Who is to blame for the atrocious 2013 season?

[BrewersSuperCollector]

Stan Kyles.

 

Seriously, I blame Mark Attanasio. He lowered the payroll, and gave Melvin a budget to work with. Then at the end of March Lohse was signed. I don't believe for one second the Lohse signing was Melvin's. I believe that was Attanasio pulling the strings at the last minute when Mark Rogers/Mike Fiers had trouble.

 

Why not trust your GM? Give Melvin that extra 11 million to build the team from the start. That accounts for something like 12% of the payroll.

[TURBO]

All of these moronic, single name/word replies may not have ruined the Brewers season...but they are ruining Brewerfan.net. That garbage used to be frowned upon here. Oh how this place has changed...

 

^ ^

 

Nothing wrong with a sense of humor on occasion. It's all we really have left from this lost season.

[nate82]

It's not Greinke/Marcum/Yo but I don't think many people thought on opening day that Gallardo/Lohse/Estrada/Peralta/Fiers was a looming disaster. I think people were more excited than worried about the rotation. It's easy to say he's been saddled with an awful rotation now that they've well, stunk, but I think on paper most people certainly expected better than this.

 

I am going to have to disagree here as there was plenty of concern over the rotation. At least I know I was worried about Gallardo as he was just barely getting out of the 6th inning in 2012. The Lohse signing wasn't a real answer to any problem the Brewers had and the bullpen was also a question mark but Melvin did an extremely good job in fixing that with the signings he made. The bullpen was really the only good spot coming into the season that saw improvements over 2012. The rotation looked to be very shaky especially with Gallardo at the top as his 2012 season wasn't all that good. If Gallardo didn't bounce back from his 2012 season no improvements from Lohse, Estrada, Peralta or Fiers would increase the Brewers odds of winning more games in 2013 than in 2012.

 

What we have right now is a breakdown of the rotation through injuries Estrada and ineffectiveness of Fiers and Gallardo. As for Peralta it was expected that he was going to struggle and have some successes this year so what you were going to get out of him was really a mystery. The only bright spot in the rotation right now is Lohse and if the Brewers wouldn't have signed Lohse I don't really see the Brewers record being any worse than it is right now.

 

In the beginning of this season I thought if the Brewers were healthy and everything went correctly they were an 80-85 win team. Now everything hasn't gone correctly and the Brewers are not healthy and they are looking at about a 65-70 win team. Which really falls on Melvin and Mark A as this team just does not have the talent to be a playoff team in the rotation. The Brewers do not have a #1 type pitcher they have a bunch of 3's and 4's. Gallardo really was the key for the Brewers competing this year and he has just fallen off a cliff production wise.

[davego]

Ed Donatell.

[logan82]

Stan Kyles.

 

Seriously, I blame Mark Attanasio. He lowered the payroll, and gave Melvin a budget to work with. Then at the end of March Lohse was signed. I don't believe for one second the Lohse signing was Melvin's. I believe that was Attanasio pulling the strings at the last minute when Mark Rogers/Mike Fiers had trouble.

 

Why not trust your GM? Give Melvin that extra 11 million to build the team from the start. That accounts for something like 12% of the payroll.

The brewers have to operate within a reasonable payroll range. I don't think throwing away another $11m would have helped this team. This is the bed Melvin and Mark A decided to make for themselves in 2011. Now we all have to live with it.

[Bombers]

Calm down bud. Nothing wrong to have a little bit of humor on a topic that everyone has already expressed their thoughts on. We all have our opinions but in the end it's Attanasio's opinion that matters.

[RobertR]

I blame Travis Ishikawa.

 

OK, not really, but the lack of a viable first baseman this year was certainly felt. The medical / training staff certainly haven't covered themselves in glory either, but perhaps that's just bad luck.

 

But, this certainly was a group effort. Especially by the starting rotation, minus Lohse who's been fine. Peralta started slow and Gallardo has certainly disappointed, but at least they've had their moments. Beyond that, blech.

[trwi7]

From the game thread

 

Apparently when I decide not to goto the game they play some decent baseball.

 

I blame AZBrewCrew

[Bombers]

I had to dig this up but I had posted these names about the status of our minor league pitching. It isn't just Doug Melvin who is responsible. And at the end if the day (to me) the failing of our major league has and continues to be our failing at drafting impact pitching talent. So if you want accountability here are some names

 

Front office list: http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/team/f ... p?c_id=mil.

 

Reid Nichols

Position: Director of Playor Development

Length at Position: 2002.

Links: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... cleid=5927

Comments: He has done a great job through 2005 when we drafted Braun. Then, ummmm ya, a whole lot of nothing. (I guess LaPorta and Lawrie worked out well for trades)

 

Bruce Seid

Position: Director of Amateur Scouting

Length at Position: 2008.

Links: http://onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/ ... html?17237, http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/34211659.html

Comments: Replaced Jack Zduriencik. Has been involved with scouting for 11 years in Brewers system prior to 2008 promotion.

 

Jim Rooney

Position: National Pitching Crosschecker

Length at position: 2008

Links: http://mlb.mlb.com/content/printer_frie ... 698991.jsp

 

Rick Tomlin

Position: Minor League Roving Pitching Coordinator

Length at Position / Background: 2012 - Mets fired him after 1 season (2011 - see link). Held same position with Yankee's from 02-04.

Links: http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/p ... inator-out

http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/a ... 6&c_id=mil

Comments: Mets saw enough of him after 1 year. Not sure what he is bringing to the table in his 2nd year here.

[TooLiveBrew]

All of these moronic, single name/word replies may not have ruined the Brewers season...but they are ruining Brewerfan.net. That garbage used to be frowned upon here. Oh how this place has changed...

Lighten up, Francis

[sveumrules]

Has the season really been that atrocious though?

 

Let's talk Lohse. Many didn't like the signing because he didn't make us a playoff team. Well if you're not a playoff team it's better to win 60 games than it is to win 79, and that is essentially what we are on pace to do. Entering the season the best any non HOU/MIA club could hope for was the 3rd pick in the 2014 draft, we're currently in line for the 4th pick. I'd say that is pretty good.

 

People bemoan the lack of impact talent in the system then bemoan the terrible field on the team which will give us the best chance to acquire future impact talent. It makes no sense to me. Would people be happier if we were hanging around .500 with Mark A/DMGM thinking we can go on a run and contend?

 

I think the season is going splendidly myself, and look forward to hopefully acquiring some new prospects in the coming weeks.

[chadomac]

Yes, some people do want this team to try and be a .500 team this year. Why? I don't know. They are embarassed to support a last place team, I guess... I really don't know. They aren't thinking about draft picks.

 

Brewer fans that jumped on the bandwagon in 2005 or later are spoiled, basically. There were far worse years than this in the past. There's plenty of reasons to think the team can compete again very soon. That hasn't always been the case.

[kalle8]

injuries.

 

without injuries the Brewers would be well ahead of the...Cubs.

[JohnBriggs12]

Yes, some people do want this team to try and be a .500 team this year. Why? I don't know. They are embarassed to support a last place team, I guess... I really don't know. They aren't thinking about draft picks.

 

Brewer fans that jumped on the bandwagon in 2005 or later are spoiled, basically. There were far worse years than this in the past. There's plenty of reasons to think the team can compete again very soon. That hasn't always been the case.

 

Can't agree more. It's not uncommon at all for teams to have to suffer through seasons like this one. They are unavoidable. Combine injuries and players having off years, and it can happen to anyone. This team got buried early on, and it seems a lot worse that it is. There's plenty of reasons to think with a more stable rotation, and better health for everyday players, that this team will be much better in 2014.

[Bombers]

While I whole heartedly agree, that if you are going to be bad - well then be very bad. Being .500 isn't a good model. Having said that, I don't want our next 5 years of draft picks to be like our last 5 years where we haven't drafted any pitching of use.

 

Like I said be bad and get that top 5 pick - that would be great - I just have my doubts that our current scouting dept will hit a HR with that pick. If you want change, to me, you need to look into our draft and development of minor league pitching. That is the area where changes should be made

[Roderick]

I blame ARam's knee and Harts knees for not allowing us to get some prospects in here.

 

I don't blame anyone for hoping that 2 out of: Peralta, Fiers, Burgos, Narveson would be average in the rotation. You had to try and see what would happen, it wasn't like we could afford to sign multiple free agent pitchers in the offseason. So when Gallardo and Estrada's hamstring go to pot there is anywhere much to blame other than our media contract or the pitching coach.

[paul253]

I think the two biggest culprits are:

 

1) The scouting department. The Greinke and Marcum trades depleted the system pretty badly but even before then there was no pitching. The continued development of Jimmy Nelson, Taylor Jungmann, and Tyler Thornburg leave some room for hope but there is not one pitcher in the entire organization with #1 potential and MAYBE one or two with #2 potential. Either the scouts are just terrible at evaluating a player's ceiling or they are being way too conservative with their picks (or most likely both).

 

2) Melvin. Melvin clings on to players for far too long and doesn't know when to maximize a player's value. Guys like John Axford and Corey Hart should have been traded years ago and a guy like Jim Henderson should be moved now. Melvin also hands out multiyear deals way too quickly, usually only needing one year of success to offer up the deal. I know most people loved the Carlos Gomez deal but not me. I think we are starting to see Gomez revert to career norms and I still believe he will end the year with his typical .270 batting average and .300 OBP. True he hits for power and provides great defense but not every player on the roster has to hit for power. After this season Melvin could have a) offered him a long term deal if he still wanted to or b) offered him a QO, which he'd probably turn down, and gain an additional comp pick. But instead we give him 4 years and $32 million because he had a so-so year last year. Finally, Melvin and his managers rarely give young players a chance. Unless you are a top prospect (Fielder, Braun, Weeks, Hart) or we have nobody else to play (Hardy, Escobar, Lucroy) you aren't going to get a chance. When you look at a team like St. Louis (and please someone correct me if I am wrong) guys like John Jay, Matt Carpenter, Allen Craig and David Freese were never top prospects but they were still given a chance and now make up the core of the lineup on the best team in baseball. I'm not saying guys like Taylor Green, Mat Gamel, Logan Schafer, and Scooter Gennett will have the success as those players but how is anybody going to have success when they don't play?

[Bombers]

Paul - I agree with #1 - our scouting sucks. Period.

 

For #2. I liked the Gomez signing as he is an awesome defensive talent. I am fine with him. There have been others Melvin has had to reach on Wolf, Suppan, etc because of our lack of drafting impact pitching talent. (See point 1) .... As for the question about not giving our prospects a chance. I agree with this to a point. But the issue is, we haven't had guys produce like the ones you mention from St. Louis. Those guys all hit .300+ in the minors. I don't know of guys in our system that are tearing up the minor leagues (at every level) and just not being given a chance.

 

Here is what I saw on the Cardinals you mentioned:

1. Jay - Drafted in 2006 - 2nd round. (We took Brent Brewer 14 picks before Jay) ... Minor league stat line: 301 / 367 / 435

2. Carpenter - 2009 - 13th round. (299 / 408 / 450)

3. Craig - 2006 - 8th round (308 / 369 / 518)

4. Freese - 2006 - drafted in 9th round by Padres. Traded to Cardinals for Jim Edmonds. (Minor league stat line of 307 / 384 / 531)

 

So of those 4 guys; they were all producing in the minors and continued to as they were bumped up through the system.

[paul253]

Well Gennett is a career .300 minor league hitter. His biggest problem is his lack of power. Taylor Green was a 2 time minor league player of the year for the Brewers, including IIRC the year before ARam was signed, with a career .289/.370/.452 line. Gamel .310/.372/.540 and Schafer .294/.354/.430. Given that Gennett and Schafer play positions that aren't normally hotbeds for power I'm not overly concerned about the lack of power and Schafer's defense, while maybe not as good as Gomez, is still well above average.

 

Granted the numbers are not quite as good as those St Louis players I mentioned but are still good enough to be given a shot early on. I realize there were some injury issues but it just seems like, as I mentioned, unless you are a top prospect or there is no other option you will not be given a fair chance in Milwaukee's lineup. They'll have no problem calling you up to sit on the bench but without an injury or struggling veteran playing time will be sparse. I think this is a huge problem with player development and is a big reason while Milwaukee's every day lineup next year may very well include 5 players 30 or older.

[Baldkin]

.297/.392/.504 for a career .896 minor league OPS.

Khris Davis got a measly 18 PA's before being sent back down. Ryan Braun has now only played in 58 of the Brewers 94 games. They couldn't have found some more PA's for him?

[brewmann04]

I agree the scouting is far under par and needs some shakeup. Especially since we're going to pick in the top 5 in 2014. I think the injures can't be overlooked as a major cause.

[Point Beer Is Best]

All of these moronic, single name/word replies may not have ruined the Brewers season...but they are ruining Brewerfan.net. That garbage used to be frowned upon here. Oh how this place has changed...

 

People also used to get banned for coming off as condescending and name calling.

[homer]

I have no one to blame but myself.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Jesus?

 

To paraphrase Jim Gaffigan, why is it that athletes are so quick to thank God for their success, but never blame him when things go wrong? "Yeah, I was doing great. I had a clear shot at the endzone - until Jesus* made me fumble..."

 

*Disclaimer - not a religious joke, it's observational humor.

[Hammer]

All of these moronic, single name/word replies may not have ruined the Brewers season...but they are ruining Brewerfan.net. That garbage used to be frowned upon here. Oh how this place has changed...

 

People also used to get banned for coming off as condescending and name calling.

 

I did not call anyone a name and it was meant to be a fact...not condescending. I get that humor is a good idea when a season is going down the crapper like this one but the well thought-out posts bring more to the discussion than the "Wendy" and "blame me" posts.

 

My take is the misses by the scouting department and some of the bad contracts that were handed out previously are coming back to haunt the team...