2013-06-11 Brewers (Peralta) at Marlins (Turner), 6:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 5-4]

[trwi7]

Ha, just noticed Roenicke took Peralta out after 60 pitches for a pinch hitter and what happens? The RRR special. Squeeze play!

[The stache]

Actually it is rather knee jerk. Peralta has one bad inning and it is when should he be removed from the rotation and then all is quiet after he doesn't give up a run in the next 4 innings. So he gives up 3 runs in 6 IP that right there is keeping your team in the game and not letting it get beyond where your team can not come back. I think peoples expectations of Peralta are way to high and when they see him giving up 3 early runs it is like he is kicking their dog.

 

Peralta isn't perfect right now but his results are rather deceiving also. If he starts K'g batters more he is going to look really good and once he starts lowering the number of walks he has been giving up he will become the best pitcher on the team right now.

 

He's had more than one bad inning though, and that's the point.

 

He's not just "not perfect", he's awful this season. His ERA before tonight's game in 15 starts was 6.16. His WHIP is 1.718. In 68 innings pitched, he's struck out 42 and walked 29. He's giving up 11.7 hits and 3.8 walks per 9 IP. Can you not see that?

 

You're talking about "if he starts striking out more batters", he'll look better. Really? But he's not striking out batters. He is clearly overmatched right now at the Major League level, and needs to go back down. Giving up 6 runs a game isn't helping his confidence whatsoever, nor is it correcting any of the problems he's having. And it's certainly not helping the Brewers to get back in the race.

[TheCrew07]

I don't care where Peralta pitches or getting back into the race anymore, I care about where Peralta will get the best coaching, that's what matters to me.

[TURBO]

Henderson is now setting up for BB-Rod???? How does Henderson not come back as the closer?

 

I believe RR said this will be the case until K-Rod gets his 300th save.

 

Just one more reason to believe that RRR is not the man to manage this team. He just isn't fit for the job.

[nate82]

 

He's had more than one bad inning though, and that's the point.

 

He's not just "not perfect", he's awful this season. His ERA before tonight's game in 15 starts was 6.16. His WHIP is 1.718. In 68 innings pitched, he's struck out 42 and walked 29. He's giving up 11.7 hits and 3.8 walks per 9 IP. Can you not see that?

 

You're talking about "if he starts striking out more batters", he'll look better. Really? But he's not striking out batters. He is clearly overmatched right now at the Major League level, and needs to go back down. Giving up 6 runs a game isn't helping his confidence whatsoever, nor is it correcting any of the problems he's having. And it's certainly not helping the Brewers to get back in the race.

 

Peralta has been rather unlucky and the majority of his hits that he has been giving up are of the ground ball variety. He has a babip of .333 which is incredibly high. The two things that he is not doing very well in is walking batters and the other is striking out batters. His ERA will go down once he starts to figure out exactly how to pitch in the majors right now he is pitching way to much to contact. With the stuff that he has he really shouldn't be doing that as he should be going for the strike out more instead he is pitching to contact.

 

I don't see him as being overmatched as he is clearly not overmatched as his GB% indicates. If you look at his SwStr% you will see that he is not being overmatched and is actually as good as David Price is this year. Now I am not saying Peralta is as good as Price or his stuff is as good but batters are swinging and missing at the same rate against Peralta as they are against Price.

 

To put it in perspective Kyle Lohse is the next Brewers starter who has a SwStr% that is even close to Peralta's. Peralta has a SwStr% of 7.9, Lohse with a 7.6, and Gallardo with a 6.6%. I don't see Peralta as being overmatched he is more along the lines of he hasn't figured out how his stuff translates in the majors yet. He needs to figure this out and the only way he is going to figure this out is to keep on putting him out there every time his spot is up in the rotation.

 

So far including this start by Peralta he has 6 good starts and 5 bad starts with 3 starts being neutral. The Brewers need Peralta to continue on developing at the major league level as sending him down to AAA really doesn't help all that much for him or the team. Narveson would be the one to take over Peralta's spot and you would feel more comfortable with him to get the team back into the race? I am sorry but there really isn't anyone in the minors that is going to pitch any better than what Peralta is doing every other player down in the minors will have the same problems that Peralta is having or would be worse.

[TURBO]

I also question putting Henderson in the game in a crucial spot like that so soon back from the DL, but hindsight is always 20/20.

 

Our bullpen has been working, why not get him back in a game when the game isn't on the line, see what he has, and go from there.

 

To me, that seems like common sense, but I truly don't believe that our mangaer has any of that in his skull.

[Polish Falcons]

Actually it is rather knee jerk. Peralta has one bad inning and it is when should he be removed from the rotation and then all is quiet after he doesn't give up a run in the next 4 innings. So he gives up 3 runs in 6 IP that right there is keeping your team in the game and not letting it get beyond where your team can not come back. I think peoples expectations of Peralta are way to high and when they see him giving up 3 early runs it is like he is kicking their dog.

 

Peralta isn't perfect right now but his results are rather deceiving also. If he starts K'g batters more he is going to look really good and once he starts lowering the number of walks he has been giving up he will become the best pitcher on the team right now.

 

He's had more than one bad inning though, and that's the point.

 

He's not just "not perfect", he's awful this season. His ERA before tonight's game in 15 starts was 6.16. His WHIP is 1.718. In 68 innings pitched, he's struck out 42 and walked 29. He's giving up 11.7 hits and 3.8 walks per 9 IP. Can you not see that?

 

You're talking about "if he starts striking out more batters", he'll look better. Really? But he's not striking out batters. He is clearly overmatched right now at the Major League level, and needs to go back down. Giving up 6 runs a game isn't helping his confidence whatsoever, nor is it correcting any of the problems he's having. And it's certainly not helping the Brewers to get back in the race.

 

Stache, this is an interesting change of pace from 10 days ago when you started an entire appreciation thread about "big Wily" who was "really staring to put things together" and who "has the ability to be a true ace" as he looked looked "absolutely outstanding" and therefore deserves "A big, enthusiastic round of applause".

 

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=29995

[The stache]

I don't care where Peralta pitches or getting back into the race anymore, I care about where Peralta will get the best coaching, that's what matters to me.

 

I would agree, and clearly Rick Kranitz is not the best for Wily right now.

[The stache]

 

Stache, this is an interesting change of pace from 10 days ago when you started an entire appreciation thread about "big Wily" who was "really staring to put things together" and who "has the ability to be a true ace" as he looked looked "absolutely outstanding" and therefore deserves "A big, enthusiastic round of applause".

 

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=29995

 

I remember that thread. I also said "I don't want to be premature, as it's just one start." It looked like he was starting to get control of his pitches. Since then, he's been awful, giving up 8 runs in 11 innings to offensive juggernauts Philadelphia and Miami. It goes to show the talent is there, but the consistency is not. That is why he needs to go back down, to work on refining his craft. In the Majors, he's just not consistent.

 

It doesn't at all lessen my enthusiasm about his future. But right now Wily pitching in Milwaukee is not helping Wily, or Milwaukee.

[The stache]

 

So far including this start by Peralta he has 6 good starts and 5 bad starts with 3 starts being neutral. The Brewers need Peralta to continue on developing at the major league level as sending him down to AAA really doesn't help all that much for him or the team. Narveson would be the one to take over Peralta's spot and you would feel more comfortable with him to get the team back into the race? I am sorry but there really isn't anyone in the minors that is going to pitch any better than what Peralta is doing every other player down in the minors will have the same problems that Peralta is having or would be worse.

 

I don't care about what Wily's done the whole year. What he did in April is not at all germane to the conversation. I'm concerned what he's doing now, and he is clearly struggling. In his last six starts, Peralta is 1-5 with a 6.98 ERA. In those starts, he has thrown 29 2/3 innings, allowed 43 hits and 14 walks. That's a WHIP of 1.92.

 

He's not just "unlucky", he's not getting the job done. I don't know what's going on, if there's a flaw in his mechanics, if he's tipping his pitches, whatever. He's not getting the coaching he needs at this level. Kranitz is incapable of helping pitchers.

[Polish Falcons]

 

Stache, this is an interesting change of pace from 10 days ago when you started an entire appreciation thread about "big Wily" who was "really staring to put things together" and who "has the ability to be a true ace" as he looked looked "absolutely outstanding" and therefore deserves "A big, enthusiastic round of applause".

 

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=29995

 

I remember that thread. I also said "I don't want to be premature, as it's just one start." It looked like he was starting to get control of his pitches. Since then, he's been awful, giving up 8 runs in 11 innings to offensive juggernauts Philadelphia and Miami. It goes to show the talent is there, but the consistency is not. That is why he needs to go back down, to work on refining his craft. In the Majors, he's just not consistent.

 

It doesn't at all lessen my enthusiasm about his future. But right now Wily pitching in Milwaukee is not helping Wily, or Milwaukee.

 

 

I have wondered about sending Peralta down to the minors too but still find it interesting how different your tone is towards Peralta on a night he threw a quality start and was very effective throwing just 60 pitches through 6 innings allowing 5 hits and 1 walk. Without being pinch hit for and without Ron Roenicke as a manager that is a path towards a complete game and a win.

[brewcrewdue80]

'Stache

 

Considering our #4 is Figaro and #5 is Piggy Back duo of Gorzo/Thornburg right now, I cant fathom an ability for the club to send Peralta down.

When Estrada/Narveson/Burgos are back healthy and Peralta is showing continuing struggles then maybe the move will be justified But currently this team has 3 Starting Pitchers Peralta being one of them.

 

As for RRR taking Peralta out to be pinch hit, well, after B2B 8inning outings by Lohse/Gallardo I'm guessing he felt confident having a fully rested bullpen to complete the game from there.

Would it have been a move I did? No. I'd have let Peralta pitch til he was at least in the 80s before pinch hitting for him. Maybe the game turns for the Brewers and they go up 3-5runs and that allows Peralta to stay in the game til he reached mid 90s-100s in pitches and possible CG. This especially when RPs are starting my next two games, you figure your Bullpen is in for some abuse.

[MJLiverock]

Henderson is now setting up for BB-Rod???? How does Henderson not come back as the closer?

 

I believe RR said this will be the case until K-Rod gets his 300th save.

 

Just one more reason to believe that RRR is not the man to manage this team. He just isn't fit for the job.

 

I also question putting Henderson in the game in a crucial spot like that so soon back from the DL, but hindsight is always 20/20.

 

Our bullpen has been working, why not get him back in a game when the game isn't on the line, see what he has, and go from there.

 

To me, that seems like common sense, but I truly don't believe that our mangaer has any of that in his skull.

 

So which is it? You think RR is dumb for letting K-Rod continue to close until he gets his 300th save but RR is also dumb for not sticking with the what has been working which is K-Rod closing? Looks like you just contradicted yourself in the twisted logic to always find fault with managerial decisions.

[xisxisxis]

I don't care where Peralta pitches or getting back into the race anymore, I care about where Peralta will get the best coaching, that's what matters to me.

 

Unfortunately the way Wily has pitched I don't think the Cards would give us much for him.

[TURBO]

I think it is dumb for RRR to allow K-Rod to continue closing if the only reason is to get his 300 saves. That is correct. If the only reason is so he can get that magic number 300, and that is all that goes into his thought process, then yes, I think that is dumb.

 

If he continues to use him as our closer because he thinks he is effective in that role, then I can get behind that line of thought, but when he comes out and says he will use him to close so he can get number 300, that is just dumb.

 

Just so happens that he is close to that number when Henderson came off the DL. Should Henderson have been used in a game on the line situation after just returning??? In my opinion, no.

 

I don't see the twisted logic at all.

 

K-Rod has done super in the closer role and shouldn't be removed if he remains effective. I don't like that he is being used in the role for a stat padding though. Why not just say K-Rod has been great, he will continue to close. No need to say out loud that you will use him to get save number 300. that is just not very team friendly.

[3and2Fastball]

A few thoughts on last night's game:

 

In general, you want your best relief pitcher (Henderson) throwing in the most high-leverage situations, not just simply "closing in the 9th", so in that regard using Henderson in the 8th was the correct move in my opinion

 

RRR might be "saying" that they want K-Rod to get that 300th Save, but hopefully the real reason K-Rod is closing is to showcase him for a trade in July