Perfect trading partner - Dodgers?

[LouisEly]

Looking at the Dodgers roster they appear to make perfect trading partners - their weaknesses/areas of need match up almost perfectly with the Brewers areas of depth and players they are looking to trade, and the Dodgers are one of few teams not concerned with payroll.

 

Dodgers needs:

Infield - SS has been terrible, H-Ram likely goes back to SS when he comes off the DL. Unfortunately Uribe has been decent at 3B but hopefully he can return to 2012-2011 levels, and Ellis is nothing special.

Closer - League has been bad, Belisario is having a season Jose Veras would be proud of, Jansen and Rodriguez have no experience closing.

 

If Weeks can find his stroke it seems to set up for a potential blockbuster trade...

 

Brewers send to Dodgers:

Weeks, A-Ram, K-Rod

 

Dodgers send to Brewers:

Ted Lilly, Juan Uribe, Zach Lee, Matt Magill, Michael Thomas, Duke von Schamann

 

Why take expensive and old(er) players in Lilly (37) and Uribe (33)? Dodgers aren't concerned with payroll but aren't likely to add a lot more salary so this helps balance that part out as well as roster spots, both are free agents after 2013 freeing their salary (and Weeks/A-Ram's) from the Brewers payroll, both are playing well enough at key positions that the Brewers may be able to flip them for a prospect in another deal, and taking their salary in the deal will likely allow the Brewers to take better prospects from the Dodgers. Lilly can also help stabilize the rotation and keep the bullpen's arms from falling off while letting Hellweg/Pena/Thornburg develop in the minors.

 

Even if Weeks doesn't find his stroke, A-Ram and A-Rod would match up very well with the Dodgers needs and could net three of the four aforementioned Dodgers pitching prospects. Go ahead, tell me how terrible this is and how dumb I am...

[brewcrewdue80]

I believe they do but only so long as they can get close enough to believe they are contenders to trade for winning this season/next.

 

Yasiel Puig's time has come for them. This leaves either Crawford/Ethier without a place to call home when Kemp is back.

If they can find some team to take Ethier. I'm thinking they could flip part of that return and maybe Lee in to Aramis Ramirez at 3b for them. How's that lineup? Puig,Kemp,HanRam,Adrian Gonzalez,ARam?

 

Selling Ethier though is likely a hard task.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Knowing our front office they'll trade for a package involving Ethier instead of prospects, as stupid as that may be. I do have hopes that they'll make the right moves and actually be sellers though.

[adambr2]

From what I've learned from this FO, they'll emphasize major league ready over upside. I wish it wasn't true, but it is. I'd be more surprised to see them land a very young and years away from the bigs potential ace, than a package similar to Dave Bush/Zach Jackson/Gabe Gross.

[JohnBriggs12]

Knowing our front office they'll trade for a package involving Ethier instead of prospects, as stupid as that may be. I do have hopes that they'll make the right moves and actually be sellers though.

 

The guys the Brewers would presumably like to sell, Ramirez, Weeks, Hart, all either have fat contracts, injury issues or in Hart's case he's a short term rental on a bum knee. They aren't going to bring back much more than salary relief. Salary relief is great, but what's the Brewers biggest need? Starting pitching. So the Brewer unload the salary so they can make more Suppan, Wolf, Lohse type deals this winter? Ugh.

 

Aoki still has some productive years, is cheap and controllable, and has an internal replacement presumably ready in Schafer. He's the guy to be dangling for decent prospects.

[brewcrewdue80]

JBriggs:

Ramirez/Weeks while pricey. When considering what is out there/ likely made available for trade before the deadline. They are among the best options. Read MLBTR and they list 2b trade options being Weeks and Darwin Barney. And that was it.

ARam, Mark Derosa, Juan Uribe as the 3b options. The teams you can assume would be interested in Weeks/ARam,

Dodgers for ARam and Baltimore/Washington for Weeks I don't think are going to be all that hung up on the salary part.

Hart certainly doesn't have a fat contract when you're only required to pay as a rental. I just gotta see him on the field playing for a couple weeks before I think any team would open talks on him. Who knows when that is?

 

As to perfect trading partners. I truly see the Dodgers shifting their focus to ARam manning 3b with HanRam at SS. Why?

It made sense earlier. After Yasiel Puig's ferocious start for a big league career, I think it's the life they needed to push for Playoffs. I don't know what they are going to do with Ethier, but he's about to find a prolonged seat on the bench with Puig,Kemp,Crawford roaming the OF. Guess he better learn how to play 2b huh?

[LouisEly]

Knowing our front office they'll trade for a package involving Ethier instead of prospects, as stupid as that may be. I do have hopes that they'll make the right moves and actually be sellers though.

I'll take Ethier...

 

... so long as the Dodgers take Weeks and Lohse and give back Lee, Magill, and Thomas.

[Warning Track Power]

I could definitely see a Brewers-Dodgers blockbuster where we deal Ramirez, Weeks & Lohse for Lee, Pederson, Magill & Ethier. While post-2013, Ethier is owed $69m over 5 years and I don't like the idea of the Brewers taking that contract on, the Brewers ditch a ton of backloaded salary in Ramirez/Weeks/Lohse and get good solid prospects out of the deal. The only way I see the Brewers getting all those propsects and unloading those contracts is by taking on Ethier. Pederson is the RF of the future, Ethier fills the spot vacated by an ensuing Aoki deal, Magill and Lee are added to the young arms coming through the system.

 

The Dodgers fill out their lineup and build the back end of the rotation. Kershaw-Greinke-Ryu-Lohse is a winning 1-4 and, as metioned in another thread, the Dodgers lineup becomes a monster: Crawford-Hanley-Gonzalez-Kemp-Aramis-Puig-Ellis-Ellis/Weeks.

 

Would I do it from the Brewers POV? I am not sure. I definitely would as the Dodgers. That team is stacked.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Ethier's contract:

 

2014 - $15.5 million

2015 - $18 million

2016 - $18 million

2017 - $17.5 million

2018 - $17.5 million option with a $2.5 million buyout.

 

I'll pass on taking on that contract. But that's just my opinion.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

How good are Magill and Lee projected to be? What's report on Pederson? Dodgers do seem like the best fit. Eithier is a good hitter but that is one ugly contract.

[TheCrew07]

How good are Magill and Lee projected to be? What's report on Pederson? Dodgers do seem like the best fit. Eithier is a good hitter but that is one ugly contract.

 

Zach Lee:

He has a physical frame and throws his fastball from 90-95 mph, with the projection to add more velocity. He can give his heater sinking or cutting action. Lee's curveball and slider come in with similar 1-to-7 break. His slider has tighter rotation and rates slightly higher than his curve, which is softer and has more depth. He has feel for using his changeup, which could become a plus pitch. He shored up his direction to home plate last season, helping him work both sides of the plate. He's ahead of his years in terms of pitchability and mound presence. Lee's lack of a knockout pitch keeps him from having true frontline potential, but he's a fairly safe bet to become a quality No. 3 starter.

 

Matt Magill:

Magill has added mass to his frame and smoothed out his delivery over the years, adding velocity to his fastball. He can reach 94-95 mph early in games and sits at 91-92. He pounds the strike zone with his fastball, which runs in on righthanders. Magill has a legitimate strikeout pitch in his sharp, late-breaking slider, which he can also throw for a strike in any count. His changeup is rudimentary but does have some fade. He draws raves for his blend of pitching smarts and aggressiveness. Los Angeles added Magill to its 40-man roster to protect him from the Rule 5 draft and will send him to Triple-A Albuquerque in 2013. He has the ceiling of a No. 3 starter and could be ready to pitch in the majors by the end of the season.

 

Joc Pederson:

He attacks balls yet does a good job of keeping his hands back, spraying line drives all over the field. Los Angeles wants him to improve his posture in his swing, as he tends to dip his head, but the ball jumps off his bat. He does a good job of imparting backspin, leading the Dodgers to believe his power has a chance to keep emerging as he gets older, as it did with Andre Ethier. Pederson isn't a blazer, but he has the athleticism and speed to play center field. His average arm gives him a chance to play in right field as well. His tireless work ethic and grinder mentality draw praise.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

Those scouting reports make me not want to trade for Magill and Lee. If they at best project to be #3's then forget about it. The Brewers have an array of #3's. What this team badly needs is #1's and #2's. The only way to get a #1 is to draft one or trade away an elite player. A combo trade of Hart and Ramirez should be enough to bring a #1 and #2.

[TURBO]

I'm not sure why we need more #3 type pitchers. If that is the ceiling of the guys above, count me out.

[brewcrewdue80]

This is MLB's prospect writeup on Lee:

The Dodgers made a huge splash by signing Lee away from quarterbacking at LSU and the right-hander has been moving quickly since. Lee reached Double-A in 2012 and will pitch the 2013 season at age 21. He has four pitches that have the chance to be Major League average or better and he can throw all of them for strikes. He’ll sit in the 92-93 mph range with good movement to his fastball. He throws two breaking balls, a hard slider and a softer curve, and he has a very good feel for a sinking changeup. He can work both sides of the plate and doesn’t hurt himself with walks.

 

I understand 3s don't sound flashy because our 3s have all been failing.

Lee is one who is succeeding and it's likely due to having command of all his pitches.

I guess the question is how many 1s exist in MLB today? 20? 30? Okay, maybe 40. Lee sounds like the type of SP that would be a workhorse as a 3. If he has command of his pitches, then there's a reason to believe he can go 7innings maybe 8 quite often. Even if it's at 2-3ERs that is still better than the Brewers are getting. Lee doesn't sound like the type of pitcher we hope becomes a 3. It sounds like he is a 3 and he'd be a 2 if he had a strikeout pitch. That's not what we have going on with all our 3s. And I'll take as many 3s we can accumulate. 3s are better than 4s/5s no? If we build a staff of 2/3/3/3/3 that's better imo than 1.5lol/3/4/4/5.5

It's like Arizona's staff. Nobody really dominates but they also don't look lost out there. I'd be happy with Lee as a return in a trade.

[torts]

if were gunna take on an either contract like that, why not just extend Cory Hart?

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

This is MLB's prospect writeup on Lee:

The Dodgers made a huge splash by signing Lee away from quarterbacking at LSU and the right-hander has been moving quickly since. Lee reached Double-A in 2012 and will pitch the 2013 season at age 21. He has four pitches that have the chance to be Major League average or better and he can throw all of them for strikes. He’ll sit in the 92-93 mph range with good movement to his fastball. He throws two breaking balls, a hard slider and a softer curve, and he has a very good feel for a sinking changeup. He can work both sides of the plate and doesn’t hurt himself with walks.

 

I understand 3s don't sound flashy because our 3s have all been failing.

Lee is one who is succeeding and it's likely due to having command of all his pitches.

I guess the question is how many 1s exist in MLB today? 20? 30? Okay, maybe 40. Lee sounds like the type of SP that would be a workhorse as a 3. If he has command of his pitches, then there's a reason to believe he can go 7innings maybe 8 quite often. Even if it's at 2-3ERs that is still better than the Brewers are getting. Lee doesn't sound like the type of pitcher we hope becomes a 3. It sounds like he is a 3 and he'd be a 2 if he had a strikeout pitch. That's not what we have going on with all our 3s. And I'll take as many 3s we can accumulate. 3s are better than 4s/5s no? If we build a staff of 2/3/3/3/3 that's better imo than 1.5lol/3/4/4/5.5

It's like Arizona's staff. Nobody really dominates but they also don't look lost out there. I'd be happy with Lee as a return in a trade.

 

That's true man. We're hoping that our prospects can at least be 3's. Lee sounds like he would be a 3 right away.

[brewcrewdue80]

Based on Magill's numbers this season is he really someone to target? He had a 6BBs/9 in AAA and in 27.2IP in 6GS for LAD he has 28BBs and given up 6HRs!

That smells like disaster coming to Miller Park.

 

This idea probably gets bashed but, if looking to make a deal there's likely some give and take when you deal away high priced veterans.

So, could Dee Gordon, Zach Lee, plus work from their perspective and for us for Weeks/ARam? I guess the Dodgers worked with Gordon recently fielding grounders at 2b. You then have Gordon to either take over at 2b if he can win the job from Gennett or he plays out as a utility 2b/SS backup. Melvin I recall had a remark about Gordon being a special player in the offseason? But his production has been awful for LA and could no longer be in the future plans for LA. They'd just move HanRam to SS with his contract and play Aramis at 3b for his contract. You would think Seager's progression nets him in the 2015 callup and they could platoon with ARam as his swan song. And likely LAD could afford a nice 1yr deal beyond to remain a Platoon/Bench bat for them if ARam remains a solid bat at that age.

Oh, and I just looked at it but HanRam is done after 2014....so I don't know anymore what they do for SS. Still leave this up for now.

[TheCrew07]

First. MLB.com draft day scouting reports are basically worthless in the context of this discussion. MLB has a vested interest in making fans feel good about every single draft pick, which is why all of the scouting reports tend to be so overwhelming positive. Also, there's no progression of scouting reports like you can get from better sources, such as Baseball America. I do read MLB draft day reports, but beyond draft day those reports hold little long-term value.

 

As far as Zach Lee, the fact that Lee is "a fairly safe bet to become a quality 3" means that he has a high floor, it doesn't mean he has a low ceiling. The only thing holding him back is that he doesn't have a strike out pitch, that's why he's getting the "3" label. I don't think developing plus pitches is all that easy, but he already tops out at 95 and has room to develop more velocity, he'd be a good trade target as he does have #2 upside if he can find a strike out pitch, in fact more velocity might be enough to give him that edge.

 

I do worry about any pitcher's ability to miss bats so I have my concerns, much like I do when discussing our own pitching prospects like Jungmann and Hall, I'm a big believer in K rate as a indicator of future success.

[monty57]

Plus, we're looking at what we'd get for Ramirez, who has a bum knee and is owed around $25MM for the next 1.5 seasons, and Weeks, who basically has negative value in trade. If we could end up with Zach Lee plus some other decent young talent for Ramirez and Weeks, I'd be okay with that.

 

I hope the reports that Ramirez will be highly sought after this trade deadline are true, but I'm in the "believe it when I see it" camp on that one.

[ebmackenzie]

KRod (after he gets to 300 with us) and ARamirez + 10 million dollars to LAD for Corey Seager, Yimi Garcia, and Angel Sanchez. Lower guys not on the 40 man roster is key for Melvin and this offers some outs for the Dodgers to justify the deal (Seager is far off and not a pitcher, Angel is up and down, and Yimi is a reliever that is farther off than KRod). Got to give the Dodgers a reason to do the deal and if I am LA, I cannot justify moving ZLee--this is the base deal as some will say it is too much(Brewer fans)/others not enough (Dodger fans).

[Roderick]

Plus, we're looking at what we'd get for Ramirez, who has a bum knee and is owed around $25MM for the next 1.5 seasons, and Weeks, who basically has negative value in trade. If we could end up with Zach Lee plus some other decent young talent for Ramirez and Weeks, I'd be okay with that.

 

I hope the reports that Ramirez will be highly sought after this trade deadline are true, but I'm in the "believe it when I see it" camp on that one.

 

I agree with you. If we get anything to clear ARam and Weeks that would be doing pretty good in my book. It just seems to me the Brewers shouldn't be expecting quite the return as a few posts are thinking we should get.

 

If the Brewers pulled off a trade they would have to find a 3B for 2014, so may turn around and spend all that money on a free agent 3B (don't know who is avail) or end up playing Francisco or Green. But I still like that scenario better than the current going into 2014 as we won't have the starting pitching to contend anyways.

[brewcrewdue80]

Dodgers are buyers for sure. so yes they are trading partners. One that is seeking control of a 3b.

 

They are heavy on acquiring Nolasco according to MLBTR.

They also are looking for a solution to have team controlled at 3b.

So trading ARam who the Brewers are shopping to trade would be ideal in both instances.

 

Top 4 Dodgers Prospects are Zach Lee, Joc Pederson, Corey Seager, and Chris Reed. After them it doesn't sound as high upside

They do have Jose Valentine's son in their minors which would be nostalgic to attain as a 2nd or 3rd player in trade. The other player to watch is for Ross Stripling who's looking like one of those rare out of college pitchers that truly is moving up the Minors ladder quickly.

 

Could the team acquire Pederson creating the ability to move Gomez/Aoki? I'm not really sold on Lee's upside and I'd rather take on a guy like Pederson who allows the ability to trade Aoki/Gomez to other teams for pitchers with higher upside.

 

Any other thoughs on their minors for ARam?

[PrinceFielderx1]

What is Ramirez's value currently with a bad leg. Isn't he playing injured?

[brewcrewdue80]

Well PFX. ARam has 2years remaining after this season. Depending how the Dodgers view him, wanting a guy longer than just this season he is one of the best and fitting options. It would be different if he is a rental for this season only but you figure rest/surgery repairs it for next season the team that wants him is in business. Dodgers are looking to buy a championship today/tomorrow and who knows for how long?

Like I said if we could take Pederson/Stripling off them I'd be very pleased.

[chadomac]

It sure would be nice if he could get going again at the plate to help increase his value right now. It doesn't seem like there's any way we're going to unload him without eating a lot of that contract. Hope I'm wrong.