2013-06-03 Athletics (Milone) at Brewers (Estrada), 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 10-2]

[The stache]

Couldn't have said it better Stache. When your team is on pace to lose 100 games most of the comments will be negative and critical.....why would that be at all surprising? lol

 

I'm the friendliest, most laid back person you will ever meet. I am not an overly negative person, not by a long shot. But when the team is playing at a historically bad level as we are now, like any other Brewer fan attending the game, or watching at a sports bar, I'm going to blow off steam. I'm here to commiserate with my fellow Brewer fans when they're not playing well in much the same way that I'm here to cheer when they do play well. It doesn't mean I don't love the team, or that I'm somehow not hoping they'll get better. I never give up. I've watched this team through a lot of bad years, and they'll be my team until I bloody well die.

 

But I don't need somebody who's posting the same kind of content they're bemoaning coming in here, looking down their nose at us, and assuming some "holier than thou" attitude. If you want to create a thread where everything is rainbows and unicorns, where nary a negative word is said, go ahead, and best of luck to you. But don't gripe about how "bad" things have gotten when a quick search of your post history exposes that you display the exact same type of behavior.

[The stache]

LOL, look at Bernie, he's tapping his feet, waiting for somebody to hit a ball into the cheap seats.

[The stache]

RRR and Melvin both said that Weeks and Scooter will mostly be a platoon.....not a strict platoon but mostly....whatever that means...

 

I sometimes think we need a secret decoder ring to understand what Ron is saying.

 

Come on Jean, pop one out of the park!

[PrinceFielderx1]

Stache,

 

I might have you beat in the most laid back friendliest person debate.

[TooLiveBrew]

Down 10-2, and Braun is bringing hustle like that. Awesome to see the face of your franchise putting in a shift like that.

[xisxisxis]

I sometimes think we need a secret decoder ring to understand what Ron is saying.

 

Nah we don't need something that complicated. An Idiot to English Dictionary should do.

 

 

Down 10-2, and Braun is bringing hustle like that. Awesome to see the face of your franchise putting in a shift like that.

 

I don't think we need to worry about the face, but the arms, legs, elbows, shoulders, kneecaps, feet, hands, and every other part of the teams anatomy is another case.

[The stache]

Down 10-2, and Braun is bringing hustle like that. Awesome to see the face of your franchise putting in a shift like that.

 

Agreed. I never question Ryan's effort. He's been jumping up over walls to rob home runs, diving for line drives. He always gives his all.

[brewcrewdue80]

Barring a big comeback in this game...

 

Oakland Athletics 33-24

Milwaukee Brewers 21-35

 

Team payroll

 

Oakland Athletics $60,372,500

Milwaukee Brewers $88,837,366

They've also been a darn good franchise over the past decade+. They averaged 88 wins/season from 1999-2012. All while following the talent cycling franchise-building model that many on this site have been calling for. Sure, they've had stretches where they haven't contended -- and the fans that view/ed 'Moneyball' as some kind of ivory-tower nonsense make sure to crow loudly -- but they don't panic, they don't change the approach, and before too much longer a new run of contention arrives.

 

Yup, I know they've been a very good team. I watch Moneyball every couple of weeks. Just making the point that success and the amount of money spent are not at all directly proportional. We've spent over $27 million more than the A's this year, and they're clearly the better team.

 

The reason the A's have remained competitive without a lot of money is that they can draft and develop good players. And when those players move on, they find other pieces that fit their roster well.

 

I guess it just really bothers me seeing teams with far lesser resources doing so much better than we are, only because they are better managed (from a financial and in-game perspective).

 

I just looked up the A's draft history. It's Barren of anyone meaningful. Since 2007 AJ Griffin with a 2.8WAR is their best player drafted. Brewers at least drafted Lucroy,Lawrie,Odorizzi,Schafer to their credit since then.

2006 was a good year for the A's with Trevor Cahill and Andrew Miller and turned them in to Josh Reddick/Jarrod Parker,Colin Cowgill, and Ryan Cook.

[The stache]

I sometimes think we need a secret decoder ring to understand what Ron is saying.

 

Nah we don't need something that complicated. An Idiot to English Dictionary should do.

 

 

Down 10-2, and Braun is bringing hustle like that. Awesome to see the face of your franchise putting in a shift like that.

 

I don't think we need to worry about the face, but the arms, legs, elbows, shoulders, kneecaps, feet, hands, and every other part of the teams anatomy is another case.

 

http://williamgregory.net/images/pointing_up_lol.gif

[TheCrew07]

The A's have done much better through trades and International signings than they have through the draft. They were of the first organizations to focus more on floor (college players) than ceiling and it killed their farm system for quite a while. Fairly similar to the Twins and Padres, if you look at the sheer number of picks many of the organizations have wasted in the first round it's a sobering number.

 

Unfortunately most of the teams that have drafted and signed well internationally are within our division, at least over the last 4-5 years anyway. Wilken righted the Cubs' ship right away and the Cards, Reds, and Pirates were already on a good path... meanwhile the Brewers haven't done much other than Segura, who's great, but offense hasn't been our issue. Hopefully Pena can keep it going and the Greinke trade will pay off again, I always felt Pena had the higher ceiling between him and Hellweg, but Hellweg has the higher floor.

[The stache]

I just looked up the A's draft history. It's Barren of anyone meaningful. Since 2007 AJ Griffin with a 2.8WAR is their best player drafted. Brewers at least drafted Lucroy,Lawrie,Odorizzi,Schafer to their credit since then.

2006 was a good year for the A's with Trevor Cahill and Andrew Miller and turned them in to Josh Reddick/Jarrod Parker,Colin Cowgill, and Ryan Cook.

 

You're right. I'm sorry, I should have been more specific. I was referring to the Moneyball era A's, when they drafted and brought up Eric Chavez, Mark Mulder, Barry Zito, Rich Harden, etc.

[jjkoestler]

Please refrain from making personal attacks about other members. This season is tough enough already.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yup, I know they've been a very good team. I watch Moneyball every couple of weeks. Just making the point that success and the amount of money spent are not at all directly proportional. We've spent over $27 million more than the A's this year, and they're clearly the better team.

 

The reason the A's have remained competitive without a lot of money is that they can draft and develop good players. And when those players move on, they find other pieces that fit their roster well.

 

I guess it just really bothers me seeing teams with far lesser resources doing so much better than we are, only because they are better managed (from a financial and in-game perspective).

Yeah -- my post was agreeing with yours.

[The stache]

I always felt Pena had the higher ceiling between him and Hellweg, but Hellweg has the higher floor.

 

I'd hope that Hellweg had the higher ceiling, otherwise at 6'9", he's going to be bumping his head a lot.

[Bombers]

I like how Rickie gave Scooter a pat on the back after his ground out.

 

I will be the first to admit that Rickie has completely fallen off but he was and still is a class act. He stays out of trouble, works hard, does the right things but just doesn't turn it into positive production on the field. I hope he keeps up the same positive attitude even when Scooter begins to take some starts.

[brewcrewdue80]

The A's have done much better through trades and International signings than they have through the draft. They were of the first organizations to focus more on floor (college players) than ceiling and it killed their farm system for quite a while. Fairly similar to the Twins and Padres, if you look at the sheer number of picks many of the organizations have wasted in the first round it's a sobering number.

 

This is what I was leading towards to their success. Taking those Pitchers they drafted and or acquired in trade and recycling them rather quickly for pitching or other prospects down the road.

 

Stache, no worries. I didn't go back farther in comparison to drafts as we all know we did well prior to 2006 and that nullifies any success Oakland had when suggesting they are beating us through better drafting.

 

The one thing the bother me is you go back in Brewers Drafts and 2005 the Brewers drafted:

Brantley 5th rd. Jemile Weeks 5th rd. Andrew Bailey 16th rd. Zach Braddock 18th rd. Jake Arrieta 26th rd.

Lorenzo Cain in 2004 17th rd. Future ML Players in later round picks. And at least identified some potential players in the draft that didn't sign in Weeks/Bailey/Arrieta. Where's that been since?

[hawing]

So I think we can safely figure that the Brewers are the first team to have home runs reviewed into triples in consecutive games. Has a long hit like that ever been scaled back to a triple before Sunday? I'd more expect a possible home run to be ruled either a ground-rule double or a foul/strike.

[xisxisxis]

Where's that been since?

 

As TheCrew pointed out (in the Why are we so bad at developing pitchers? Thread IIRC) the Brewers scouting has been raided heavily since Jack Z left to be GM of the Mariners in the Fall of 2008. While Z may have missed on some early rounders, overall, his people did a much better job of identifying talent later in the draft than Seid and Co. While Jack had problems early on (with the round 2 kryptonite), the drafting since he left has been pretty much a failure up and down the board....

[The stache]

The A's have done much better through trades and International signings than they have through the draft. They were of the first organizations to focus more on floor (college players) than ceiling and it killed their farm system for quite a while. Fairly similar to the Twins and Padres, if you look at the sheer number of picks many of the organizations have wasted in the first round it's a sobering number.

 

This is what I was leading towards to their success. Taking those Pitchers they drafted and or acquired in trade and recycling them rather quickly for pitching or other prospects down the road.

 

Stache, no worries. I didn't go back farther in comparison to drafts as we all know we did well prior to 2006 and that nullifies any success Oakland had when suggesting they are beating us through better drafting.

 

The one thing the bother me is you go back in Brewers Drafts and 2005 the Brewers drafted:

Brantley 5th rd. Jemile Weeks 5th rd. Andrew Bailey 16th rd. Zach Braddock 18th rd. Jake Arrieta 26th rd.

Lorenzo Cain in 2004 17th rd. Future ML Players in later round picks. And at least identified some potential players in the draft that didn't sign in Weeks/Bailey/Arrieta. Where's that been since?

 

Brantley seems to me at least to be a bit overlooked. He's quietly turned into a nice player. A guy that can play darned fine defense, and hit around .300. I'd take him on the Brewers right now, even if he'd be coming off the bench. His numbers aren't sexy, but he's very good in the clutch (.381 with RISP in 2013, .301 for his career in 401 AB's).

[owbc]

Lets look on the positive side, at least hardly anyone was there to see that atrocious game. The crowd of 21,023 was the smallest of the season--and get this crazy fact--the smallest Brewers crowd at Miller Park since 2007.

[Outlander]

I was at the game last night with my family and it was weird, didn't even seem like 20,000, more like a weeknight at county stadium with less enthusiasm. Almost felt like I was watching one of those games at Miller Park that they sometimes have after the Brewers play because there was hardly any crowd noise. At least the lines were short everywhere we went.

[LouisEly]

Where's that been since?

 

As TheCrew pointed out (in the Why are we so bad at developing pitchers? Thread IIRC) the Brewers scouting has been raided heavily since Jack Z left to be GM of the Mariners in the Fall of 2008. While Z may have missed on some early rounders, overall, his people did a much better job of identifying talent later in the draft than Seid and Co. While Jack had problems early on (with the round 2 kryptonite), the drafting since he left has been pretty much a failure up and down the board....

Dave, I will disagree with you on this. Five players rom Seid's 2009 draft have already made the majors (Fiers, Kh. Davis, Burgos, Prince, and now Gennett; could have been six if Lamontagne had not gotten hurt). One from 2010 has already made the majors (Thornburg), two more are knocking on the door (Morris, Nelson), and a fourth was traded for a major-leaguer (Keeling). None of them first-round picks. Jack Z's 2005 draft was a once-in-a-generation draft - those years just don't happen for any team, and is offset by how poor his 2006 draft was.

[brewcrewdue80]

Ely, pointing out Fiers/Davis/Prince/Thornburg as being successful picks when they have little to no real impact thus far for the team. Fiers had a seemingly flukish run that happens from time to time. I hope he finds whatever magic he had during that run again within the next season. Otherwise really, that's a failed pick, maybe moreso because that flash in the pan run he had gave such false hope the team's plans included him as the future rather than adjust to him being nothing more than mop up worker.

Burgos wasn't really ready either but only called upon due to injuries. Prince and Davis were fillins and haven't gotten enough time to consider successful draftees. Thornburg a 3rd rounder is a wild card. But again brief and returned stint to AAA.

Morris and Nelson aren't talked about in major publications as being really any kind of impact Major League Players. When one of the picks accrues I don't know say higher than 4WAR for their Career I think then we can talk about being a successful drafted player.

 

No doubt though Keeling netting Juan Francisco is a type of pick that I'd have to deem as successful since it landed a ML player. And that was as a RP.