Fire sale on the way?

[brewcrewdue80]

I'm not saying it's not possible to trade Ramirez, but his salary, age, and physical condition is going to limit what you get back for him. So what's the point, especially given that the salary you save will likely end up being spent on another overpriced mediocre starting pitcher who'd jam up a spot in the rotation that could go to a young pitcher.

 

The point in trading for ARam is that a team like the Dodgers gets a .280s+ hitter with Power to take place of sub .200s hitters they have on their team now. You build and buy a team to win now and Have a huge Lineup hole that ARam fills completely in every way. You worry about ARam missing games? HanRam slides over at 3b again while that SS/2b with sub .200 hitting plays that game or two ARam sits.

 

And take a little faith the FO will learn to avoid signings like Lohse's. Though, if he's traded for any kind of top 150 prospect, I'll just label it as a Successful 2013 Draft pick.

[Dollarbill13]

It's probably too late now but I wish Melvin would have taken advantage of the ability to trade for competitive balance picks this year, especially given that he gave up our 1st rounder for Lohse. If nothing else, it would have increased our bonus pool to give us more flexibility in adding talent to our organization. I wonder what the Tigers would have wanted for the #39 pick. It would have added $1.4M to our bonus pool, which would be roughly the equivalent of moving from #54 to #14, at least in terms of dollars available.

[TURBO]

But why would Melvin trade within the division? In fact, not many trades happen within divisions, at least to my knowledge.

 

He had no problem giving away our number one draft pick to a division rival...

 

[logan82]

But why would Melvin trade within the division? In fact, not many trades happen within divisions, at least to my knowledge.

More likely would be the Reds not wanting to trade with us. Giving them Ramirez while we are not good really doesn't hurt us much.

[logan82]

The other reason I don't think Melvin would make the move is that we don't have a legit 3B prospect. Francisco or Green could be a stop-gap for a while, but we literally have no impact 3B in the pipeline, though I guess you can say that about many positions given the state of the farm system today. Melvin has repeatedly said that he doesn't see the benefit of trading MLB players to plug a different hole because then he created another hole he has to plug.

I don't think that should be a concern. We are not likely to be very good while Ramirez is on the team so I don't think losing a couple more games a year will mean much. Even with Ramirez we may still have to cover a couple years at 3B after he leaves.

[TheCrew07]

I agree logan but DM has repeated referenced filling one hole by creating another over the years. He doesn't see the moves working in conjunction to create a better team, he sees it as another problem to solve.

[Hammer]

I wonder if Mark A. will allow Melvin to be the one to do a "fire sale". Also, the thought of trading for some premium lower level pitching and then allowing the current Brewers pitching coaches to develop them is a bit frightening...

[TooLiveBrew]

But why would Melvin trade within the division? In fact, not many trades happen within divisions, at least to my knowledge.

 

He had no problem giving away our number one draft pick to a division rival...

 

It wasn't given to the Cards (that was the old CBA rule), the Brewers' 2013 first rounder was simply forfeited (new CBA rule). The Cards receive simply a supplemental round (btw. rounds 1 & 2) pick as compensation for Lohse signing.

[StearnsFTW]

I wonder if Mark A. will allow Melvin to be the one to do a "fire sale". Also, the thought of trading for some premium lower level pitching and then allowing the current Brewers pitching coaches to develop them is a bit frightening...

 

I thought about this too, but some, if not all, of these guys will be far more valuable in July than December.

[Roderick]

Whatever they trade needs to bring in pitching. I have no interest in adding under performing young bats already in the majors or more minors bats. This team needs pitching period.

 

The Brewers do have a strong need for pitching but they are also pretty barren at 3rd base and catcher. We have Coulter obviously but he is a LONG way away. I'd be ok trading for a 3rd base or catching prospect as well as pitching.

 

Catching? Lucroy and Maldanado are young and will be around for years.

 

The only thing I think would happen is if some playoff team got desperate and really wanted Maldy. The Brewers would just have to ask for a minor league catcher back plus whatever else they get.

[LouisEly]

Melvin has said you can get more for position players in the off-season than at the trading deadline. Maybe that's the case, maybe it isn't.

 

I don't necessarily think they need to do a fire sale. Three moves I think will put them in good spot and still maintain the core of the team:

 

1) A-Ram + K-Rod to Dodgers for Lee + Michael Thomas (if they can't get Lee, then Magill + Pederson + Thomas)

2) Gonzalez + Kh. Davis to Indians for Salazar + Cody Anderson

3) Aoki to Red Sox for Cecchini, Ranaudo, or Owens

-or-

3) Aoki to Giants for Kickham or Agosta+Duvall

 

Lee/Magill and Salazar give them upper-level pitching prospects, Thomas gives them a LHP prospect, and Anderson gives them a lower-level pitching prospect. Pederson would be RF/CF of the future and give them the flexibility to move Gomez down the line. Cecchini gives them their 3B prospect, or Ranaudo/Owens would add more pitching. They will still be bad this year and next giving them two years of high draft picks, then in 2015 have pitching reinforcements (Lee/Magill, Nelson, Hellweg, Salazar, Jungmann, Pena, Thomas) and/or Pederson arrive to supplement the core (Braun, Segura, Gomez, Lucroy, Gallardo, Peralta).

 

They're not going to get anything for Weeks now; give him the season to get back on track and see if he can increase his value and move him in the offseason. Hart like Weeks has no value now, and will very likely pass through waivers in August and give them until late August to see if he can increase his trade value.

[paul253]

Have people on this board already soured on Jonathan Lucroy that much? He's 26 and under team control through 2017. I don't see the need to upgrade our catching prospects right now.

 

Not at all. I love Lucroy and put him on my untradeable list. But I'd still like to see some more depth in the minors, especially if Coulter has to eventually move from catcher.

Catching? Lucroy and Maldanado are young and will be around for years.

 

Yes we physically have Maldonado but he's isn't exactly setting the world on fire with his offense. The guy is a career .236 hitter with a career OBP under .300. Beside, while they are both on the major league roster right now we don't have much in the minors......nothing if Coulter has to move. Coulter is a guy whom I wouldn't be surprised to see demoted to Helena this year, meaning even if he does stay at catcher and even he does pick it up offensively he probably won't be close to the majors til 2017, right around when we may no longer have Lucroy. You can't look at our current major league roster and say "that's good enough".

 

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to get an additional catching prospect just in case something happens in the next 4 years, especially considering that the Brewers have been about as successful developing catchers as they have been developing pitchers.

[RockCoCougars]

Of the likely candidates for a fire sale, I wouldn't be surprised if Henderson had the most relative value of anyone if he can come back and pick up close to where he left off. Everyone is looking to add bullpen arms down the stretch. All the other likely suspects have one or more of... salary/contract/injury/performance concerns.

[paul253]

I think if the Brewers moved Lohse, Ramirez, Henderson, and Gonzalez/Gorzelany they could both dramatically improve their minor leagues and not set the franchise back too long. They'd also save a ton of money.

[jerichoholicninja]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqilrnrceg1qaoymeo1_500.gif

[brewcrewdue80]

Here's a question that would need some solving. All the suggested Pitching acquiring. Every Upper Level AAA guy we get. What happens to all the Upper AAA guys we have there now?

 

Or put, what happens to the ML guys our upper AAA guys are going to need to take over. All the pitching coming in. Do we set guys back down to AA?

This would fall in regard to these pitchers:

Estrada, Fiers, Narveson, Rogers, Burgos, Thornburg, Hellweg, and progression forward: Nelson, Jungmann, Pena?

 

Am I forgetting anyone?

I can only assume Peralta will remain with the team as a Starter. So that's 10 pitchers I named with 9 Starting Pitcher spots left to fill between AAA and Majors.

 

Then we suggest getting a guy like Lee who's the only one I feel confident in seeing traded for. Everyone else is speculation. But let's add 2-4 more SPs in our upcoming hauls.

 

Where do these guys fit on the team?

I guess what I'm looking at is the team needs to move a few of these AAA guys along in their deals to make room for who they bring in no?

Can we expect say clubs to work on filling up AAA staffs to trade for Burgos/Fiers/Rogers? To cover their Callups without progressing maybe non-ready AA pitchers?

After today's game, I'm wondering if Thornburg is cast as a long reliever from here on out.

It's with this log jam of AAA pitchers that I have to believe Estrada will be traded away. Along with Gallardo. Probably keeping Lohse. Have to have some vet right?

I just pose the question since it requires an answer. Pulling in 2-4 SPs that more than likely grade in to AA-Majors when moved to our organization. Where is the room for them unless guys like Hellweg are committed to the Staff to create the space needed.

[logan82]

Here's a question that would need some solving. All the suggested Pitching acquiring. Every Upper Level AAA guy we get. What happens to all the Upper AAA guys we have there now?

Bullpen.

[Warning Track Power]

I wonder if Mark A. will allow Melvin to be the one to do a "fire sale". Also, the thought of trading for some premium lower level pitching and then allowing the current Brewers pitching coaches to develop them is a bit frightening...

Therein lies the real source of the problem. I definitely want a fire sale for young arms but with the likes of Kranitz coaching them, I foresee untapped potential for some of the young arms we may receive.

[brewmann04]

I believe all the Coaches are on the hot seat!

[paul253]

Or put, what happens to the ML guys our upper AAA guys are going to need to take over. All the pitching coming in. Do we set guys back down to AA?

This would fall in regard to these pitchers:

Estrada, Fiers, Narveson, Rogers, Burgos, Thornburg, Hellweg, and progression forward: Nelson, Jungmann, Pena?

 

Well Rogers is hurt and will probably never pitch for Milwaukee again. So cross him off the list. Jungmann and Pena can stay in Huntsville all year. Hellweg and Thornburg should be starting in Nashville the rest of the year but we all know that at some point they will get called up so they can sit around in the bullpen. When Burgos gets off the DL he can go back to Nashville. Nelson can stay in Nashville. So I think it lines up like this the rest of the year.

 

Huntsville: Jungmann, Pena

Nashville: Thornburg, Hellweg, Nelson, Burgos, Fiers

Milwaukee: Narveson, Estrada, Peralta

 

Next year depends on who stays and who goes. My guess is that it will line up something like this:

 

Milwaukee: Gallardo, Lohse, Estrada, Peralta, Burgos

Milwaukee bullpen: Narveson, Fiers

Nashville: Thornburg, Hellweg, Nelson, Jungmann, Pena

[monty57]

Paul, I think what bcd80 was getting at is that we have a lot of pitchers in the upper minors. If we make some trades to bring in more AA/AAA guys, where will we put everyone?

 

For example, if we trade Ramirez and Gomez and bring back some AAA pitchers, what happens?

 

I think Hellweg and Thornberg will remain in the Nashville rotation, but Kroenke and de la Cruz could easily but moved to the 'pen if we add some exciting pitchers in trade. Fiers could be permanently moved to Milwaukee's pen at any time, and the probable trades of K-Rod and Mike Gonzalez would open up a spots for him and someone else from AAA if we bring in some minor league pitching. If we bring in more than three high-upside AAA SP, then I'll be floating on cloud nine, and won't care what happens to the guys we currently have pitching at AAA.

 

Looking at the state of the farm, as long as we don't trade for outfielders or AAA first basemen, I don't think we'll have a problem finding some spots for talented players.

[Outlander]

I actually think it would be best for Kroenke if they got some better starters at AAA because I think he could be a decent reliever but won't make it in the bigs as a starter.