knees never going to heal this offseason?

 

1.4 years or 0 years if he is never healthy. And yes, when we are talking about an older guy (but still younger than me), I would not assume he will "heal" to 100% baseball shape.

[monty57]

This season, Ramirez has 181 ABs, so he's been able to play about 1/2 time. We don't know where he will be going forward, but the injury that has kept him out so far this year has him on the DL right now. I hope that the Brewers keep him off the field until he is 100%, even if that means he doesn't get another PA this season, and even if it means surgery. So far, with their "go for it at all costs" mentality, they have thrown him on the field on injured knees, so I hope they see the light at some point, and just let him heal. Sad as it is to say, I doubt the Brewers will do this.

 

But, looking at that 50% playing time, would give up anything for the right to pay $25MM for 1.5 seasons of Ramirez, with a .773 OPS only playing 1/2 the games. If the injury lingers (which knee injuries have been known to do), you could get 80-90 games out of him, maybe 10-15 HR, and pay him $25MM. Or, he could end up needing surgery in which case you pay the $25MM plus the medical costs and get nothing in return.

 

There is just too much risk there. If, during the offseason, he can work out for some team and show that he has full mobility and speed, then they can decide if they're willing to pay $20MM for a season of Ramirez. He has enough of a track record that teams won't necessarily have to see how he hits in live games, but he does have to prove himself healthy.

[gregmag]

Remember it is 3/36 for ARam. We've gotten 203 games from him for thus far 11+mil. Tossing 8mil is essentially just changing the backloaded contract to an even 12mil every season. We'd have paid 19mil roughly for 1.6seasons of the 3/36mil contract.

 

This is kind of like the logic of the couple losing their house to foreclosure who still try to convince themselves that taking the home equity loan for the trip to Hawaii was worth it.

 

This is a snappy line, but it doesn't seem to make any sense. I understand the implicit value judgment, which you long ago settled on. But I think the argument in the post you quoted was that, by backloading Ramirez's contract, we gained surplus value last year, and if we now pay some of that surplus value to make a trade happen, we can come out ahead in the aggregate. Whether that's true depends, of course, on how much money we put into the trade and what prospect(s) we get back. But how is deciding whether or not to put money into a trade "kind of like" rationalizing a poor decision in the past?

 

Oh yeah, those of us who were hoping that would happen were being ridiculed because we were going to be a playoff team this year and Ramirez was having a good season and his signing was one of the best things Melvin had ever done.

 

I know your point here is to assert, without actually documenting, that you're smarter than other people. But I really have to call you on your claims (here and elsewhere) of persecution. Someone "ridiculed" you? Who? When? (Ground rule: disagreement is not the same thing as ridicule.)

[TheCrew07]

I know your point here is to assert, without actually documenting, that you're smarter than other people. But I really have to call you on your claims (here and elsewhere) of persecution. Someone "ridiculed" you? Who? When? (Ground rule: disagreement is not the same thing as ridicule.)

 

I can appreciate that you have made correcting Monty a personal crusade, however the original Ramirez thread is has plenty of condescension, which I would qualify as ridicule. The vast majority of the discussion is productive with well thought out posts, but there's garbage in there.

 

Dodgers interested in Aramis Ramirez

 

I only went through page 5.

 

I like how the small market mentality has now convinced some posters here that a player being paid what he is worth and performing at that level is now overpaid and an albatross contract.

And HUGE lol at hating the first extension.

Anyone criticizing the Braun extension probably isn't much of a Brewers fan, or hasn't been a Brewers fan for very long.

Excuse me, is the season over? Some of these trades that are posted on here would only make sence if there was nothing left to play for this year.

 

That's also just one discussion, this board has not been particularly kind to or tolerating of anti DM/MA sentiments until recently. The ideas discussed by myself, Monty, and others haven't been all that well received: cycling talent, staying away from FA pitching, trading productive MLB players for pieces of greater need, and the list goes on.

 

From a more recent thread this was directed at me and I didn't bother to respond because discussing the same issues continually is very old:

We know very well what you've been suggesting - trade away anyone as soon as they get good assuming that someone will give up young pitching for them that would always pan out and not get hurt. Those of us who waited patiently and painfully for 26 years for a playoff team to cheer for and be proud of disagree. You've been missing our point all these years.

 

The poster claimed I was missing the point, as if I haven't been a fan of the Brewers my entire life (I'm 38), or I haven't suffered along with everyone, and when I have ever suggested trading everyone? There's a difference between skimming someone's posts and making an effort to truly understand, I highly doubt this poster could repeat to me what my actual position on this or any particular issue truly is. I think the same can be said for Monty, who puts tremendous effort into his posts but they tend to run long like mine, and I doubt everyone will read them all the way through. In the case above I've basically been talking about the idea that we traded being truly competitive year in and year out for 2 shots at the playoffs. That's why I hadn't liked a single move Melvin had made prior to the Greinke trade, he quit building the organization and started patching the roster on a yearly basis.

 

Your a sharp guy, I enjoy reading your posts even though you don't agree with me, and I do understand that you're much more in the middle on these issues. However, it doesn't matter how many times or how many different ways organization building has been discussed, the same generic throw away responses keep coming back. To suggest that the board as a whole hasn't been extremely dismissive regarding the ideas presented as an alternative to the DM/MA roster management plan is a disservice to the truth. Even now when we're directly faced with paying the cost for operating in a certain manner, the same justifications and dismissals are being tossed around... prospects fail, DM made the only moves he could, yea but we made the NLCS once!, and so on. I appreciate that fact, I know from reading his posts that Monty appreciates that the playoff appearances mattered deeply to people, but we've been talking about this dark cloud which has been coming for years and so many posters wanted to pretend didn't or doesn't exist... "This all just bad luck" and/or "The trades played out the only way they could".

 

We're coming at the issues from 2 entirely different perspectives, it's not hard to understand why people think DM/MA have been great for Milwaukee, but I wonder why it's been so difficult to appreciate the arguments from coming from the other side? I never wanted to be a flash in the pan franchise who will rise up once or twice every 20 years when we have a string of fantastic drafts in a row and then fade away. I want to win a WS, I got a small taste that I barely remember in '82, basically I want to be truly competitive 4 out of 5 years. I'm okay taking a small step back to move forward again, but can the same be said for the majority of posters on this forum?

 

We're behind the curve in our own division, we're to St. Louis as the Vikings are to the Packers. One team has a storied history as a franchise and somehow manages to remain relevant on a yearly basis, the other signs the first team's cast-offs and rises up every once in a while to contend before fading away. This isn't about "I told you so", but I would have thought the recent struggles would have at least added some credibility to what Monty and people like myself have been saying. This isn't bad luck, it was obviously predictable, but it doesn't have to get worse, it doesn't all have to come crashing down. Our pitching staff isn't good now, and the rest of the division is getting younger and more dynamic from a pitching standpoint (with the exception of the Cubs who have the best collection of position prospects in the game). We don't stack up against the Reds, Cards, or Pirates now, and with the status quo the situation is only going to get worse as our pitchers continue past their physical prime.

 

Honestly I'm deathly afraid of the Brewers becoming the Bucks, always in the middle thinking that picking up a couple of different veterans or maybe having a couple of good breaks go their way and they are a legitimate contender. If one NLCS is to be our peak like the Conference Finals was for the Bucks with the Big 3, then what exactly is there to be excited about? Everything already went the Brewers way in 2011 or we don't get that far, we didn't have any better depth then than we do now. The NLCS isn't good enough for me, I want the Brewers to be a power franchise in baseball, but operating the way have and continue to, that's never going to happen. It's impossible to acquire enough talent to make that goal a reality if the focus is always on "now". Maybe that's unrealistic goal for Milwaukee, but I see TB doing it with a third of our payroll, why can't we beat them at their own game? TB broke out in 2008, the same year as the Brewers, they've won more games than us in a much tougher division, maybe the toughest division in baseball. It can be done but requires a much different path than the one we've been on.

 

The way things are going attendance will plummet with the Brewer's record like it did for the Bucks, which will make a fire sale necessary, and then we'll be starting over from scratch, which is the exact scenario I've been talking about avoiding for years. How many years of mediocrity will take it for the Brewers to fall below 2 million in attendance? Looking at our system where are the next Gallardo or Sheets? Braun or Fielder? We were so blessed to have to so many position players reach their ceilings even with Weeks not quite getting there, how do we even repeat 2008-2011 in future?

 

The top of the 2012 draft could be special, but Haniger is closest player to Milwaukee and I'd be thrilled if he could put up similar numbers to Hart in his peak, and the rest of those guys are years away. Our core got old, started to decline from a production standpoint, and got injured, it was to be expected as that's what happens in sports, and we have little to replace that aging core. This is the reality of where we are, the question now is what's the best way to become and stay relevant moving forward?

[TooLiveBrew]

We're behind the curve in our own division, we're to St. Louis as the Vikings are to the Packers. One team has a storied history as a franchise and somehow manages to remain relevant on a yearly basis, the other signs the first team's cast-offs and rises up every once in a while to contend before fading away.

Wow. Ouch.

 

The truth -- it burns!

 

That is so painful & humbling... it's ... wow. I'd never thought of it that way.

[monty57]

[/i]This is a snappy line, but it doesn't seem to make any sense.

 

Sorry if it was unclear. The analogy was to compare someone making a decision for present day utility, which hurts you financially in the future. The Brewers structured the contract the way they did in order to fit Ramirez onto the 2012 roster when they couldn't afford his "market rate" in the 2012 payroll. They disregarded the future effects for current utility. Now they may have to pay someone to take him off their hands, and paying $8-10MM in 2014 for Ramirez to play elsewhere hurts the 2014 Brewers. That contract is now a big reason we may end up doing salary dump trades. Baseball doesn't have a foreclosure process, but being forced to pay for someone to take a player off your hands is about as close as it comes.

 

I know your point here is to assert, without actually documenting, that you're smarter than other people.

 

No it's not. It's that I've unfortunately been correct a couple of times in which I wish I was incorrect. Being correct doesn't mean your smarter. Intelligent people disagree with each other all the time. I suppose I could go dig out some old IQ test results if you are looking for documentation, but I'm sure most people on this site could do the same thing... there are a lot of smart people here.

 

"Ridiculed" may not have been the correct term. A few of us have been told a number of times that we "live in fantasy land" or "aren't based in reality." This offseason, when I said the Brewers were heading downhill and the Lohse signing was a band-aid that wouldn't help much, and was done to help raise ticket sales, I had a few posters saying not-so-nice things about my "negativity." Does that count as ridicule? I'm not sure what your parameters are.

 

Really, I look at things from a business and financial aspect. I can't scout a baseball player... I don't have that skill. But I run a couple of businesses, so it gives me some insight into business that others might not have. Part of what I do includes doing some financial research on businesses. From that aspect, in my opinion, the Brewers have not been run well lately, and the current state of the franchise seemed to be a pretty obvious outcome based on moves we've made in the recent past. I want to be optimistic, but I don't want to be blinded by fandom.

 

It seems many more are jumping on the "negative bandwagon" I've been riding for a while. But again, I wish the other smart people had been right all along and that I had been wrong. I just don't think that's the case.

[brewcrewdue80]

I realize we're in the NL, but did we forget the AL has a DH? I get it that ARam's knees may not be all that great for this season especially in the field but, I'm going to take a guess and say that walking up to the plate for 3-5PAs in a game doesn't make a major impact on them and possibly even allows them to heal slightly over time.

 

MLBTR put out there Baltimore,Yankees, and Oakland who've gotten less than desired DH numbers. I guess you could put Baltimore of those teams as a logical fit, but the Yankees/Oakland he's too expensive.

I can see I'm in the minority in believing there's a market for ARam as it stands today. But, keeping my mind open.

I just look at the market from this past offseason and guys like Pagan/Victorino getting 10.5/13mil a year and believe Aramis is easily worth more if compared to those two. Next season at 20mil isn't set in stone it's 16/14 picking up the option 2/30. I can think of an AL team looking at him as a 3b/DH type player that is worth 15mil a year with his generally upper .800s OPS.

 

Take Boston. Needs a 3b. They take a flier on ARam. Next season will be Ortiz's last. So if he retires now Boston has a hole open for DH. If they pick up ARam's option while Cecchini takes his spot at 3b their DH problem is solved for 2015.

[monty57]

bcd80, I think the AL makes sense because of the DH, but even if healthy, his price tag still eliminates most teams. Boston is a potential, but aren't they (and the Yankees) still on a crusade to get below the luxury tax limit? I may be wrong on this and last year's trade with the Dodgers may have allowed them the breathing room they needed, but if they're still trying to cut payroll, they won't want to add a guy who'll add $16MM to the 2014 payroll.

 

That's why I mentioned the Dodgers earlier. They, and maybe the Angels, seem to be the only teams with a "who cares" attitude about payroll these days. I think there's a possibility that the Brewers try to get Ramirez through revocable waivers, the Dodgers claim him, and the Brewers have to decide whether to pull him back or let the Dodgers have him for nothing just to get the contract off the books.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens with Ramirez. Right now half of me believes we'll salary dump him and half of me believes he'll be in a Brewer uniform next season. I hope we get something of value for him, but I don't expect it.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 55m

When Aramis Ramirez returns from the disabled list Monday look for the Red Sox and Yankees to be scouting him. Both teams need a RH 3B.

 

Looks like there will be interest in Ramirez, and the Yankees and Red Sox are two teams that can take on his salary.

[craigharmann]

Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 55m

When Aramis Ramirez returns from the disabled list Monday look for the Red Sox and Yankees to be scouting him. Both teams need a RH 3B.

 

Looks like there will be interest in Ramirez, and the Yankees and Red Sox are two teams that can take on his salary.

 

 

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope that he's actually traded, along with a host of other guys!

[PrinceEatMeat]

Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 55m

When Aramis Ramirez returns from the disabled list Monday look for the Red Sox and Yankees to be scouting him. Both teams need a RH 3B.

 

Looks like there will be interest in Ramirez, and the Yankees and Red Sox are two teams that can take on his salary.

 

 

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope that he's actually traded, along with a host of other guys!

 

I just hope Ramirez can come back and hit well for a the week + headed into the deadline. I think there's a really good chance he'll get traded if he can do that. He'll also have to show he's relatively healthy though, and not be limping around like he was before he went back on the DL.

[narwhalattack]

Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 55m

When Aramis Ramirez returns from the disabled list Monday look for the Red Sox and Yankees to be scouting him. Both teams need a RH 3B.

 

Looks like there will be interest in Ramirez, and the Yankees and Red Sox are two teams that can take on his salary.

 

 

Even though it's unlikely that Ramirez will net much, in terms of prospects the Red Sox have more to offer than the Yankees.

[monty57]

From Steve Adams at MLBTradeRumors.com (coincides with PEM's post):

 

The Red Sox have scouted both Alex Rios and Michael Young recently, according to Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe (on Twitter). Cafardo adds that the team is likely to scout Jake Peavy's next few starts for the White Sox as he returns from the disabled list. In a separate tweet, Cafardo reports that the Yankees and Red Sox are both likely to scout Aramis Ramirez next week when he returns from the disabled list.

 

Boston's in Rios is somewhat of a surprise, as both Shane Victorino and Jacoby Ellsbury have played well across the board, and Daniel Nava is hitting .288/.374/.429 while playing the outfield corners. Nava's OPS has declined in each month this season, however, and he grades out as a poor defender according to both Ultimate Zone Rating and The Fielding Bible. Rios would also present the Sox with a right field option if they wish to move Victorino to center field in 2014, should Ellsbury sign elsewhere (my own speculation).

 

The Young connection makes sense in light of recent reports that they're looking at upgrades on the left side of their infield. There's said to be "intense" interest in Young from a number of teams, and the Phillies could probably move him even if they don't wish to fully commit as sellers.

 

Ramirez hasn't hit for much power this season when on the field, but he's hitting .271 with a .359 on-base percentage, which should appeal to both teams. Neither has received much production at the hot corner. He's under control through 2014, but the $16MM salary that he is guaranteed next year could be prohibitive for interested parties.

 

Earlier today it was reported that the Red Sox are also interested in Houston's Bud Norris, and last night the Pirates were also connected to Rios.

[craigharmann]

Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 55m

When Aramis Ramirez returns from the disabled list Monday look for the Red Sox and Yankees to be scouting him. Both teams need a RH 3B.

 

Looks like there will be interest in Ramirez, and the Yankees and Red Sox are two teams that can take on his salary.

 

 

Even though it's unlikely that Ramirez will net much, in terms of prospects the Red Sox have more to offer than the Yankees.

 

Yes, but it frees up money for next year. If Ramirez, KRod, Ax, Aoki, Yo and Lohse are gone, that would be huge!!