Brewers High-A Future -- Latest: Manatees choose Braves; Rockies May Like Carolina, Too

[MrTPlush]

One would hope Manatees management would want to be able to market an association with the MLBPipeline.com #1 ranked system to their Kissimmee fan base.

 

C'mon, Gord Ash, butter 'em up!

 

Too bad even when you put talent on that team they still epically suck. I doubt anyone in Florida cares about the Brewers top prospects. Heck do they even care about winning games? That team has quite a bit of talent now and is 39 games under .500.

[FVBrewerFan]

One would hope Manatees management would want to be able to market an association with the MLBPipeline.com #1 ranked system to their Kissimmee fan base.

 

C'mon, Gord Ash, butter 'em up!

 

Too bad even when you put talent on that team they still epically suck. I doubt anyone in Florida cares about the Brewers top prospects. Heck do they even care about winning games? That team has quite a bit of talent now and is 39 games under .500.

 

Good points. No, I don't think 99% of fans would care about Brewers top prospects, and 90% wouldn't care about winning. MiLB is about fan experience, especially at the A ball level.

 

With that said, being a Milwaukee affiliate would have one advantage. Masses of Wisconsinites go down to the Orlando area for vacation. If the Brewers market the Fire Frogs up north, and Kiss markets them down there, you would think plenty of fans would take a day to go to game instead of spending thousands at the theme parks.

 

In other words, attendance would be driven as much (or more) by tourists from WI rather than relying only on local population.

[FVBrewerFan]

Does anyone know why more teams don't just have their own affiliates. Do current owners not want to sell forcing a team to build their own park to have their own? Does MLB frown upon on it? Owners of MLB franchises don't want the added personnel?

 

I mean I just don't get it. Feels like a way to make the MLB product better and really add some revenue.

 

I've never understood this either. Seems like it makes perfect sense for a team to control the destiny of their minor league affiliates, especially a team like the Brewers where it's essential to develop their own talent.

 

Is it just a case of "this is the way it's always been done?" I mean, even if they broke even or lost a little money it would be worth it.

[pogokat]

I think they don't like losing money---and a lot of the franchises are losers, that's why we see teams moving around all the time. I would guess that the Brewers, like most other teams would rather farm out the system so that they don't take on the risk of losing millions of dollars in a city that stops supporting minor league baseball. let someone else assume the risk.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think they don't like losing money---and a lot of the franchises are losers, that's why we see teams moving around all the time. I would guess that the Brewers, like most other teams would rather farm out the system so that they don't take on the risk of losing millions of dollars in a city that stops supporting minor league baseball. let someone else assume the risk.

 

Exactly, it's cost certainty that's the goal. To have a successful minor league operation requires a lot of marketing skill. You market to families and groups with promotions and atmosphere. The team is way down the list. Some markets make a lot of sense from the baseball perspective, with weather etc, but don't hold attraction as entertainment alternative to the local population.

[FVBrewerFan]

I think they don't like losing money---and a lot of the franchises are losers, that's why we see teams moving around all the time. I would guess that the Brewers, like most other teams would rather farm out the system so that they don't take on the risk of losing millions of dollars in a city that stops supporting minor league baseball. let someone else assume the risk.

 

Exactly, it's cost certainty that's the goal. To have a successful minor league operation requires a lot of marketing skill. You market to families and groups with promotions and atmosphere. The team is way down the list. Some markets make a lot of sense from the baseball perspective, with weather etc, but don't hold attraction as entertainment alternative to the local population.

 

Right, that's why you pick the right people to run the minor league teams. Just like any other facet of the organization. It costs a lot to pay scouts too, they could do away with that and just use a 3rd party scouting service.

 

Yea, you're going to lose money picking a bad city and/or poor marketing. So...don't do that. Like anything else, if you pick the right people the affiliates will do just fine. Even if they don't, it's not like you're losing tens of millions a year or something. So worst case scenario you lose a little money and avoid ending up in places like CS, Fresno, Vegas, BC, etc. Then when you DO find a good home it's only for two years.

[jerichoholicninja]

Does anyone know why more teams don't just have their own affiliates. Do current owners not want to sell forcing a team to build their own park to have their own? Does MLB frown upon on it? Owners of MLB franchises don't want the added personnel?

 

I mean I just don't get it. Feels like a way to make the MLB product better and really add some revenue.

 

I've never understood this either. Seems like it makes perfect sense for a team to control the destiny of their minor league affiliates, especially a team like the Brewers where it's essential to develop their own talent.

 

Is it just a case of "this is the way it's always been done?" I mean, even if they broke even or lost a little money it would be worth it.

 

I wish I could remember exactly what he said but Bill Veeck wrote about this in his book because for a time major league teams did own their minor league teams.

[1992casey]

Some of them still do. I think the Braves own most of their farm clubs.

[jerichoholicninja]

Some of them still do. I think the Braves own most of their farm clubs.

 

It's only been in the past few years that they've actually purchased them though.

[1992casey]

My recollection is that the Braves have owned most of their farm clubs for like forever, but I can't find any evidence to prove it.

[TheCrew07]

I want to say they just bought into one within the last couple of years because I remember bringing up that I thought it would be a really good idea for the Brewers to follow.

 

I take the security of player development over potentially losing money. What's worse, losing $800,000/year if people decide to quit supporting the team or $10,000,000+/year on the last 2 years of a worthless FA contract?

 

As I said at the time of the Wolf & Chapman signings, would you rather have an aging and declining mid to bottom of the rotation guy or go after Chapman who had top of the rotation potential with a fall back option of being a back end reliever? Who's ultimately the better value? $36 mil for 3 years of Wolf or 6 years of Chapman? I still think Chapman could have started, CIN was just impatient with him and never let him develop.

 

The Brewers have always needed to focus more on development than aging FA retreads, even if just provides 1 extra player every 2 years, that's still significant cost savings over going the FA route to plug the same hole.

[madbad2000]

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20160822&content_id=197032952&fext=.jsp&vkey=pr_l122&sid=l122

 

So High Desert and Bakersfield moving to the Carolina League. Kinston will be affiliated with the Rangers, whom own the team. Other location not settled, but looking like Fayetteville, NC is a leader. I'm ok with the Brewers moving to the Carolina League as I can now selfishly see the team play on occasion as a transplanted Marylander.

[FVBrewerFan]

I still like Kissimmee, only because that would be ready next year. Didn't they say 2019 for Fayetteville? That would just mean another affiliate bouncing around for the next 3 years. As long as Kissimmee would be more of a neutral park, that means more to me than anything else.

[ZBTMP]

Per the previously linked article, the Astros are already directly working with the city of Fayetteville to get a stadium built so I doubt there is much of an opportunity for the Brewers to jump in at this point.

 

This leaves the Mariners looking for an affiliate and the hitters paradise of Lancaster looking for a parent club.

[Mass Haas]

Looks like there's hope for a Carolina League affiliation for the Brewers.

 

The High-A dance of musical chairs is winding down.

 

Just this week, Arizona re-upped with Visalia and San Diego renewed with Lake Elsinore, thankfully taking two of the three available California League affiliations off the market.

 

As you can see here at Ballpark Digest, there are only three open slots left for the Brewers, Braves, and Rockies.

 

Tampa Bay (Charlotte) and Seattle (Modesto) aren't quite official yet, but it appears ownership ties will keep them in their current locations.

 

Which leaves --

 

-- The new Kissimmee Florida State League location being adopted by the Brevard County affiliate

 

-- Lancaster in the California League, a noted windblown offensive environment

 

-- Carolina in the Carolina League - the Mudcats are based in Zebulon, NC (suburb of Raleigh)

 

You'll find a blurb or two like this on Braves' fan sites like "Tomahawk Take" --

 

LINK: "With the Braves likely done in Carolina, they sure sent their affiliation out with the Mudcats out with a bang offensively"...

 

There had been much speculation all summer, and more recently, that the Rockies will be going to Lancaster (if so, "whew!").

 

Here's a brief (and bit dated) review of Five County Stadium in Zebulon.

 

If I'm reading Advanced Ballpark Effects data correctly, the Carolina League is certainly the most neutral of the three High-A leagues, although Carolina's park tends to suppress offense within the context of the league.

 

So as long as Colorado saves the Brewers from Lancaster, looks like this may come down to whether Manatees ownership wants to jump to the Braves or stay with their 12-year partner in Milwaukee. The Brewers relationship has produced miserable W-L results but has the promise of a ton of exciting talent moving up to High-A in 2017-18, and a partnership with the current "#1 system in baseball", as per MLB Pipeline.

[pogokat]

The Braves used to have spring training in kissimee, but i think they left. it would be somewhat odd for them to go back, but at the same time, the disney crowds would probably rather watch a braves farm team than a brewers one. GO MUDCATS.

[ZBTMP]

The Braves used to have spring training in kissimee, but i think they left. it would be somewhat odd for them to go back, but at the same time, the disney crowds would probably rather watch a braves farm team than a brewers one. GO MUDCATS.

 

The Braves, while actively searching for an upgrade, have had Spring Training at Disney World in Lake Buena Vista since 1998 and will be there until at least 2019. Lancaster to Colorado makes some sense. There is no facility problem, just an extreme offensive environment.

 

Since 2 of my favorite minor league hats are the Brevard County Manatees and the Carolina Mudcats, I'd be happy with Zebulon. Though the Fire Frogs has a ton of potential as well.

[molitor fan]

The North Carolina High School team I coached played in Zebulon one year in the State Championship.....the park itself is desolate and a bit weathered and is pretty badly in need of updating. The park itself is fair, perhaps a bit more offensively geared but distances conventional. One of out players that is now in the Giants organization hit the scoreboard with a blast in the 2nd inning - which was something apparently only one minor league player had done before - it was about 475 feet...We won the championship, so I have very positive memories of Zebulon, and is only 2 and a half hours away from me, so I would be very pleased if that is where High A ends up

[FVBrewerFan]

Braves to Kissimmee. As usual, every Brewers affiliate has to wait and get the last seat on the merry go round.

[patrickgpe]

Braves to Kissimmee. As usual, every Brewers affiliate has to wait and get the last seat on the merry go round.

link? i can't find this anywhere

[NolanBratt]

Braves to Kissimmee. As usual, every Brewers affiliate has to wait and get the last seat on the merry go round.

link? i can't find this anywhere

 

"#Braves announced they are moving high-A club to Kissimmee, FL in Florida State League. 4-yr PDC signed with former Brevard County Manatees"

[paul253]

I guess that's what happens a when you throw out a team that finished like 60 games under .500

[pogokat]

I think Mudcats is better than FSL. If thats what this means, then this is great news!

[jw5511986]

John Manuel seems to think Wilmington is also an option for the Brewers

[MadThinker88]

Being in the Carolina League for High A is a great overall outcome..