Scooter Gennett gets called up to MLB

[DHonks]

3and2fastball, it's possible you're right. But what makes you think he'll learn to walk in the majors when he didn't in the minors?

[brewcrewdue80]

Looking at the Boxscore today and yesterday, that is 9PA and 22pitches thrown to Gennett.

 

That is very Yuni-like and I'm a little concerned he's going up there swinging at every pitch. Now, sure being new and not thought of highly power-wise, pitchers likely are just throwing strikes letting him beat them with his bat.

I'd just like to see him take a few pitches too, have some longer PAs.

 

Anyone paying attention to his ABs, would you say he's swinging at good pitches to swing at? Or is he just swinging at anything and happens to make contact?

 

This would fall in line with the concerns of Scooter taking BBs. If he's not seeing 4pitches or more from time to time in his ABs then clearly, he will never give the pitcher an opportunity to walk him.

 

This can be acceptible if he's still batting above .280 but clearly it makes him strictly a #7/8 hitter on the team. And that's fine as someone has to bat 7th/8th it just means you are left with 1 more spotty offensive player then for your lineup going forward. leaving little wiggle room in roster management.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Looking at the Boxscore today and yesterday, that is 9PA and 22pitches thrown to Gennett.

 

That is very Yuni-like and I'm a little concerned he's going up there swinging at every pitch. Now, sure being new and not thought of highly power-wise, pitchers likely are just throwing strikes letting him beat them with his bat.

I'd just like to see him take a few pitches too, have some longer PAs.

 

Anyone paying attention to his ABs, would you say he's swinging at good pitches to swing at? Or is he just swinging at anything and happens to make contact?

 

This would fall in line with the concerns of Scooter taking BBs. If he's not seeing 4pitches or more from time to time in his ABs then clearly, he will never give the pitcher an opportunity to walk him.

 

This can be acceptible if he's still batting above .280 but clearly it makes him strictly a #7/8 hitter on the team. And that's fine as someone has to bat 7th/8th it just means you are left with 1 more spotty offensive player then for your lineup going forward. leaving little wiggle room in roster management.

 

This is definitely accurate. He needs to learn to work the count more if he ever wants to hit at the top of the lineup. If he doesn't become that type of hitter, then he's really not that useful. He's nothing special defensively either. It's obviously still early on, but it would be more encouraging to see him have better at-bats.

[3and2Fastball]

3and2fastball, it's possible you're right. But what makes you think he'll learn to walk in the majors when he didn't in the minors?

 

It isn't really a logical conclusion based on past results, more of a gut instinct. I think he's a smart player and as he grows into a veteran he may discover additional ways to be valuable. I think his pitch selection is pretty good, he doesn't seem to swing at a ton of pitches outside the zone (right now MLB pitchers are just challenging him and not trying to get him to chase). Also his walk rate this year in AAA was up a little this season as opposed to previous years, I'm hoping that will be a developing trend

[logan82]

Unless he develops some power they will just throw it down the pipe and say " here it is, hit it." The worst that can happen is a single.

[SoupTown]

Maybe we can catch a break and end up with hard working guy who improves as he moves up... sort of like Hart did. After 27 at bats his .444 slugging is a decent start. And, of course, a guy (especially a small guy) will be a lot stronger at age 25 to 27, than his 21-24.

[Bombers]

Unless he develops some power they will just throw it down the pipe and say " here it is, hit it." The worst that can happen is a single.

Is that what they did with Gumby? He went like 3 years between homeruns. He hit a HR in 87 and then hit his next in 1990.

 

So with him they must have said "ah screw it he can't beat us - it will only be a single." he batted around .275 / .330 / .336 over those years. Was he useless? I was young so I can't say for certain but I have never heard anyone say - Gumby sucked all he could do was hit singles.

 

Now if Gennett is batting .200 and only hitting singles, then yes that will be pretty useless.

[jerichoholicninja]

So with him they must have said "ah screw it he can't beat us - it will only be a single." he batted around .275 / .330 / .336 over those years. Was he useless? I was young so I can't say for certain but I have never heard anyone say - Gumby sucked all he could do was hit singles.

 

I was pretty young too but that was a different era. Offense was a lot lower and people didn't know that there were still two numbers at the end of a slash line.

[gregmag]

I was around for Gantner's career, and yes, a lot of us (at least the nascent Sabermetrics crowd) were saying that Gantner was useless starting in the mid-80s. OPS+ is a good stat for backing up jerichoholicninja's point above. Gantner was a slightly below-average MLB hitter in his late 20s, which is just fine for a middle infielder. He peaked at 30. After that he was consistently well below average, at the same time his defensive range was declining. He wasn't the worst player in the world, but it's hard to see how he helped the team over the last half of his career. The organization was very complacent then, and he was just dead weight that they kept around.

 

As for Scooter, right now a Gantner-like career looks like his extreme upside to me. I greatly respect 3and2's admission that his optimism is based more on instinct than on projection, and of course there's nothing wrong with pressing an instinctive view. But right now Scooter's a guy who has barely hit .300 in the minors, who has carried an OBP at best 45 points above his BA, who has negligible power and speed, and who isn't a defensive standout at his only position. He's going to have to have a developmental leap if he's going to be any kind of MLB player.

[endaround]

Scooter looks to have Ganter's bat and Week's defense. If he is a starter on your team he'll always be one you're looking to replace.

[logan82]

Maybe we can catch a break and end up with hard working guy who improves as he moves up... sort of like Hart did. After 27 at bats his .444 slugging is a decent start. And, of course, a guy (especially a small guy) will be a lot stronger at age 25 to 27, than his 21-24.

Hart was a good hitter all through the minors. An all star at every level. He was always .800+OPS except his first year. Hart was just overshadowed by Weeks, Fielder and Hardy.

[TURBO]

Scooter has been a good hitter all through the minors too.

 

This is where someone throws up his stat lines and compares him to Hart, Prince, etc trying prove me wrong.

 

[trwi7]

Scooter has been a good hitter all through the minors too.

 

This is where someone throws up his stat lines and compares him to Hart, Prince, etc trying prove me wrong.

 

 

No he hasn't.

 

A - .354/.463/.817

A+ - .334/.406/.740

AA - .330/.385/.715

AAA - .342/.376/.719

[TURBO]

Yes he has.

 

I think he has been a good hitter throughout his Minor League career. Of course, I believe that batting average does have some merit, even though there are those here who do not.

 

Batting Average

 

2010 - .309

2011 - .300

2012 - .293

2013 - .297

 

The way some here talk, the kid can't hit anything but singles:

 

2B

 

2010 - 39

2011 - 20

2012 - 30

2013 - 7

 

HR

 

2010 - 9

2011 - 9

2012 - 5

2013 - 1

 

You can crunch numbers any way you want, but it all comes down to opinion. The Brewers organization thinks he can hit, I agree.

[SoupTown]

I followed Hart closely through the minors. Hart was actually dissed quite a bit over his minor leauge career by most the old timers on this board (even going back to the ESPN days if I recall correctly). The point was Hart's number improved as he advanced each level. He did not hit the A+ wall, or the AA wall, or the MLB wall (and become a AAAA player). His stats, his presence, improved at he rose each level.

 

Now that Gennett is a MLB player - at a decently young age - maybe he can actually IMPROVE. Maybe he will not be the 'nothing' that, like many here tabbed Hart to be. Mabye Scooter will be a 'something useful'. At least paying 400k a year for a couple years is not a huge investment. Sorry, the management did not consider the same 'bet' with Morris or even Halton.

[joepepsi]

If Scooter hits for upper 200 batting average and an OPS over .700 he'll be a good player for the Brewers. Seems like he could do that at the major league level. Probelm is, Rickie has been hitting over .400 with an OPS over 1.200 since Scooter arrived. There was no need to call him up.

 

They should go back to playing Rickie nearly everyday and hope they can trade him by the deadline.

[Funketown]

 

I think he has been a good hitter throughout his Minor League career. Of course, I believe that batting average does have some merit, even though there are those here who do not.

 

You can crunch numbers any way you want, but it all comes down to opinion. The Brewers organization thinks he can hit, I agree.

 

wRC+ by year:

 

2011 (A+): 104

2012 (AA): 99

2013 (AAA): 88

 

It's not really a matter of opinion, he has pretty much been an average hitter in the minor leagues. Yeah, he hits for a high average, but he has almost no power and draws very few walks. His MiLB production is nowhere near Hart's:

 

Hart (A+, age 20): .288/.356/.573/.928 --- .300/.334/.406/.740 (A+, age 21) Gennett

Hart (AA, age 20-21): .296/.340/.450/.790 --- .293/.330/.385/.714 (AA, age 22) Gennett

Hart (AAA, age 22-24): .296/.363/.516/.879 --- .297/.342/.376/.719 (AAA, age 23) Gennett

[The stache]

Name this player:

 

A former second baseman for the Milwaukee Brewers (multiple seasons)

 

His average slash line while in Milwaukee: .286 AVG/.349 OBP/.389 SLG/.738 OPS

His average per 162 games while a Brewer: 172 hits, 26 doubles, 8 triples, 7 home runs, 51 RBI, 18 stolen bases, 11 caught stealing. 43 walks, 43 strike outs.

 

Would we be happy with this kind of production from Scooter Gennett? I think these numbers are very attainable for Ryan.

[TooLiveBrew]

Would we be happy with this kind of production from Scooter Gennett?

Happy for it from Scooter? Yes. Happy for it from our starting second baseman? No. (at least not with Gennett's defense)

[logan82]

Name this player:

 

A former second baseman for the Milwaukee Brewers (multiple seasons)

 

His average slash line while in Milwaukee: .286 AVG/.349 OBP/.389 SLG/.738 OPS

His average per 162 games while a Brewer: 172 hits, 26 doubles, 8 triples, 7 home runs, 51 RBI, 18 stolen bases, 11 caught stealing. 43 walks, 43 strike outs.

 

Would we be happy with this kind of production from Scooter Gennett? I think these numbers are very attainable for Ryan.

That is a better line than scooter's MiLB line so, no, I don't think that is attainable for him.

[TheCrew07]

When Scooter was 20 I was pretty sure he'd hit double digit HRs. However as he's advanced neither the power or patience has advanced with him. I'm not going to say he won't have any kind of MLB career, but unless he starts becoming a more well rounded player at the plate he simply provides very little upside.

 

Could he become better? Sure. Even little dudes can get in the weight room and become more well rounded players, the problem is that baseball has been very slow to push athletic development. Most guys are just making due with their naturally given gifts.

 

Pedroia is one of those little guys whom people point to as someone whom players of similar build should aspire to be. However what's often overlooked is that he's worked his butt off to get to where he is.

 

The Brewers have been very slow to adopt an athletic development program, historically they've pushed winter ball and other meaningless pursuits which don't help our prospects become better athletes and more productive players.

 

The bench press is pretty meaningless from a sport standpoint, and yes I say that even as a former football coach. The point here is that while not every healthy male has the potential to bench 500lbs, every healthy male can bench press 300lbs if they are willing to work at it. Likewise not every baseball player is going to hit 50 HRs, but everyone could hit 15 if they worked on developing their power.

 

Athletic weightlifting is not anything like power lifting or body building, it doesn't make the body tight and limit athleticism. Athletic lifting is about range of motion, core strength, and training the body to be more explosive. Athletes will become more flexible, faster, jump higher, throw harder, hit baseballs farther, and so on. Yes they will add muscle but they will do it in such way that enhances their athleticism rather than limiting it and they will also generally be more resistant to muscle injuries such as strains/pulls.

 

So does Gennett have a chance to ascend? Sure, but he's going to have to change to make that happen. He's young enough the door isn't closed, but there's more to offense than being a .280-.300 hitter, and he doesn't enhance his value at all with average defense.

[The stache]

In 28 games since being called up to the Majors, Scooter Gennett's stats:

 

.284 AVG 19 hits in 67 ABs 2 doubles, 2 triples, 4 home runs. 9 runs, 11 RBI. Slash line of .324/.552/.876.

 

Now, I don't expect Scooter's SLG to stay where it is, but is it possible that a lot of people sold Scooter's potential a little short?

 

The guy is never going to be a 30 home run hitter. He might never hit 20. But the "Scooter can't hit", or "Scooter is a bad hitter" posts made earlier. Have some of you maybe changed your minds a little bit?

 

That first home run he hit to the upper deck at the Ballpark in Arlington was a bomb. He's got the extra base pop. He also showed good quickness defensively in tonight's game.

[The stache]

When Scooter was 20 I was pretty sure he'd hit double digit HRs. However as he's advanced neither the power or patience has advanced with him.

 

He's got 4 homers in 67 at bats now. He won't get to double digits because he won't get enough at bats. But I think your initial instincts were right. I think he could definitely hit 10 + home runs a season.

[gregmag]

One game doesn't wipe out years of discouraging evidence. But. I know Scooter's minor league stats don't give any reason to believe he'll be a good major league hitter. I also know that young hitters develop and that power is often the last skill to take hold. The good thing for this argument is that we'll get to see, because Rickie's hurt and Scooter's going to play. I'm still not a believer, but I'd love for him to take off, and he's off to a good start.

[JohnBriggs12]

"Years of discouraging evidence"??? Really? Those 52 extra base hits he had for the T-Rats as a 20 year old in 2010 discouraging? He's a .297 lifetime minor league hitter with a career slugging percentage of .409. Not bad numbers at all for a middle infielder especially considering he was on the younger side for the levels he's been at. His defense has improved every year. This year he's made just 6 errors in 95 games between AAA and the majors. He just turned 23.

 

What doesn't show in his stat lines is his stellar performance in the 2011 Arizona Fall League at the age of 21. Small sample (90 AB's) but against better prospects he hit .411/.470/.556. He's never going to be a huge HR hitter but he does generate enough bat speed to collect a significant number of extra base hits.

 

There's nothing wrong with a stat line of .275/.335/.400 for a 2B. I really think he can do that right now. Assuming some improvement over time, he's got a chance to be a solid major league player.