Brewers High-A Future -- Latest: Manatees choose Braves; Rockies May Like Carolina, Too

[Mass Haas]

Lots going on in Florida stadium-wise, but the best Benjamin Hill of MiLB.com can say about the future of the Manatees is it's "unclear".

 

I've been in touch with Hill (and the Baseball America guys, and the Florida Today staff) on this topic, Hill's very good, but it's frustrating the status of the franchise after 2016 is a complete black hole of info right now.

[ZBTMP]

Is it too much to ask that the Brewers be proactive on this one? The Brewers got duped or somehow ignored all the signs on losing Nashville.

 

Maybe Im just being a negative nancy, but its not hard to envision that the Astros would want there high A affiliate at their new state of facility and Brevard being without a home, it would seem to make sense on how they could make that happen. Ending up in Lancaster at a stadium called "the hanger" for its hitter friendly conditions seems like a very real possibility to me. Yuck.

[Mudville9]

Agreed on Lancaster. I lived there for a few years and while the stadium is decent, it is really just a prettier sister of High Desert.

[Mass Haas]

Keep in mind that the Brewers formal official affiliation with the Brevard County Manatees ends after this season, but could be extended. If so, Milwaukee could avoid a potential assignment to a California League High-A affiliate.

 

The Houston Astros are leaving their spring training home in Kissimmee, heading to a new shared complex with the Nationals in Palm Beach in 2016.

 

If the report below is accurate (seemingly so), both the Manatees and the Florida State League will have resolved their need to maintain a home for one of the league's 12 franchises, stabilizing that situation.

 

It would mean that the new shared facility in Palm Beach may not be hosting Florida State League teams.

 

This next sentence is just conjecture on my part, but the California League has been looking for new homes for at least two of its franchises, and while the focus has been on the Carolina League for that, the new Palm Beach complex would at least open the possibility of migrating two teams to an expanded Florida State League.

 

The Kissimmee affiliate would seem to have its choice of partners now, the Astros would be particularly interested, one would think. So the Brewers 2017 High-A situation is still very much up in the air, even if the Manatees themselves now know where they will be playing.

 

Fascinating from the start.

 

Finally, it looks like a resolution --

 

Minor-league baseball returning in 2017

The Kissimmee Cobras last played at Osceola County Stadium in 2000

By Ken Jackson, Osceola News-Gazette Staff Writer

 

Professional baseball will return to Osceola County in 2017, but the games will begin in April instead of March.

 

Following a spring training love-fest this year connected to the Houston Astros final appearance that ended a 31-year run, minor league baseball will return after a 16-year hiatus.

 

County officials confirmed this week a three-year deal has been signed to bring a Class A Florida State League team to Osceola County Stadium starting in the 2017 season.

 

County officials declined to say what team would relocate, but the Brevard County Manatees, the Milwaukee Brewers’ FSL affiliate, would be a strong possibility. They currently play at Space Coast Stadium in Viera, but the Washington Nationals are joining the Astros for spring training at West Palm Beach next year, and the United States Specialty Sports Association is moving its national headquarters from Kissimmee to Viera, leaving the Manatees seeking a home.

 

Don Miers, Osceola County’s director of events and facilities, said the deal has been in the works for several months but had recently been vetted by the county and Experience Kissimmee, its tourism marketing arm. He said hosting a full-season baseball team benefits the community.

 

“It’s good for our locals for pro baseball to be here, and it’s something different and inexpensive for our tourists to do at night,” he said. “And it keeps our foot in the door for attracting another major-league franchise for spring training. The minor team’s major-league personnel will be coming through here to look at prospects, and other teams’ scouts and personnel will be here, too.”

 

County staff said the deal became a better fit after being shortened from 10 to three years and getting assurances that the complex will remain available for youth and amateur events.

 

“It’s a brilliant partnership,” County Manager Don Fisher said. “We have a shorter deal and the assurances there won’t be conflicts.”

 

Miers said the professional team will actually enhance the youth and amateur events.

 

“The kids and amateurs who play here on the back fields will be able to see how the pros do it,” he said. “And they’ll be here to work with the amateur events for trophy presentations and such. This will bring a year-round professional baseball presence that has been lacking since the (Kissimmee) Cobras left.”

 

Kissimmee hosted the Osceola Astros, later the Cobras, from 1985-2000, winning the FSL championship in 1999. Among the players who played here on their way to the major leagues were 1996 National League MVP Ken Caminiti, Tony Eusebio, Bobby Abreu, Kenny Lofton, Roy Oswalt, Morgan Ensberg, Brad Lidge, Tim Redding, Julio Lugo and Lance Berkman.

[FVBrewerFan]

Not knowing anything about this park, would this be an upgrade in terns of facilities? More importantly, is it a more neutral park than Brevard (where bats go to die)?

[Brewerswillsurprise]

The kissimmee Stadium is first class. Huge up grade to Brevard facility now. Definite win for the Brewers org if it happens.

[FVBrewerFan]

Is it a bit more hitter friendly than Brevard though? Not hoping for a launching pad or anything, I just like the minor league parks to be as neutral as possible.

[pogokat]

yay disney world and baseball!

[brewmann04]

so will they drop the brewers when they move into this stadium like when the Nashville dumped the brewers for the A's

[Mass Haas]

so will they drop the brewers when they move into this stadium like when the Nashville dumped the brewers for the A's

 

Very possible, especially if Houston, desperate to escape Lancaster, CA, and very familiar with the Kissimmee digs, shows interest.

[Mass Haas]

Via Tom Haudricourt --

 

Manatees moving: The Brewers' high Class A Brevard County affiliate is expected to move to a new venue in the Florida State League in 2017, most likely Osceola County Stadium. With the Washington Nationals moving to a new spring training site in West Palm Beach, Space Coast Stadium in Viera is expected to be designated for use other than affiliated baseball.

 

"They are going to need to relocate," said Gord Ash, the Brewers vice president for special projects. "We keep hearing Osceola."

 

The Brewers' player development contract with Brevard County expires after this season but they wish to keep their high Class A affiliate in the FSL. Therefore, they would seek to follow the Manatees to Osceola.

[FVBrewerFan]

I won't consider this resolved until I hear the announcement that a contract has been signed.

[Mass Haas]

Manatees future seems to be down south

Michael Parsons, Florida Today

 

It doesn’t take a whole lot of imagination to connect the dots on the future of professional baseball in Brevard County.

 

As a child I used to love connecting the dots to see the picture that eventually formed.

 

In this case, the dots lead to Kissimmee, or at least they appear to. Those dots can become anything you want them to become with a little imagination. It doesn’t take a whole lot of imagination to connect the dots on the future of professional baseball in Brevard County.

 

Fact is, this is the final summer of professional baseball in Brevard County. The Brevard County Manatees, who have been playing at Space Coast Stadium for 23 seasons, are being forced to leave.

 

New General Manager Chad Lovitt told me that consistent with their agreement with the county and the Washington Nationals, Space Coast Stadium will be turned over to United States Specialty Sports Association at the end of the 2016 season.

 

But where will the Manatees go? That has been the million dollar question for quite some time.

 

Here is where the dots come in.

 

The Washington Nationals and Houston Astros are moving into a brand new complex still being built in West Palm Beach. Neither team has a Single A team playing in the Florida State League. Although that could change, it would mean expanding the league from the 12 teams it currently has and taking teams out of the California or Carolina leagues.

 

Basically messing up the entire Single A baseball landscape.

 

Yet Osceola County announced last week that professional baseball will return to Osceola County in 2017.

 

Yep, a Single A team will return to Osceola County Stadium after a 16-year hiatus when the Astros' Single A team moved to the California League.

 

Of course the announcement did not include which team that would be, but it doesn’t take too many dots to connect this one.

 

The Manatees have been searching for a new home ever since it became apparent that the Washington Nationals were leaving, which left the Manatees in limbo since the deal with the county included both teams and the Manatees could never afford the upkeep of Space Coast Stadium without the Nationals.

 

There are other options - the Manatees could try and move to the California League or maybe the Carolina League, but both of those already have even numbers, unless there is a team from those leagues moving to Kissimmee.

 

Possible? Yes, but not really something teams do very often.

 

The Manatees have said from the beginning that they wanted to stay here and in the Florida State League. So if they can’t stay here, why not move a few miles south and find a home?

 

The dots seem to all fall into place and Osceola County is happy to have baseball back as it keeps the door open for a Major League team in the future.

 

So in baseball terms, it would end up being one big trade. Brevard County sends Osceola County the Manatees in exchange for the USSSA.

[Mass Haas]

IMPORTANT: While the Manatees are moving to Kissimmee, just outside Orlando, it remains to be seen whether the franchise will still be affiliated with the Brewers. Their Player Development Contract is up as of this fall, and there have been no reports of extension talks. It is thought that the Brewers would like to retain the affiliation.

 

***

 

Formal update today via the Orlando Sentinel --

 

Kissimmee lands Brewers' Florida State League affiliate

Orlando Sentinel Staff Report

 

http://www.trbimg.com/img-576d30a1/turbine/orl-osceola-county-stadium-photo-20150305/750/750x422

 

Osceola County Stadium will get a Class A Florida State League team, beginning in 2017 when the Brevard County Manatees move from Space Coast Stadium in Viera. (Stephen M. Dowell photo/Orlando Sentinel)

 

Professional baseball is not leaving Osceola County after all.

 

The Class A Brevard County Manatees will move to Osceola County Stadium in Kissimmee, beginning with the 2017 Florida State League season, according to a news release Friday. The Manatees are the Milwaukee Brewers' top Class A affiliate and currently play at Space Coast Stadium.

 

A news conference is planned for Thursday.

 

The Houston Astros had trained at the 5,300-seat ballpark in Kissimmee since 1985 but are moving to a new complex in West Palm Beach that they will share with the Washington Nationals, beginning next spring. The Nationals had trained in Viera since 2003, dating to their days as the Montreal Expos.

[And That]

FWIW:

 

#Brewers PDC with Brevard expires after 2016 season but look for them to renew with relocated high Class A club.

Dunno if that's based on any inside information. The "look for them" phrase makes me think yes, but who knows.

[brewmann04]

Yes never sure until it's signed

[torts]

lets say they do renew, is this stadium any less of a pitchers paradise than the one they're leaving, or is that a trend at all of the stadiums in that league thanks to the climate?

[1992casey]

I think the fact that Kissimmee is inland helps considerably.

[Mass Haas]

Adam McCalvy -- Brewers hope to move with Class A Manatees

[Mass Haas]

2016 is the Brewers 12th year associated with Brevard County.

 

Franchise history, W/L records

 

In those 12 years, the Manatees have posted just three winning records, and have qualified for the playoffs only twice (this, in a split-season league), so 24 opportunities to qualify over those seasons. Brevard hasn't made a postseason appearance since 2009.

 

Included in that Brewer affiliation history are recent marks of 55-80 last season and 23-48 thus far in 2016, which includes losses in their most recent eight games.

 

The Brewers can tell media that they anticipate a renewal with Brevard's ownership team.

 

But we've seen this ship sail before, haven't we?

 

Milwaukee certainly thought the Sounds' management would remain faithful, but in the end, the Brewers failure to place competitive teams in Nashville, particularly in their most recent seasons, proved the reason the Sounds made a change.

 

If the Manatees were going to renew with an obviously willing partner, why wouldn't they have already?

 

There are going to be several organizations very interested in Kissimmee, most of them anxious clubs looking to escape the California League. Darn right the Manatees are going to wait to hear from those clubs once talks can begin at the end of this season, although backroom whispers are most certainly happening now.

 

Heck, even the Astros, very familiar with the Kissimmee facility, are going to want out (and fast) of the Lancaster nightmare in California.

 

So the Brewers can say all is good with their 12-year partner, but 12 years can translate to "stale" as well, right? Milwaukee can send all the big league rehabbers to High-A, and coordinate work in the community, etc., but in the end, we should prepare for late night and very crooked-number box scores coming out of some forsaken California League jetstream next spring.

 

And if the Manatees do re-up with the Crew, I'll applaud heartily, but will also be absolutely shocked.

 

Et tu, Nashville? Oh, after a tough first year with the Athletics, there you are, leading your division in 2016. Yes, it's all about player development, but even the locals (and especially their owners) like W's.

[igor67]

The Brewers are obviously not the richest team, but I continue to be surprised that more teams don't find ways to purchase minor league affiliates that they like. Surely in a year with the major league payroll down they could find some capital toward this investment.

[jerichoholicninja]

At the A ball level does winning really have that big of an effect on attendance? I would guess the biggest draw is who the parent team is. I don't think the T-Rats have won a whole lot since they became a Brewer affiliate but attendance has been great. I would guess the Yankees and Red Sox would be the biggest draw in Florida followed by the Marlins and Rays and then everyone else is pretty much equal.

[MrTPlush]

The article is interesting. Don't know if the attendance spike has continued.

 

http://ballparkdigest.com/2016/05/23/manatees-experiencing-attendance-jump/

[MadThinker88]

At the A ball level does winning really have that big of an effect on attendance? I would guess the biggest draw is who the parent team is. I don't think the T-Rats have won a whole lot since they became a Brewer affiliate but attendance has been great. I would guess the Yankees and Red Sox would be the biggest draw in Florida followed by the Marlins and Rays and then everyone else is pretty much equal.

 

Winning is winning, regardless of level. It helps to draw in the casual fan which means more merchandise and concession sales. Those are the things needed to keep clubs going..

 

I would not be surprised if the need to generate excitement at Brevard County impacted the thinking of where to place Ray to start his minor league career. Just hope it doesn't backfire on the Crew.

[FVBrewerFan]

The article is interesting. Don't know if the attendance spike has continued.

 

http://ballparkdigest.com/2016/05/23/manatees-experiencing-attendance-jump/

 

Yea, that's why I don't think winning has very much to do with MiLB attendance. I didn't say it has NO effect. But I think tradition matters, cities that have a history of supporting MiLB. Promotion matters, and I think that's what is helping Brevard this year. Overall quality of the management team matters, as that helps generate season ticket sales, more groups, company outings, etc. And weather matters.

 

Bottom line, supporting the local MiLB team either becomes a fun thing to do (like in Appleton) or it doesn't. Casual fans don't care about wins. They go to have a good time, or go because their company is having an outing, etc.