Brewers should shop Gomez at deadline...

[adambr2]

For the life of me I can't understand why people are so high on Schafer. There seems to be a misconception that he's really excelled this year when given the opportunity. He is carrying a .580 OPS and has a negative WAR. How is that success?

 

He's carried some respectable, but not great, numbers in the minors. I don't see how it's going to translate to more than an average player, or a 2.0 or so WAR.

 

The dropoff from Gomez to Schafer, when considering all parts of their game, is significant right now.

[TheCrew07]

It's not like Scafer is the only CF candidate we have, Aoki can slide over to CF, then Gamel or Gindl can hold down RF until something better comes along. We have options in the OF.

 

Furthermore Logan's negative WAR comes through a grand total of 127 ABs over 3 months mostly in the Corner Outfield where his bat never projected to be average.

 

[pre]Year Tm Age Pos G GS CG Inn Fld%

2013 MIL 26 LF 18 13 13 129.1 1.000

2013 MIL 26 RF 7 5 5 47.1 1.000

2013 MIL 26 CF 5 4 3 37.2 1.000[/pre]

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 6/25/2013.

 

This is another case of people looking for reasons not to do something.

[JohnBriggs12]

The dropoff from Gomez to Gindl/Gamel might be larger than it is to Schafer. The Brewers having candidates to fill outfield positions (Prince, Halton and Davis are too), doesn't mean any of those guys is ready or ever will be ready to be an everyday OF at the major league level. The two best OF prospects in the organization right now might be Tyrone Taylor and Mitch Haniger both of whom are at least 2-3 years from the big leagues.

 

Relative to their production, Gomez and Aoki are two of the best bargains in baseball. If you want to trade one of them why not the one who is 4 years older (Aoki) and keep the guy who is just entering his prime?

[brewcrewdue80]

Why trade Gomez and worry about the dropoff from Schafer or any of the AAA guys? Simple his value currently plus the look ahead to where the Franchise stands in competing. Gomez has 2013-2016 left on this team. Barring some serious overpay in trade for any of our tradeable pieces, the Pitching Staff will never compete in our division meaning no Playoffs every year Gomez remains on the team. Meanwhile guys like Haniger/Taylor are being groomed at CF to take over right around when 2015/16 hit. But what isnt being groomed for when 2015/16 hit? Quality Ace Pitching.

 

Lohse isn't the answer. Gallardo is flashing signs of decline, like Weeks did last season. So it's left to the likes of Peralta/Hellweg/Jungmann/and Nelson to be the future Aces on the team before Gomez exits to FA 2016. Considering our record in finding and developing Aces, none of them will be better than Gallardo. The club needs to find a surefire Ace in the making. It would be great to time the run for WS around 2015/16 but w/o an ace it's not going to happen. Lohse/Gallardo will be gone leaving that 2016 run up to those 4 guys listed.

The teams I look at to find that ace for Gomez reside in Sea/NYM and maybe, just maybe in Arz. Can you imagine Archie Bradley for Gomez? Setting Arizona up for an Eaton,Gomez,Parra OF after this season? Or there's Walker from Seattle or Wheeler from the Mets. The Brewers have enough #3 guys to work with, what they don't have is a #2 with #1 potential. If they don't acquire that in trade for a rebuild then they will end up sending away high end prospects down the road to acquire that #1/2 Rental when they are in the playoff picture. Putting us once again where we stand today. High Talent at the top on the Roster but nothing behind it to fill the team in case of injuries or down years.

[TheCrew07]

Once again because of value. If we want young impact pitching we have to give up someone who warrants that kind of return. If a team is willing to give a legit top 10 pitching prospect plus another top 100 pitcher but wants Gomez we can't force them to take Aoki. As I've said many times I'm not really opposed to trading anyone. We may want to move Aoki but if a deal isn't there then what? We do nothing?

 

The better player is going to net the bigger return. I'm not into limiting options, my end game is 3 young top of the rotation starters. We can part with any 1 position player and still have a good offense.

 

Remember this off- season when few people were willing to trade Hart? How did that turn out? 1 player doesn't make an offense and the older players get the larger injury risks they become.

 

Edit: response to JB12

[adambr2]

It's not like Scafer is the only CF candidate we have, Aoki can slide over to CF, then Gamel or Gindl can hold down RF until something better comes along. We have options in the OF.

 

Furthermore Logan's negative WAR comes through a grand total of 127 ABs over 3 months mostly in the Corner Outfield where his bat never projected to be average.

 

[pre]Year Tm Age Pos G GS CG Inn Fld%

2013 MIL 26 LF 18 13 13 129.1 1.000

2013 MIL 26 RF 7 5 5 47.1 1.000

2013 MIL 26 CF 5 4 3 37.2 1.000[/pre]

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 6/25/2013.

 

This is another case of people looking for reasons not to do something.

 

I hardly think anyone needs to "look for a reason" not to trade the leading MLB player in WAR who is signed for the next 3+ years for a reasonable deal and whose trade value may be stunted a bit by the fact that he is somewhat of a recent emergence.

 

A .580 OPS isn't going to be average anywhere in the outfield, in center or the corners. Obviously I expect him to do better, but unless you're looking at a 5 year rebuild, there's no recent to rush Gomez out of town for a player who may or may not even project as a starter in CF.

 

I'm all about doing something, and I've said as much before. But some people want to trade Gomez for whatever haul he can land now without even consideration to whether that return is of equal value, just to get something. That's not the answer.

 

There are other answers, and I would look to shop Aoki for the right deal before Gomez.

[sheetskout]

@nickpiecoro Settle a bet for me. If the Brewers offered Carlos Gomez for Archie Bradley how long does it take for the Dbacks to say no?

 

@jordo2323 I'd guess the Dbacks wouldn't do that deal, but in that world of trades, Alex Meyer/Denard Span happened last off-season.

[brewcrewdue80]

@nickpiecoro Settle a bet for me. If the Brewers offered Carlos Gomez for Archie Bradley how long does it take for the Dbacks to say no?

 

@jordo2323 I'd guess the Dbacks wouldn't do that deal, but in that world of trades, Alex Meyer/Denard Span happened last off-season.

 

This is the kind of logic I am bringing to the idea of trading away Gomez. Span/Revere got Pitching prospects being less of the player Gomez is.

 

If you follow the logic what those two got back in trade, suggesting Archie Bradley for Gomez heads up seems like a deal that could happen.

Having Archie Bradley headline our staff with Schafer in CF. What is better? Gomez and our #5 or Bradley with Schafer@CF?

 

 

Edit adding: I guess the way to look at it is as Brewer Fans, with our SP farm raising we look at an Ace in the Making like Bradley and think that's a once in a decade find! No way should our team ever trade him away for anybody.

Meanwhile Arizona raises/or trades then raises SPs like it's a cant miss skill. Losing a guy like Bradley shouldn't hurt as much since they should feel confident they'll just create another opportunity to replace him with another Ace in a year or two.

Probably by trading Gomez in the 2015/16Offseason. And letting some other team deal with extension talks/QO decisions.

[HiAndTight]

Well, with Gomez's injury we will see just how well Logan Schafer can play everyday CF.

 

I don't know whether to think ah man the bad luck continues, or to think this is beyond good luck. This entire FO is being handed every reason to make all the right moves to rebuild and fix the mistakes of previous decisions.

If Schafer does well in CF then that clearly opens the door for the OffSeason trade Gomez should be.

All the injuries are going to lead to a top 5 draft pick. Trading away Gomez. ARam/Gallardo too should all net a reasonable return for the immediate future. Every bad thing that keeps happening is actually a good thing for the Franchise.

 

That's a good point. Maybe all of this bad luck is actually going to end up being a blessing in disguise for the Brewers. The team is likely to plummet in the standings with Braun and Gomez out for a while. The drop in record could force Attanasio and Melvin to sell. For the short term it might suck and be difficult to watch, but for the future it could pay off big time. I'd rather the Brewers suck for the next 3 years if it means returning to being a contender soon. Gomez is probably the team's best trading chip not named Segura or Braun. I think that Gomez could bring back an elite prospect plus 2 more decent prospects. Different combos of Axford/Henderson/Rodriguez could bring back a good prospect. Gallardo and Aoki could bring back good prospects. A-Ram could bring back someone. Those trades could jump start the farm sytem and reduce the waiting period until the team is a contender. Depending on who we get I would expect a good team by 2016.

 

 

 

Too all the Milwaukee Bucks fans out there....and nobody considers themselves a big bucks fan anymore(well, few do) please GOD let this be the route this franchise takes.

 

Toiling around in mediocrity is the worst place to be in sports. Even teams like the D-backs have had these extremely quick turnarounds based in large part on their ability to get young pitching to the bigs. But I honestly believe the Brewers would have spent significantly more money this year on their payroll if there was anyone out there to spend it on without going nuts like for Greinke.

 

And I don't WANT to trade Gomez. I love the guy. I'm just trying to stand back, look at this team and look at who you could get difference making prospects for and I don't see a whole lot.

 

-Braun-Yeah, he'd bring back a haul, but if you're going to trade him, trade him when he's healthy and this suspension isn't hanging over his head.

Segura and Lucroy are out of the question and Peralta just wouldn't be in demand.

 

After that, Gallardo I think could bring back some very nice pieces. Lohse I think if he can put together a few more good starts could at least be off the books(thus saving their money to sign international players or extending Segura or just spending it for the future).

Relievers unless you're talking dominant all-star closers might bring back some interesting prospects, but nothing of immediate significance.

 

But Aoki I think could bring you back a top 50 prospects to a team really looking for a well rounded leadoff hitter on a team that doesn't need 40 HR's from RF...AND Gomez could bring a ton back.

 

AND the 3 year number you use is the whole reason for me thinking now might be the time to move Gomez. He's under our control for 3.5 more years. So what...as soon as we're contenders again, Gomez is looking for his one big payday and he's gone anyway? I think a team would see the value in 3.5 years of him if they're a contender right now.

 

By the way Rickie's playing, he might have his value back up to the point where we get some teams 10th best prospect and don't even have to give them any cash in return, but again, even as my other favorite Brewer, time to turn the page there to.

 

 

Of course...at the moment we're missing the leagues most valuable player according to WAR, an MVP LF'er, a 30 HR 1st basemen(And have an OPS under .500 from that position), our cleanup hitter has been battling knee injuries and is a second half player, and it's POSSIBLE that Johnny Hellweg, Jimmy Nelson, and Wily Peralta can step up like some of those D-backs pitchers have for them and our outlook isn't so dire. I just think we all realize how unlikely that is.

 

Just look at what we got for 2.5 months of Greinke. A potential MVP caliber SS in Segura, two guys who can hit the upper 90's starting in AA and AAA ball with ERA's under 3.00. I have no problem with Gindl and Shafer in the OF, Gennett and Bianchi at 3rd base, Wooten and guys like that taking over for Ax, Henderson, K-Rod in the pen and fielding a team that's almost Astro's like for a short period of time.

 

 

Edit-Full disclosure, I was 100 pct behind rebuilding(more reloading at the time, but still) a couple years ago and was disgusted when they traded Brett Lawrie for a soft tossing, injury prone Shawn Marcum....at least until they went out and got Grienke who I thought and still think has as much talent as just about any pitcher in the game and was proven wrong in the short term...so...). Most would say I was wrong then wanting to move Hart, Weeks, and players like that at the time given the fact we were two games away from the WS. But our core's a few years older and most expensive and looking at our DL, obviously not as reliable.

 

 

Waiting to rebuild another 2-3 years could just mean we waste Braun, Segura and Lucroy's prime years and team controlled years.

[HiAndTight]

@nickpiecoro Settle a bet for me. If the Brewers offered Carlos Gomez for Archie Bradley how long does it take for the Dbacks to say no?

 

@jordo2323 I'd guess the Dbacks wouldn't do that deal, but in that world of trades, Alex Meyer/Denard Span happened last off-season.

 

This is the kind of logic I am bringing to the idea of trading away Gomez. Span/Revere got Pitching prospects being less of the player Gomez is.

 

If you follow the logic what those two got back in trade, suggesting Archie Bradley for Gomez heads up seems like a deal that could happen.

Having Archie Bradley headline our staff with Schafer in CF. What is better? Gomez and our #5 or Bradley with Schafer@CF?

 

 

Edit adding: I guess the way to look at it is as Brewer Fans, with our SP farm raising we look at an Ace in the Making like Bradley and think that's a once in a decade find! No way should our team ever trade him away for anybody.

Meanwhile Arizona raises/or trades then raises SPs like it's a cant miss skill. Losing a guy like Bradley shouldn't hurt as much since they should feel confident they'll just create another opportunity to replace him with another Ace in a year or two.

Probably by trading Gomez in the 2015/16Offseason. And letting some other team deal with extension talks/QO decisions.

 

 

 

I guess if it's Gomez for one single pitching prospect who ISN'T a "can't miss," at this point, I'd hold onto him personally. I'd prefer more margin for error and if the D-backs would say no to a cost controlled player like Gomez through 2016 for "just," Bradley, I wouldn't do it. But I believe if he keeps on playing the level he has been, I think it's possible we could get more in return than a Bradley.

[HiAndTight]

Skaggs+Bradley+Eaton for Gomez+Axford+some cash going back to ARZ. I don't know just throwing things out there. I think it's something worth considering given just how far away this team is right now.

 

I obviously say this in jest, but what planet do you come from? Because the Brewers would be lucky to get Skaggs for that return much less another top-25 pitching prospect. Archie Bradley and Tyler Skaggs alone are more valuable comodities than Carlos Gomez is by himself. There are like 10 starters in MILB that project to be a high number two or actual number one; and those are two of them.

 

 

So you mean to tell me that each of those pitching prospects have more value than the player who on pace to put up a WAR of ~8 with 3.5 cheap years left on his contract, plus a reliever who's been generally dominant this year when they have several young pitching prospects?

 

I'd ask what world you live in in which BOTH of those players ALONE are more valuable than Gomez. Especially given the organization they play for.

 

 

 

I'm going to assume you'd have asked what planet I come from if I'd suggested the trade the D-backs made in moving Trevor Bauer last year for what they got in return, a higher rated prospect in a much more talented prospect group(looking at the players rated ahead of him last year such as Machado, Profar, Trout among others).

 

 

It ALSO depends on what team you're trading him to. The D-backs right now have a staff absolutely loaded in talent. Ian Kennedy their veteran at 28, Cahill at 25, Wade Miley at 26, Corbin and Delgado at 23.

 

 

In any event, if you're going to give up Gomez, obviously your ask is going to be VERY high, and I don't think having Eaton a guy struggling a great deal right now in the minors and unproven in the big leagues would be a big obstacle to in terms of not wanting Gomez so he doesn't get blocked. Gomez could always move over, or Eaton could. Though I think Eaton and his impact on the D-backs this year is greatly exaggerated. Three OF spots helps that problem a lot and the Rays OF defense has benefited a great deal from it's OF speed.

 

Especially if this is a year that Arizona believes they could make a run in the post-season.

 

Plus Axford save for the first four games of the season has looked every bit the role of a shutdown closer this season. And again, it's a starting point.

 

 

I guess it'd depend as always on what teams are interested and what team scouts have to say. I'm just throwing out some of the D-backs top prospects. I have no idea what the actual scouts think about Bradley or Skaggs for that matter. Not to mention there's still a while to go until the trading deadline and players values can fluctuate a great deal from not until then. Axford keeps pitching like he's been pitching and he could be very attractive to a team like the D-backs in particular.

[HiAndTight]

It's not like Scafer is the only CF candidate we have, Aoki can slide over to CF, then Gamel or Gindl can hold down RF until something better comes along. We have options in the OF.

 

Furthermore Logan's negative WAR comes through a grand total of 127 ABs over 3 months mostly in the Corner Outfield where his bat never projected to be average.

 

[pre]Year Tm Age Pos G GS CG Inn Fld%

2013 MIL 26 LF 18 13 13 129.1 1.000

2013 MIL 26 RF 7 5 5 47.1 1.000

2013 MIL 26 CF 5 4 3 37.2 1.000[/pre]

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 6/25/2013.

 

This is another case of people looking for reasons not to do something.

 

I hardly think anyone needs to "look for a reason" not to trade the leading MLB player in WAR who is signed for the next 3+ years for a reasonable deal and whose trade value may be stunted a bit by the fact that he is somewhat of a recent emergence.

 

A .580 OPS isn't going to be average anywhere in the outfield, in center or the corners. Obviously I expect him to do better, but unless you're looking at a 5 year rebuild, there's no recent to rush Gomez out of town for a player who may or may not even project as a starter in CF.

 

I'm all about doing something, and I've said as much before. But some people want to trade Gomez for whatever haul he can land now without even consideration to whether that return is of equal value, just to get something. That's not the answer.

 

There are other answers, and I would look to shop Aoki for the right deal before Gomez.

 

 

 

Is this really coming from the same person who said that we needed to "wait on Segura to get a larger sample size," and "not go nuts over a couple months," when I started a thread about extending him using Schafer's OPS through fewer AB's than Segura had at the time I suggested we re-sigh him(shortly before it came out that we had in fact made an offer to re-sign him)? Now on the flip side, we'd making a decision on 127 AB's, many of which have come without regular playing time? This is of course ignoring the Brewers opinion of Schafer, which at least publicly has been nothing short of glowing.

 

And I don't know who suggested we should "trade Gomez for whatever haul he can land now without even consideration to whether that return is of equal value just to get something?"

 

Yeah, trade Aoki. He's got 1 year left after this one and is a very nice player.

 

Gomez is performing like a franchise type player and as such, I'd entertain the idea of trading him if we could get a big return for him.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you been one of the people who's been a huge critic of Melvin being RE-active as opposed to PRO-active? He's got a chance to have a 8 WAR season this year. It's also likely that he never has another season like that again. So if you can get 2-3-4 young top prospects, particularly pitching prospects in return for him now, I don't think that's suggesting we "trade Gomez without even consideration to whether that return is of equal value just to get something."

 

 

I don't know if we can get Skaggs, Bradley, Bundy, Tavaras or if GM's are going to be a little skiddish and the teams in contention simply have the need for a CF'er with Gomez' skill set

 

Hence the title "shopping him." Not trading him. Shopping him. Totally different conversation than trying to move Weeks...but perhaps I missed the part where it was suggested we should just blindly decide to trade him without worrying about what we get back in return.

[HiAndTight]

The dropoff from Gomez to Gindl/Gamel might be larger than it is to Schafer. The Brewers having candidates to fill outfield positions (Prince, Halton and Davis are too), doesn't mean any of those guys is ready or ever will be ready to be an everyday OF at the major league level. The two best OF prospects in the organization right now might be Tyrone Taylor and Mitch Haniger both of whom are at least 2-3 years from the big leagues.

 

Relative to their production, Gomez and Aoki are two of the best bargains in baseball. If you want to trade one of them why not the one who is 4 years older (Aoki) and keep the guy who is just entering his prime?

 

 

 

Simple.

 

Who would you give up more for.

 

Carlos Gomez or Aoki? 3 more years of team control. 1 more year. More power, speed, defense, better arm...great contract.

 

 

Trade Aoki if you can, but as much as I'd hate to see him go, Gomez is going to bring a lot more in return. So...that's why. We led the league in runs, HR's, and SB's last year AND we got incredible pitching for prolonged periods from starters like Fiers, Peralta, Rogers, Estrada that wasn't expected and we were still a terrible team before a fluke run latter in the year.

[sheetskout]

 

I'd ask what world you live in in which BOTH of those players ALONE are more valuable than Gomez. Especially given the organization they play for.

 

 

The same one the beat writer for the DBacks and various contacts I use at Baseball America are in. And they've all replied to some effect that if we offered up Gomez for either one the Diamondbacks would turn that down.

 

Both of those players alone ARE more valuable than Gomez.

[adambr2]

It's not like Scafer is the only CF candidate we have, Aoki can slide over to CF, then Gamel or Gindl can hold down RF until something better comes along. We have options in the OF.

 

Furthermore Logan's negative WAR comes through a grand total of 127 ABs over 3 months mostly in the Corner Outfield where his bat never projected to be average.

 

[pre]Year Tm Age Pos G GS CG Inn Fld%

2013 MIL 26 LF 18 13 13 129.1 1.000

2013 MIL 26 RF 7 5 5 47.1 1.000

2013 MIL 26 CF 5 4 3 37.2 1.000[/pre]

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 6/25/2013.

 

This is another case of people looking for reasons not to do something.

 

I hardly think anyone needs to "look for a reason" not to trade the leading MLB player in WAR who is signed for the next 3+ years for a reasonable deal and whose trade value may be stunted a bit by the fact that he is somewhat of a recent emergence.

 

A .580 OPS isn't going to be average anywhere in the outfield, in center or the corners. Obviously I expect him to do better, but unless you're looking at a 5 year rebuild, there's no recent to rush Gomez out of town for a player who may or may not even project as a starter in CF.

 

I'm all about doing something, and I've said as much before. But some people want to trade Gomez for whatever haul he can land now without even consideration to whether that return is of equal value, just to get something. That's not the answer.

 

There are other answers, and I would look to shop Aoki for the right deal before Gomez.

 

 

 

Is this really coming from the same person who said that we needed to "wait on Segura to get a larger sample size," and "not go nuts over a couple months," when I started a thread about extending him using Schafer's OPS through fewer AB's than Segura had at the time I suggested we re-sigh him(shortly before it came out that we had in fact made an offer to re-sign him)? Now on the flip side, we'd making a decision on 127 AB's, many of which have come without regular playing time? This is of course ignoring the Brewers opinion of Schafer, which at least publicly has been nothing short of glowing.

 

And I don't know who suggested we should "trade Gomez for whatever haul he can land now without even consideration to whether that return is of equal value just to get something?"

 

Yeah, trade Aoki. He's got 1 year left after this one and is a very nice player.

 

Gomez is performing like a franchise type player and as such, I'd entertain the idea of trading him if we could get a big return for him.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you been one of the people who's been a huge critic of Melvin being RE-active as opposed to PRO-active? He's got a chance to have a 8 WAR season this year. It's also likely that he never has another season like that again. So if you can get 2-3-4 young top prospects, particularly pitching prospects in return for him now, I don't think that's suggesting we "trade Gomez without even consideration to whether that return is of equal value just to get something."

 

 

I don't know if we can get Skaggs, Bradley, Bundy, Tavaras or if GM's are going to be a little skiddish and the teams in contention simply have the need for a CF'er with Gomez' skill set

 

Hence the title "shopping him." Not trading him. Shopping him. Totally different conversation than trying to move Weeks...but perhaps I missed the part where it was suggested we should just blindly decide to trade him without worrying about what we get back in return.

 

Yes I am, but I wouldn't be this proactive mostly because I don't think the return is going to be as good as you are anticipating. I think it's going to take a larger sample size of success for Gomez for GM's to buy in. I think he's a better trade value after 2014 or at the AS break next year.

[brewcrewdue80]

Mind blown time.

Currently Gomez is a net +36runs in value over Average CF in 72 games. That's .5runs/game. Do the math that's 2.5runs better every 5games which is what Bradley slates in as appearing. You cannot tell me he's 2.5runs better over the average pitcher every start. Now, Gomez can't possibly keep his pace right? But .3 runs certainly seems reasonable or 1.5runs every Bradley start.

Going further with logic, Bradley being the projected Ace to be meabs he should sit in the #1 or 2 slot in a rotation. So now hes facing pitchers that should themselves be greater value than average. So not only does Bradley have to be better than avg. by 1.5runs to equal Gomez in value but he needs to be even greater in value to his team to net result wins. 2.7era vs 3.1 era isn't equal to Gomez so long as they have pitchers that compete to equal value in their slot in rotation. Corbin competes with other #1s Skaggs should compete with other #2s. Delgado should compete with other #3s now Bradley if slotted #4 will clearly dominate #4s but, its kind of a waste if an average level pitcher like Cahill can compete with other #4s.

It becomes a Phillies type situation where the pitching does no godd when your hitters can't provide enough run support.

It's in this reasoning Arizona should definitely not only find Gomez equal in value to Bradley but have to pay more than just Bradley to get Gomez.

[JohnBriggs12]

The dropoff from Gomez to Gindl/Gamel might be larger than it is to Schafer. The Brewers having candidates to fill outfield positions (Prince, Halton and Davis are too), doesn't mean any of those guys is ready or ever will be ready to be an everyday OF at the major league level. The two best OF prospects in the organization right now might be Tyrone Taylor and Mitch Haniger both of whom are at least 2-3 years from the big leagues.

 

Relative to their production, Gomez and Aoki are two of the best bargains in baseball. If you want to trade one of them why not the one who is 4 years older (Aoki) and keep the guy who is just entering his prime?

 

 

 

Simple.

 

Who would you give up more for.

 

Carlos Gomez or Aoki? 3 more years of team control. 1 more year. More power, speed, defense, better arm...great contract.

 

 

Trade Aoki if you can, but as much as I'd hate to see him go, Gomez is going to bring a lot more in return. So...that's why. We led the league in runs, HR's, and SB's last year AND we got incredible pitching for prolonged periods from starters like Fiers, Peralta, Rogers, Estrada that wasn't expected and we were still a terrible team before a fluke run latter in the year.

 

They were an average (not terrible) team last year because the bullpen wasn't just bad, it was historically bad. How quickly that's forgotten. This year's team is bad because of one historically bad month in which their former All Star 2nd baseman drove in 1 run the entire month and they got zero production from first base. The pitching slumped a bit in May but their current team ERA of 4.23 is actually not much below the norm over the past 30 years or so. They've gone from leading the NL in runs scored in 2012 to 8th currently. Taking Gomez out of the mix would put them near the bottom.

[TheCrew07]

They've gone from leading the NL in runs scored in 2012 to 8th currently. Taking Gomez out of the mix would put them near the bottom.

 

That's a pretty simplistic view which is ignoring everything else that's been going on with the offense. What evidence do you have that the Brewers would be in the bottom 3rd offensively trading one guy? I could see that if they traded Ramirez and Gomez then lost Braun to a suspension, but I believe you're vastly overstating your case.

[chickinbrickin]

You never know what value a team in the hunt will put on a player. Look what the Brewers got for few month Greinkie rental last season. While I think Skaggs and Bradley is very unlikely, I don't think anyone can say either one is way more valuable than Gomez. Reason being, no one knows what value a team in the hunt who thinks they must win now will put on a player like Gomez.

 

Numbers, war, contract all go out the window when it comes to these types of playoff run trades.

[sheetskout]

@SteveGilbertMLB If the Brewers offered Carlos Gomez for Archie Bradley how open to it would the DBacks be in your opinion?

 

@jordo2323 I would say they would not be interested in that.

[brewcrewdue80]

Well, there you have it. I didn't do my homework enough to know that they have a 1st rd pick from 2009 playing CF in what amounts to his first full season. Looks like a good defender too so the gain in Gomez would only be offensively though Pollock is around a .300minors BA so if he sticks with that line he's at least a .750OPS+ batter and that's positive as well.

 

Will have to set our sights elsewhere in what Ace is worth Gomez plus.

 

It goes with another thread, Arizona has zero need to trade like they are all-in this year. Quite frankly it will be a lot of fun watching the DBacks win the West over and over again while the Dodgers spend 200+mil in payroll trying to do so.

So they have Parra,Pollock,Eaton for OF. Goldscmidt at 1b, Hill at 2b. Gregorious at SS, Prado/Davidson for 3b. Montero at C. And Corbin,Skaggs,Bradley,Delgado Quartet for Starters Zeke Spruill to be the 5th then.

Talk about an Organization with their act together.

But hey, they're run by a Crazy Owner/GM right? Trading Upton? Trading Kelly Johnson for Hill? All those trades they've likely come out ahead every time the past decade it seems.

[PrinceFielderx1]

I've done some thinking about trading Gomez, and I will without question pass. We have one of the best hitters in the game in Braun in LF, we have an above average CF in Gomez in one of the most premium positions in the game, we have a potential superstar at SS in Segura, which is the most premium position on the field, and we have a decent to above average Catcher in Lucroy. I say trade everybody else except those players and try like heck to get the pitching you need even if you have to wait 2-3 years to develop it. I'm in total favor of trading Gallardo. Eat 20-30 million in a season if you have too by trading Ramirez/Lohse.

[danzig6767]

It's not like Scafer is the only CF candidate we have, Aoki can slide over to CF, then Gamel or Gindl can hold down RF until something better comes along. We have options in the OF.

 

Furthermore Logan's negative WAR comes through a grand total of 127 ABs over 3 months mostly in the Corner Outfield where his bat never projected to be average.

 

[pre]Year Tm Age Pos G GS CG Inn Fld%

2013 MIL 26 LF 18 13 13 129.1 1.000

2013 MIL 26 RF 7 5 5 47.1 1.000

2013 MIL 26 CF 5 4 3 37.2 1.000[/pre]

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 6/25/2013.

 

This is another case of people looking for reasons not to do something.

 

I'm not dead set against trading Gomez. As with any potential trade, the devil is in the details.

 

That said, Aoki can't play CF, he'd be a massive liability out there. Hell, even in RF he has to play practically on the warning track because he's so terrible going back on balls.

[brewcrewdue80]

Don't get me wrong, in understanding how great Gomez is and means to our team. The problem is as a core piece it's hard to fathom this team as constructed to compete in the next 2 years. And at that point then we are in Prince Fielder territory in that maybe we are competitive in 2016 and Gomez is a big part to a run at the division title. The problem is at that point we are keeping Gomez, then making a QO to him for a draft selection in the 30 range.

 

Whereas, you trade him now through to 2015 Offseason and you net a return of players that make competing in 2016 and beyond seem realistic. I'm set it would be a 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 type trade for Gomez and that certainly is better than 1 30th draft pick that then takes 3-5 years to make the team or in 2020. You trade Gomez now, get hopefully two very impactful players for 2016 and beyond that pair up then with the Braun/Segura/Lucroy/ core and take the Peralta/Hellweg/Jungmann/Williams? SP core with the Taylor/Haniger duo. It's just something that to me you can time better with this deal to have the team look like the Diamondbacks do today.

 

Or you keep Gomez hope for a successful 2016 take the pick and have the core be 2 players less for 2016 and beyond. and the beyond wouldn't include Braun/Lucroy anymore at that point.

[nate82]

I think you shop Gomez now but I don't believe you are going to find the deal that you are going to want to make right now. I would wait until the off season to get real serious in trading Gomez this is when Boston will be looking at either paying Ellsbury a ridiculous contract or trading for someone like Gomez who has a fairly decent contract. You would also get more for Gomez in the off season as you would have more teams looking to acquire him the Rangers, Red Sox, Mets, Reds, and the Mariners would all be possible candidates in a trade for Gomez. You could also add in the Yankees but they do not have the prospects that the Reds, Red Sox, or the Mariners could offer. You could even make a case for the Rangers being on the outside looking in on a trade for Gomez.