Gallardo/Aoki to Texas?

[reillymcshane]

Olt has always struck out at a high rate. It has always worried some scouts. But he has struggled this year. 51 strikeouts in 140 ABs is struggling. I know there are extenuating circumstances, but that's still struggling.

 

However, the team needs to look at the big picture and remember how good Olt was in 2010-12. If they feel the eye injury is behind him, he's a great 'low buy' guy - as some have pointed out.

 

A guy like Olt is all about trusting your scouts. They have to look at his swing and approach and make up and decide if he's a future big league player.

[RockCoCougars]

I don't have a clue what the deal with Perez is. I can only guess that it was due to his age and the fact that he's left-handed. I'm so glad that the Rangers were tight with their prospects last summer. The Brewers were extremely fortunate to get Segura as a plan B. As for trading them Gallardo, I just don't see a match. The only way that I would do it would be if Profar was coming back, and I don't see that. I would probably do Lohse for Grimm or Perez if both continue to flame out at the MLB level, if for no other reason than to shed Lohse's contract from the books.

[paul253]

I would trade Gallardo for Olt, Perez and Grimm. The Brewers need to take chances on high ceiling players and Perez and Olt both fit that mold. We have no long term solution at third base and really no long term solution at first either (unless you count Morris) and Olt could fit either position. With the $24 million you save on Yo's contract you could probably sign a free agent pitcher like Tim Hudson to a 2 year deal. Obtaining Olt would also make Ramirez expendable and you could trade him for a pitching prospect like Zach Lee.

[brewcrewdue80]

Kinda lost in this discussion is the fact that Melvin in an interview basically ripped on Texas and Olt. One would think a bridge is burned for a trade to happen between the two teams for a year or two.

 

But this is Transaction rumors/proposals so just running with the idea.

 

Remember the trade offer last season for Grienke was Buckel,Grimm, and a third I cannot remember I guess Leury Garcia. Give Melvin credit sticking to his demands of Perez and/or Olt

 

Link to a story about the deadline:

http://www.bbtia.com/home/2012/7/28/the-zack-greinke-trade-the-rangers-and-what-happens-now.html

 

I just think a trade with Texas wont be happening this year after Melvin's comments and the breakdown in getting a deal done last season.

[HiAndTight]

Profar plus another prospect for two years of Yo & a so-so outfield bat? That's just not a very realistic price tag imo.

 

 

A leadoff hitter who hits .300/.375-ish, has great speed and plays very good defense in the OF is not a "so-so," bat. Aoki is one of those players IMO that you can't just look at his WAR to determine his value as a player. He's a fantastic leadoff hitter and defensive RF'er. Not the prototypical arm for a RF're, but it's good and VERY accurate and Aoki does a LOT of things that don't show up in the box score.

 

However Gallardo IMO is a player that we should look to trade soon. I believe his performance is going to decrease over the next couple of years, but right now he's pitching VERY well.

 

 

 

Still, for Profar? It's not going to happen. It's like people expect every 19-20 year old top prospect to come up, switch positions and perform like Machado, Trout or Harper. The Rangers know what they have in Profar and I think they have a pretty good idea of what it takes to win a WS and I doubt they're going to trade a guy who's legitimately a #3-ish SP'er and one of the best leadoff hitters, but one who they would control for just one more season for the top prospect in baseball.

 

 

Profar has shown he can do absolutely everything in baseball. He projects to be a GG caliber defender, a guy who draws a lot of walks and hits for a high OBP, and one who could develop into a 15-20 HR a year player unless they're getting back another ace to pair with Yu.

 

Perhaps a deal with Tampa Bay for a guy like Price would be more realistic.

 

I remember suggesting that the Brewers deal Greinke for Profar and we throw in K-Rod or Axford last year if the Rangers would be desperate enough to take that deal and there were about 10 posters who blasted me and thought that we would have been giving up way too much when in fact that would have been a steal(though I'm plenty happy with Hellwegg+Pena and Segura instead, getting a potential 10 year AS caliber SS, plus two potential, POTENTIAL frontline pitchers).

 

 

It seems as though people are still underestimating Profar.

 

And actually, that 15-20 HR projection for him might even be low. He could develop into a 30 HR a year type guy on top of everything else.

19 years old in 126 games played he;

14 HR's

roughly a 12 pct BB rate and a 14 pct K rate, .280/.370/.450-ish line as a 19 year old in AA with a projectable body at 6'1 165 and an absolute cannon at short and great range.

 

If you wanted to create a perfect SS, Profar would be pretty close. He should fill out and add 20 pounds(added power) and just continue to mature. Compare that to Segura who was in rookie ball for the most part at age 19 and I think what he's done thus far is pretty impressive and the Rangers are wise to keep him on the proverbial, "no trade," list unless they can get a David Price type pitcher at the very least, and Gallardo and Aoki doesn't equal David Price as much as I like the two.

[HiAndTight]

I would trade Gallardo for Olt, Perez and Grimm. The Brewers need to take chances on high ceiling players and Perez and Olt both fit that mold. We have no long term solution at third base and really no long term solution at first either (unless you count Morris) and Olt could fit either position. With the $24 million you save on Yo's contract you could probably sign a free agent pitcher like Tim Hudson to a 2 year deal. Obtaining Olt would also make Ramirez expendable and you could trade him for a pitching prospect like Zach Lee.

 

 

I like the idea of getting Perez and Grimm into the Brewers system simply because I think the more Peralta, Hellweg, Pena, Jungman, Nelson type pitchers you have, guys with #1/#2 upsides, the better chance you have of getting a couple to actually develop. Peralta despite his struggles has actually been encouraging because his change has been looking better and his stuff is just so nasty.

 

But if we're going to trade Gallardo, I'd prefer getting guys who haven't struggled at AAA regardless of their upside. Grimm is at best a #2 with his fastball being a potential plus pitch hitting 94-95 and another potential plus change. Perez clearly has great upside, but again, too many question marks.

 

Olt has been terrible this year....there is very little certainty with pitching prospects, but I'd like a little more probability than these guys provide.

[RockCoCougars]

I remember suggesting that the Brewers deal Greinke for Profar and we throw in K-Rod or Axford last year if the Rangers would be desperate enough to take that deal and there were about 10 posters who blasted me and thought that we would have been giving up way too much when in fact that would have been a steal

 

I was definitely one of the 'blasters' because the proposal was started in May, when the Brewers still had some hope of getting back into contention. At the time Greinke was dealt, I would have done the deal. I wouldn't mark that deal down as a steal at this point anyway, Profar hasn't really done anything in the majors yet. I wouldn't trade Segura for Profar at this point anyway, so I'm happy the way things turned out.

 

As for Texas not dealing with the Brewers because of Melvin's comments... if that's the case, they can go pound sand. To me, it looks like they severely overrated a bunch of their prospects. It was their prerogative to go cheap with Dempster last year, and it looks like it cost them big time. They had better hope that these young guys can step into their aging lineup and fill some holes- and that their $100 million shortstop stops playing like Royce Clayton (Brewers vintage) or their window may be closed.

[TheCrew07]

It was their prerogative to go cheap with Dempster last year...

 

I'm not sure "cheap" is fair or proper, how did the Greinke trade workout for the Angels? It's not like the prospect they gave to the Cubs for Dempster was a nobody, Christian Villanueva was the #100 prospect in BA's preseason 2013 top 100.

 

2 months of Greinke wasn't worth Olt, and certainly wasn't worth Segura. Daniels was absolutely correct in refusing to part with players of that caliber for a rental. You may not like the way he values players but I think his evaluation was spot on.

 

Didn't you also compare Profar to Royce Clayton last year? You must really have despised him since he's your default negative comparison for every SS in the Rangers organization.

 

TX is 42-32 this season and in 1st place in the AL west by percentage points but even if Andrus doesn't ever ascend and is a low .700ish player, they have still have Profar waiting and they are still winning with Andrus having the worst 3 months of his career. I highly doubt a 24 year old with Andrus' talent is already on the downside of his career. TX has already been to 2 more WS in the last 5 years than the Brewers have, and has Olt, Profar, Perez, and Martin (who's already up). That's a corner IF prospect, a middle IF prospect, a potential impact LHP, and a CF prospect... not only has their window been open wider, it's not closing anytime soon.

[RockCoCougars]

Didn't you also compare Profar to Royce Clayton last year? You must really have despised him since he's your default negative comparison for every SS in the Rangers organization.

 

I'm thinking that the comparison I made was between Jose Offerman and Profar, but you may be right. I didn't despise Clayton at all. I actually thought that he was a good veteran presence with the Brewers and had a solid glove. That said, by the time he got here, he wasn't much of a hitter.

 

The bottom line is that I think a solid argument can be made that the Rangers reluctance to part with any prospects to add pieces last July may have hurt them. Maybe all of these guys will pan out and turn into all-stars, but the odds are against it.

[TooLiveBrew]

Maybe all of these guys will pan out and turn into all-stars, but the odds are against it.

I think it would be interesting to study win now/rental trades & see what the odds are that they pan out over the course of two-three months they usually cover.

[RockCoCougars]

Maybe all of these guys will pan out and turn into all-stars, but the odds are against it.

I think it would be interesting to study win now/rental trades & see what the odds are that they pan out over the course of two-three months they usually cover.

 

I'd think that it's probably a 50/50 deal. There have been some horrible trades by the win now teams (off hand Langston to the Expos, Colon to the Expos, Randy Johnson to the Astros, the Bagwell deal, etc.), but I'd guess that just as many times the prospects have done absolutely nothing while the vets helped. It seems more often than not, its a so-so mixed bag for both teams.

 

The thing that gets me about the Rangers last year, is that they were a team that had come so close, with so many prospects to choose from, and they don't make a deal. Call me shortsighted, but I'd have been incredibly frustrated if I was a Rangers fan.

[TooLiveBrew]

Maybe all of these guys will pan out and turn into all-stars, but the odds are against it.

I think it would be interesting to study win now/rental trades & see what the odds are that they pan out over the course of two-three months they usually cover.

 

I'd think that it's probably a 50/50 deal. There have been some horrible trades by the win now teams (off hand Langston to the Expos, Colon to the Expos, Randy Johnson to the Astros, the Bagwell deal, etc.), but I'd guess that just as many times the prospects have done absolutely nothing while the vets helped. It seems more often than not, its a so-so mixed bag for both teams.

 

The thing that gets me about the Rangers last year, is that they were a team that had come so close, with so many prospects to choose from, and they don't make a deal. Call me shortsighted, but I'd have been incredibly frustrated if I was a Rangers fan.

Interesting. If it is indeed 50/50 odds for both options, I guess I like the long-term potential value of a prospect compared to the short term potential value for the established MLB player. I can understand placing more value on the short term, though.

[Bnowell4evr]

Kinda lost in this discussion is the fact that Melvin in an interview basically ripped on Texas and Olt. One would think a bridge is burned for a trade to happen between the two teams for a year or two.

 

But this is Transaction rumors/proposals so just running with the idea.

 

Remember the trade offer last season for Grienke was Buckel,Grimm, and a third I cannot remember I guess Leury Garcia. Give Melvin credit sticking to his demands of Perez and/or Olt

 

Link to a story about the deadline:

http://www.bbtia.com/home/2012/7/28/the-zack-greinke-trade-the-rangers-and-what-happens-now.html

 

I just think a trade with Texas wont be happening this year after Melvin's comments and the breakdown in getting a deal done last season.

 

Have you seen the returns we've gotten on that Greinke trade? We made the right choice and if the Rangers are [sore about it, too bad.]

[brewcrewdue80]

Yes, I know what return we got. I just posted what the Rangers offer was for Grienke and the fact that Melvin called for Olt(Maybe leading up to an ARam deal with Dodgers speculation) plus Perez. Rangers didn't bite and nor did Melvin.

 

But then Melvin voiced his opinion the credit due to his scouts for finding Segura and dissed the trade that didn't happen with the Rangers stating there's (Mike Olt) a guy batting (something like .150 at the time) whom a team overvalued and didn't want to part with. It was undercutting and if I were the Rangers GM, I'd laugh off any and all calls by Melvin. I would feel confident as the Rangers GM that Melvin's tenure was coming to an end this year or next so why bother dealing with the guy?

Anyway when it comes to Texas I don't think they need Gallardo. Just let Grimm/Perez pitch. They have Darvish and a very bright future with their team. They shouldn't rush to take a questionable #2 SP when they have 2 questionable #2s already on their team to throw out in the mix.

 

(I realize this goes against my Gallardo/Aoki for Profar deal recommendation. That was more in line with a deal that I think could happen in certain circumstance...Cruz being suspended...) But, I knew my feelings with Melvin's comments making a deal with Texas seem unrealistic.