Hand to start Saturday?

[1992casey]

Would you have made that same comment had he gone 1 1/3 and given up 6 runs?

 

Except for "He did that and more," I bet he would have.

 

Actually expecting 4 2/3 scoreless innings would have been unrealistic, of course. But expecting him to give up 6 runs in 1 2/3 innings would have been equally unrealistic.

[brewcrewdue80]

As far as I know the win goes to the Pitcher with the lead after the 15th out in the game. Through 5ip. Hand was 1out away from earning that distinction. So whoever took over and got that out should have been the winner.

 

It's not the most effective reliever gets the win. Heck, Closers all the time blow their save opportunity only for the team to bail them out score runs in the bottom of the 9th/top of 10th and get them the win.

 

As for Hand, I expected 3ip+ meaning pitching in to the 4th 2-4ER. Honestly, being realistic. But then again what is this? the 3rd shutout by our all RP games?

[1992casey]

The official scorer determines the winning pitcher based on who was most effective. See MLB Rule 10.17. I added the bold.

 

If the pitcher whose team assumes a lead while such pitcher is in the game, or during the inning on offense in which such pitcher is removed from the game, and does not relinquish such lead, is a starting pitcher who has not completed

(1) five innings of a game that lasts six or more innings on defense, or

(2) four innings of a game that lasts five innings on defense,

then the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the relief pitcher, if there is only one relief pitcher, or the relief pitcher who, in the official scorer’s judgment was the most effective, if there is more than one relief pitcher.

 

Rule 10.17(b) Comment: It is the intent of Rule 10.17(b) that a relief pitcher pitch at least one complete inning or pitch when a crucial out is made, within the context of the game (including the score), in order to be credited as the winning pitcher. If the first relief pitcher pitches effectively, the official scorer should not presumptively credit that pitcher with the win, because the rule requires that the win be credited to the pitcher who was the most effective, and a subsequent relief pitcher may have been most effective. The official scorer, in determining which relief pitcher was the most effective, should consider the number of runs, earned runs and base runners given up by each relief pitcher and the context of the game at the time of each relief pitcher’s appearance. If two or more relief pitchers were similarly effective, the official scorer should give the presumption to the earlier pitcher as the winning pitcher.

[Thurston Fluff]

It's easy to make a comment like that after the fact.

 

What does that have to do with my comments? We were discussing why PrinceFielderx1 didn't have much hope. I assumed since he made the comments after Hand just got done pitching so well he was talking about the future not that game. I pointed to the results to show there was no reason not to be at least hopeful Hand could handle the majors. One would think commenting on hope would be more useful after the results were in.

 

I don't think anyone, including the coaching staff expected 4 2/3 innings from him today.

 

That is probably why it is better to base your hopes off results not predictions.

I think what he meant was that we were starting a RP that hasn't pitched more than one inning since the start of June. How could that provide anyone with hope.

I could see that argument if it was because the starters were so bad they resorted to long men in an effort to find someone who could help. That was not why Hand started today. He started because they have a couple starters about to come off the DL and they didn't want to bring up a minor leaguer for one start. The only thing that changed after the start was the reliever far exceeded what we could have hoped for. Shouldn't that boost the hope he has a future?

 

Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

Which is why results are far more accurate. It seems odd to ignore what really happened in favor of what you predicted should happen.

Would you have made that same comment had he gone 1 1/3 and given up 6 runs?

 

No I wouldn't have because Hand wouldn't have given me the same reason to hope. It doesn't mean I am ready to anoint him the savior or anything but each good outing leads to a little more hope not less. What gives you hope in a player? I assume you don't just decide if he is good or not then ignore the results. Don't you base it on how the player actually performs?

[brewcrewdue80]

The official scorer determines the winning pitcher based on who was most effective. See MLB Rule 10.17. I added the bold.

 

If the pitcher whose team assumes a lead while such pitcher is in the game, or during the inning on offense in which such pitcher is removed from the game, and does not relinquish such lead, is a starting pitcher who has not completed

(1) five innings of a game that lasts six or more innings on defense, or

(2) four innings of a game that lasts five innings on defense,

then the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the relief pitcher, if there is only one relief pitcher, or the relief pitcher who, in the official scorer’s judgment was the most effective, if there is more than one relief pitcher.

 

Rule 10.17(b) Comment: It is the intent of Rule 10.17(b) that a relief pitcher pitch at least one complete inning or pitch when a crucial out is made, within the context of the game (including the score), in order to be credited as the winning pitcher. If the first relief pitcher pitches effectively, the official scorer should not presumptively credit that pitcher with the win, because the rule requires that the win be credited to the pitcher who was the most effective, and a subsequent relief pitcher may have been most effective. The official scorer, in determining which relief pitcher was the most effective, should consider the number of runs, earned runs and base runners given up by each relief pitcher and the context of the game at the time of each relief pitcher’s appearance. If two or more relief pitchers were similarly effective, the official scorer should give the presumption to the earlier pitcher as the winning pitcher.

 

Wow, interesting. I never knew that. But has there ever been an instance the RP who completed the 5th inning with the team ahead not go on to get credit for the win when a change of RP in the 6th inning and that RP getting credit for the win?

Of course the lead never relinquinshed obviously.

[1992casey]

I think we can be certain that it's happened. This kind of situation isn't that unusual.

 

If the first reliever gets the team out of a jam, he's probably positioned pretty well for the win unless you have a pretty wild game. If the starter leaves due to injury and there's no jam, things would be pretty wide open.

[bani1717]

I honestly don't see the point of the 5-inning minimum to get a win. You could have someone pitch 1/3 of an inning and get a win because the offense explodes the next half inning. You could have a reliever blow a save and get the win. But you can't give a win to a guy like Hand who makes a spot start and pitches 4 2/3 of shutout ball?

[Fear The Chorizo]

it will never happen because pitchers use these stats in contract negotiations, but I think MLB should stop tracking wins, losses, saves, holds, etc in pitching statistics. You don't see anything like that from an offensive statistical standpoint. So much goes into winning/losing a baseball game that's outside a pitcher's control, why pin W-L record to their statline? Maybe take a different approach and track a team's W-L record in games started by certain pitchers.