M-V-P, M-V-P...Mr Carlos Gomez, King of WAR

[splitterpfj]

Midseason MVP?

 

http://www.baseballintheblood.com/?p=1015

[RockCoCougars]

I'd probably vote for Goldschmidt at this point in the NL, and I don't even see him mentioned in the article.

[brwrsfan]

He could lead in WAR, but he plays on one of the worst teams in all of baseball. He'd have to have a season so far above and beyond everyone else to even be considered.

[thebruce44]

I'd probably vote for Goldschmidt at this point in the NL, and I don't even see him mentioned in the article.

 

Why?

 

How could you justify him over the 9 players ahead in WAR, specifically the 4 or 5 who are on competing teams?

[markedman5]

I think we all know Carlos isn't going to win the MVP.......

 

He has had a hell of a year though

[RockCoCougars]

I'd probably vote for Goldschmidt at this point in the NL, and I don't even see him mentioned in the article.

 

Why?

 

How could you justify him over the 9 players ahead in WAR, specifically the 4 or 5 who are on competing teams?

 

Look at the stats. Take him out of that lineup, and where would the D-Backs be? It seems like every time that I watch them play, Goldschmidt comes through with a big hit.

[thebruce44]

I'd probably vote for Goldschmidt at this point in the NL, and I don't even see him mentioned in the article.

 

Why?

 

How could you justify him over the 9 players ahead in WAR, specifically the 4 or 5 who are on competing teams?

 

Look at the stats. Take him out of that lineup, and where would the D-Backs be? It seems like every time that I watch them play, Goldschmidt comes through with a big hit.

 

I guess looking at the stats is what made me think he shouldn't win. I haven't watched much, but the clutch argument seems tough to quantify vs other players with similar numbers on winning teams who don't play 1B.

[HiAndTight]

I'd probably vote for Goldschmidt at this point in the NL, and I don't even see him mentioned in the article.

 

Why?

 

How could you justify him over the 9 players ahead in WAR, specifically the 4 or 5 who are on competing teams?

 

 

So should we now replace "MVP," with "Season WAR leader on a good enough team that deserves to have the MV....errr..."WAR," leader on it?

 

And a lot of these guys are so close in WAR you have to look a little bit deeper than that. How many people had AZ leading their division halfway through the year?

 

I think he's certainly credible.

[saget]

WAR is a pretty solid indicator of demonstrated value, no?

[thebruce44]

I'd probably vote for Goldschmidt at this point in the NL, and I don't even see him mentioned in the article.

 

Why?

 

How could you justify him over the 9 players ahead in WAR, specifically the 4 or 5 who are on competing teams?

 

 

So should we now replace "MVP," with "Season WAR leader on a good enough team that deserves to have the MV....errr..."WAR," leader on it?

 

And a lot of these guys are so close in WAR you have to look a little bit deeper than that. How many people had AZ leading their division halfway through the year?

 

I think he's certainly credible.

 

I don't think I even implied that. I was more referencing the fact that several players have put up better or similar numbers on competing teams and asking for him to make a case for Goldschmidt. His case was that he seems to have gotten big hits whenever he has been watching. I was hoping for more, and your point about AZ leading the division, while I don't agree with it, is along the lines of what I was expecting as it sometimes influences voters.

 

Lets not let this discussion morph into the old WAR debate please.

[thebruce44]

WAR is a pretty solid indicator of demonstrated value, no?

 

I like that it adjusts for position, but can certainly be skewed by defensive variations.

 

Perhaps people would be more accepting of VORP, which I don't believe considers defense, just position and offense. In the NL, it looks like you have Wright at 34.0, Shin-Soo Choo at 33.8, Votto at 33.5, Molina at 31.9, Posey at 31.6, Carpenter at 30.5, then 7th Goldschmidt at 28.6.

 

For just the batting component of WAR, which I believe would weight wOBA for position and nothing more: Votto at 25.8, Wright at 21.9, Posey at 21.0, Choo at 20.7, then 5th Goldschmidt at 20.6. Gomez is 10th with 16.6 as obviously a lot of his overall value is defensive and on the bases.

 

If people just flat out refuse to want any advanced metrics, in OPS, Cuddyer, Carlos Gonzalez and Votto are ahead of Goldschmidt. They all play offensive positions and are on competing teams.

[RockCoCougars]

Checked the stats, and with RISP, Goldschmidt is hitting .387, slugging .760 and OPS is over 1.2! Overall, 20 homers, leading the league in RBI's and his OPS over .930. Whats not to like? Arizona is not rolling, but they are in first place in that division, and I think that wouldn't be the case without Goldschmidt... he's accounted for almost 30 percent of their runs. The only knock on him is that he plays 1B, but what position player on a contender is having a better season with the bat? I don't see one.

[thebruce44]

Checked the stats, and with RISP, Goldschmidt is hitting .387, slugging .760 and OPS is over 1.2! Overall, 20 homers, leading the league in RBI's and his OPS over .930. Whats not to like? Arizona is not rolling, but they are in first place in that division, and I think that wouldn't be the case without Goldschmidt... he's accounted for almost 30 percent of their runs.

 

How many AB's is that sample from?

 

In 79 ABs Molina is hitting .392 with an OBP of .457 with RISP. And he's a catcher, not a 1B.

 

The only knock on him is that he plays 1B, but what position player on a contender is having a better season with the bat? I don't see one.

 

Cuddyer (2.5 back of the Dbacks), Gonzalez (2.5 back of the Dbacks), and Votto (better record, 4 back).

 

Anyway, I think I personally would vote for McCutchen. Great offensive numbers overall, even better as a CF. Then there is that defense and base running. And then the team aspect. Most wins in the majors and he's the only guy on the team batting over .300.

[MJLiverock]

Gomez may be hitting well enough this year to break the Brewer's Gold Glove drought.

[Outlander]

Gomez may be hitting well enough this year to break the Brewer's Gold Glove drought.

I think you may be correct about that. With Gomez though he actually deserves a gold glove versus others that have breakthrough offensive years and end up with a gold glove in the process.

[Thurston Fluff]

WAR is a pretty solid indicator of demonstrated value, no?

 

No. It is a flawed attempt to show a players value in a single number. It uses some metrics that are known to be flawed in the sample size they are using them in and rates the value of offense to defense as equal without actually knowing if they are of equal value. Something I highly suspect is not true.

[Bombers]

I don't know about him being MVP but Milwaukee is starring at a definite mid-season gold glove winner. GoGo might be our first gold glover in 31 years.

 

(And that catch tonight to rob Votto in the top of the 9th was spectacular)

[fondybrewfan]

Not taking anything away from Gomez, but that really is a catch every CF should be able to make. He was already playing no doubles depth and was camped under it for a while. It wasn't the easiest catch in the world but I would like to think most OF's would be able to haul that one back.

 

Gomez has been awesome though; it will be a travesty if he doesn't get a gold glove and maybe even silver slugger. Making the all star game should increase his exposure enough to get the gold glove votes he needs. There is no way that there are 3 other outfielders out there more dserving than him of the GG

[kalle8]

i think he deserves the gold glove but since last year (i think) there are three different winners for LF, CF and RF, so one spot for him and not three.

[Outlander]

I would agree that there are many other major leaguers that would make that catch but there are many players that can hit home runs but the walk off home run is still exciting. It is still a very exciting play by Gomez because I can't ever recall a game saving catch like that one that actually ended the game and would have resulted in the other team taking the lead if it wasn't caught. If somebody has other examples of when this happened I would love to see them because I can't remember a single one.

[chadomac]

It's more about the circumstances and the fact that you almost never see a game end in that way. I wouldn't say it's an easy play, but Gomez has made much better plays than that.

 

I think it's just getting to the point where you can't believe how often he does things like this. It's probably 4-5 in reality, but it feels like he robs home runs weekly - and it's just a joy to watch.

[brewcrewdue80]

I would agree that there are many other major leaguers that would make that catch but there are many players that can hit home runs but the walk off home run is still exciting. It is still a very exciting play by Gomez because I can't ever recall a game saving catch like that one that actually ended the game and would have resulted in the other team taking the lead if it wasn't caught. If somebody has other examples of when this happened I would love to see them because I can't remember a single one.

 

Does the Packers/Seahawks game count?

[SenatorShriv]

I don't think Gomez is the mid-season MVP but he should ABSOLUTELY be winning a Gold Glove. I don't have cable so I don't watch ESPN and Baseball Tonight - who else is even in consideration?

[RightFieldCoder]

Look at the stats. What other OFers are having a good offensive year?

[torts]

Look at the stats. What other OFers are having a good offensive year?

 

just in CF..

 

Adam Jones

Jacoby Ellsbury

Andrew McCutchen

Shin-Soo Choo

Brett Gardner

Colby Rasmus

Mike Trout (57 gms in CF this year)