Time to resurrect the Power 50 (with our readers' Power 25)

[fondybrewfan]

I wonder if Denson should be in the Top 25 now that he has signed? He probably instantly has the best power potential in the system.

[82brewcrew11]

I don't know if I could put Denson in the top 25 yet but I would think he would fit easily into the top 50.

[monkeyman343434]

I really don't care about Hellweg's K rate at this point. It is his BB rate that really concerns me. He's walking more than 1 guy every 2 innings. You can't succeed in the majors walking that many guys, especially with a low K rate.

[TooLiveBrew]

1. Jimmy Nelson

2. Tyrone Taylor

3. Orlando Arcia

4. Johnny Hellweg

5. Ariel Pena

6. Hunter Morris

7. Devin Williams

8. Victor Roache

9. Taylor Jungmann

10. Mitch Haniger

11. Clint Coulter

11. Tyler Thornburg

12. Jed Bradley

13. Jorge Lopez

14. Michael Reed

15. Brooks Hall

16. Drew Gagnon

17. Jose Pena

18. David Denson

19. Daniel Keller

20. Ruben Ozuna

21. Tucker Neuhaus

22. Cameron Garfield

23. David Goforth

24. Chris McFarland

25. Gian Rizzo

 

 

Disclaimer: the number of guys I've actually seen play (even on video) in our system is very limited

 

Top 5 Contact Potential

Taylor

Gennett

Arcia

Haniger

Reed

 

Top 5 Power Potential

Denson

Roache

Coulter

Morris

Taylor

 

 

I made these quick top-5's to help me attempt to rank the hitters. Figured I might as well post them... but I didn't attempt any for the pitchers.

 

Gian Rizzo at #25 is sort of the equivalent of tossing a penny in a fountain & making a wish. No idea what the young man actually even looks like.

 

 

EDIT: I should note that I forgot about Burgos in terms of still being eligible as a prospect. I guess I think of him more in the stage where Peralta is, sort of a former prospect & current young player forging his way in MLB.

[splitterpfj]

TwoLive, I'd still rank Roache's power ahead of Denson's myself, Roache hit 'em in college, Denson hasn't played above high school. I'd put Morris ahead of Coulter too, basically for the same reason, Coulter is trying to find his way in the low end, Morris is trying to prove he's ready for the highest level.

[TooLiveBrew]

TwoLive, I'd still rank Roache's power ahead of Denson's myself, Roache hit 'em in college, Denson hasn't played above high school. I'd put Morris ahead of Coulter too, basically for the same reason, Coulter is trying to find his way in the low end, Morris is trying to prove he's ready for the highest level.

I hear you. I tried to incorporate possibly untapped physical tools. Denson is basically 6'4"/250 & not yet 18, and Coulter already looks physically (in person) like a big leaguer -- listed at 6'3"/210 & turns 20 at the end of July... wouldn't be surprised to see him open next season around 220-225 lbs. If these guys weren't physical beasts, I wouldn't have such high hopes for what kind of power they can develop.

 

I realize I'm very high on both of those younger guys, & that's based completely on an arbitrary guess by me on potential. But I feel there's an argument in my defense.

 

Denson's BF.net-famous 515' (non-wood bat) shot in a showcase event at Marlins Park came off of such an easy-looking swing. If that had been a max-effort swing, I wouldn't be so excited about his ceiling -- I'd still be excited, though.

 

Coulter struggled to consistently make contact with the T-Rats, but when he was squaring up the ball he flashed a compact & powerful stroke. It struck me as particularly impressive from such a large, young hitter (working to learn the catcher position, no less). A swing closer to Paul Molitor's than Rob Deer's. Imo the power displays will come from Coulter. EDIT: I agree 100% with you, splitter, on Clint. Move him to 3B/away from catcher to let him concentrate on his hitting.

 

I've also seen Roache in person a few times, and will not deny that when he zones in on a pitch, it explodes off his bat & definitely has "that sound." I've seen him hit some line-drive laser beam home runs that evoke images of trademark Rickie Weeks shots. I am just very high on the power ceilings for Denson & Coulter.

 

Also, with the physical tools & contact ability he's already shown, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Tyrone Taylor wound up with the best actual power production of anyone off my short list once it's all said & done. His frame is reminiscent of a young Ryan Braun, and as he continues to get stronger, more & more 2Bs will turn into HRs. With how frequently he could be expected to continue to put the barrel on the ball, you could be talking about a big-time impact bat in the future.

[LouisEly]

I just edited my list (feel free to do that up through 6/25), and made a comment that I think a lot of people, myself included, undervalue Khris Davis. While he has gotten off to a slow start this year, his OBP is still >.100 higher than his BA. I was shocked to see that he had a .451 OBP in 2012 (316 PAs) and a career OBP of .393; he also has a good BB:K ratio and even though he is struggling this year still has a 27:39 BB:K ratio.

[Herm]

1 Hellweg

2 Nelson

3 Pena, A

4 Morris

5 Taylor

6 Arcia

7 Rizzo

8 Jungman

9 Thornburg

10 Gennett

11 Haniger

12 Burgos

13 Roache

14 Coulter

15 Gindl

16 Davis, Ke

17 Bradley

18 Davis, Kh

19 Lopez

20 Williams

21 Neuhaus

22 Goforth

23 Hall

24 Wagner

25 Pena, J

 

A bit more heavily weighed for production farther up the chain, but with room for an occasional burst of optimism for lower level guys with star potential (Arcia, Rizzo).

 

Thought it would be relatively thin getting to 25 but was suprised with mix of talent and in some cases enigmas/health issues left off -- Scarptetta, Bucci, Arnett, Heckathorn, Reed, Olmsted, Magnifico, Jesus Saves, Gagnon, Garfield, and even recent return of D'Vo. Also intrigued by Denson like several on bf.net based on the one swing and massive power.

 

All in all system is getting stronger again, and hopefully much more so by midnight on 7/31 with a few of the vets going away for another infusion of talent.

[LouisEly]

Last call...

 

... if you don't want to make your list public you can PM it to me.

[sfl2hnq17]

Jimmy Nelson

Tyrone Taylor

Johnny Hellweg

Orlando Arcia

Clint Coulter

Victor Roache

Mitch Haniger

Ariel Pena

Taylor Jungmann

Tyler Thornburg

Hunter Morris

Scooter Gennett

Devin Williams

Hiram Burgos

Damien Magnifico

Jed Bradley

Drew Gagnon

Jorge Lopez

Tyler Wagner

Michael Reed

Chris McFarland

David Goforth

Nick Ramirez

Gian Rizzo

Yadiel Rivera

[DKM4Boston]

1. Johnny Hellweg

2. Jimmy Nelson

3. Tyrone Taylor

4. Orlando Arcia

5. Taylor Jungmann

6. Ariel Pena

7. Victor Roache

8. Hunter Morris

9. Clint Coulter

10. Kentrail Davis

11. Hiram Burgos

12. Mitch Haniger

13. Scooter Gennett

14. Tyler Thornburg

15. Devin Williams

16. Jed Bradley

17. Khris Davis

18. Caleb Gindl

19. Damien Magnifico

20. Jorge Lopez

21. Tucker Neuhaus

22. Drew Gagnon

23. Michael Reed

24. Josh Prince

25. Tyler Wagner

[BallFour]

Like others have said the system is starting to get some momentum in the lower levels hitting wise. If Arcia, Coulter, and Roache put it together in the second half I think it would put a lot of our minds at ease with a an upward trend going into next year. Also agree that the sooner Coulter isn't behind the dish the better. Will he project to OF, 3B, or 1B? Curious to where you guys think he might play in the future.

[TooLiveBrew]

Honestly, I've tried to figure that out. Not sure I know. My hope would be 3B, but I'd put my money on a corner OF spot.

[LouisEly]

Results are in! Thanks to everyone who contributed. Scoring was 25 points for #1 ranking, 24 for #2, etc., to 1 point for #25. Number in parenthesis is total number of points:

 

#1) Jimmy Nelson (416 points, 12 first place votes)

#2) Johnny Hellweg (379, 2 first place votes)

#3) Tyrone Taylor (365, 2 first place votes)

#4) Orlando Arcia (357, 1 first place vote)

#5) Hunter Morris (320)

#6) (tie) Mitch Haniger (308)

#6) (tie) Ariel Pena (308)

#8) Taylor Jungmann (299)

#9) Tyler Thornburg (288)

#10) Victor Roache (287)

#11) Devin Williams (265)

#12) Clint Coulter (240, lowest ranked player on every ballot)

#13) Scooter Gennett (224, highest ranked player not on all ballots - not on two)

#14) Jed Bradley (161, not on one ballot)

#15) Tucker Neuhaus (159, not on one ballot)

#16) Jorge Lopez (140, not on two ballots)

#17) Drew Gagnon (138, lowest ranked player on all but one ballot)

#18) Hiram Burgos (136)

#19) Michael Reed (98, lowest ranked player on all but two ballots)

#20) Khris Davis (94)

#21) Caleb Gindl (78)

#22) Kentrail Davis (70)

#23) Tyler Wagner (64)

#24) Damien Magnifico (58)

#25) (tie) Jose Pena (37)

#25) (tie) Chris McFarland (37)

 

Next four are Hall (33), Garfield (30), Goforth (26), and Rizzo (21, only on two ballots).

 

Biggest surprise for me was how many ballots Khris Davis was left off of (five). His AA career line is .298/.384/.488 and AAA line is .263/.367/.458; OBP has consistently been .100 higher than his BA. Not necessarily a top 10 guy, but given what he has done in the upper levels I expected him to be somewhere on most if not all lists.

[sfl2hnq17]

I think they should stick Coulter in RF. I know we already have a surplus of OFs in Helena and Wisconsin, but that's what the Royals did with Wil Myers and he absolutely took off. Just my two cents.

 

P.S. I'm not saying Coulter is going to be the next Myers, I just think the comparison fits.

[Jenkins5]

I think they should stick Coulter in RF. I know we already have a surplus of OFs in Helena and Wisconsin, but that's what the Royals did with Wil Myers and he absolutely took off. Just my two cents.

 

P.S. I'm not saying Coulter is going to be the next Myers, I just think the comparison fits.

 

He very well could be a Myers is they stop forcing him to play a position he is awful at. He was drafted for his big bat. There is one position in baseball (maybe 2 including SS) where your big bat cannot advance without defense and that is catcher. I get it, they see/hope they have a young kid who could be a Mauer type of offensive weapon back there but he will always a liability defensively. He just doesn't seem to have that natural feel for it. Why put all that extra stress on him? Let him do what he does best....hit the crap out of the ball. I'd like to see them try 3rd base with him first before corner outfield. We have ton of COF's and he could always slide to first in the future as well. We have a big hole at 3rd base and is worth a shot to try him out there in spring training next season

[HiAndTight]

I think they should stick Coulter in RF. I know we already have a surplus of OFs in Helena and Wisconsin, but that's what the Royals did with Wil Myers and he absolutely took off. Just my two cents.

 

P.S. I'm not saying Coulter is going to be the next Myers, I just think the comparison fits.

 

He very well could be a Myers is they stop forcing him to play a position he is awful at. He was drafted for his big bat. There is one position in baseball (maybe 2 including SS) where your big bat cannot advance without defense and that is catcher. I get it, they see/hope they have a young kid who could be a Mauer type of offensive weapon back there but he will always a liability defensively. He just doesn't seem to have that natural feel for it. Why put all that extra stress on him? Let him do what he does best....hit the crap out of the ball. I'd like to see them try 3rd base with him first before corner outfield. We have ton of COF's and he could always slide to first in the future as well. We have a big hole at 3rd base and is worth a shot to try him out there in spring training next season

 

 

 

It's baffling to me how we take a kid who was in HS at this time one year ago and is 19 years old and we make definitive statements that he will NEVER good at. Really? Why? I've seen him play. He's got a great feel for the game, he's very fluid and flexible. He's also very raw, but he has a good arm.

 

 

ALL I hear is how the Brewers lack skill position players, etc..etc...and we have a young, talented catcher and we want to move him before the class behind him graduates HS.

 

 

It's nothing to move him when he hits A+/AA if the need arises, but this is how you develop the top catchers. You don't pull the plug while they're still in their teens in rookie ball.

[HiAndTight]

Again, Hellweg's K rate continues to fall and his BB rate remains too high. There's no doubt he has a huge arm but I do have my concerns about his ability to last as a starter.

 

I have my concerns about Thornburg as well, in fact there isn't 1 pitcher whom I'm truly confident in at this time.

This says it all for me. There's not one pitcher I'm convinced is a major league starter. I think Nelson is the guy I'd bet on if anyone. I thought Jungmann was going to be a sure starter, but now, I'm not so sure. Otherwise, Hellweg, Thornburg and Pena all might be best off as relievers (so might Peralta).

 

 

 

I don't think there needs to be one. I think the Brewers need to(and recently have been) assembling as many good, strong, power arms as possible and trying to develop them.

 

Hellweg was one of two pitchers with a sub 4.00 ERA in the PCL and he was around 2.84. He's looked very bad thus far in the big leagues, but my god if there has EVER been a pitcher who has been in by his defense more than him to start his career I can't recall one.

 

He's essentially Wily Peralta. Very similar pitchers. Peralta right now looks like an ace.

Jungman is coming along very well.

Jimmy Nelson is similar to Peralta and Hellweg.

Thornburg concerns me more because unlike the top three(Wily, Nelson and Hellweg) his fastball is straight. Those three all have the upsides to be #1's. Thornburg needs to pitch backwards a little bit and elevate his fastball to be more effective. Pena has that fastball/change combo that could keep hitters just completely on their heels all night long.

 

 

 

And we continue to add pitching in the system. We had a really bad run for a couple years that can be chalked up to bad luck, but I think the state of the young arms in our system is far too negative.

 

Three Peralta starts ago I would have gone Nelson/Peralta/Hellweg. Now obviously I'd flip the first two, but I've still seen enough pure stuff out of Hellweg to say that he's absolutely got top of the rotation stuff and maybe if we could convert simple double plays, and field simple ground balls, he could get out of an inning without letting it blow up(which will happen with young guys when things start going wrong).

 

1 year from now, who knows what we'll have. We could have a top 3 pick in our system, a top prospect in our system via trade and these guys could be behind those guys in the big scheme of things. Doesn't change how good they can be, just means we might have a couple guys with bigger chances of reaching that potential.

[Mass Haas]

MLB.com graduated Tyler Thornburg (innings) and placed SS Yadiel Rivera of the Manatees at their #20.

[Mass Haas]

Wonderful effort by young Alec over at BrewCrewBall here.

[Mass Haas]

Adam McCalvy reviews most everything about the newly-released MLB.com Brewers Top 20

[narwhalattack]

Tyrone Taylor seems to have cooled down in the month of July. Of course, though, he's young for the league and some slumps and inconsistencies are expected.

[Mass Haas]

Disciples of Uecker -

 

1-15

 

16-30

[Mass Haas]

Brad takes a moment from his daily DSL recap duties here to prepare his site's Top 25.

[DHonks]

I agree with some of Brad's rankings and thoughts. I'd emphasize Arcia's outstanding BB:K ratio. We haven't seen that since Michael Brantley.

 

I don't see why Morris deserves a Sept call-up. I am not high on Francisco (3TO meets Kung Fu Panda), but his numbers are at least worth considering for next year. Morris seems to need another season in AAA which is nothing to worry about. Caleb Gindl spent 3 years in AAA and he deserved the majors in his first year. Taylor Green deserves AAA but could re-establish himself. Some people think that once a guy is in AAA, teams are almost being cruel as they hold them back. However I view AAA as a great spot to store talent that needs finishing. Heck, Nelson Cruz needed how many AAA seasons?