Scooter Gennett gets called up to MLB

[Fear The Chorizo]

the fact that people have to dig through stats to find reasons Scooter isn't as productive as Chase Utley as a LH hitting 2B should pretty much tell you he's having a fantastic season.

 

having a RH hitting utility IF that is better defensively than Weeks (and much cheaper) would be ideal, yes...but that can likely happen over this offseason. Heck, Weeks might get his option declined, find limited offers on the open market, and return to Milwaukee in the role he currently has for a smaller salary.

[homer]

Both Weeks and Gennett are having good seasons.

[502 to Right]

Platoons are fine, we just need to find a right hand hitting 2B who can play multiple positions

 

The Brewers are stuck with Rickie Weeks this year but going forward it should not be difficult to find a decent 2B/3B right handed bat who can hit lefties well. Bonus points if that person can also play SS in a pinch.

 

Personally, I'd rather have a strict platoon than to force Gennett into hitting against lefties and doing it poorly.

 

Embrace the platoon.

[brewcrewdue80]

Scooter Gennett is good at hitting.

 

I keep saying it over and over, but you just can't take his LHP stats seriously until he's actually going against Starting LHP. Not Left Handed Specialists designed to get a LH Batter out like Gennett. His numbers will be better I'd bet at least .650OPS vs LH pitching if he went vs LH Starters and actually got to face them more than 1 time in a game. Batters historically do better the 2nd time and 3rd time around facing starters. So all the haters of Gennett vs LHP keep throwing your numbers of what he's done thus far vs. LHP and ignore that fact.

[gregmag]

Scooter Gennett is good at hitting.

 

I keep saying it over and over, but you just can't take his LHP stats seriously until he's actually going against Starting LHP. Not Left Handed Specialists designed to get a LH Batter out like Gennett. His numbers will be better I'd bet at least .650OPS vs LH pitching if he went vs LH Starters and actually got to face them more than 1 time in a game. Batters historically do better the 2nd time and 3rd time around facing starters. So all the haters of Gennett vs LHP keep throwing your numbers of what he's done thus far vs. LHP and ignore that fact.

What fact? I don't see one in there.

 

I see no reason to think Scooter would blossom against LHP if he only got to face them. That's pure speculation. OTOH, the Brewers have given him a big job, and he's doing it really well. We don't need him to hit LHPs this year. Let him spend a full MLB year in his relative comfort zone, then maybe think about stretching him.

[SoupTown]

Something is wrong with the people on this site if one of their main obsessions is to 'prove' Scooter is no good. The problem really lies in the fact that many of the 'old timers' on here explained ad nauseum that Scooter would not be any good because he was not that special in the minors... and... a most, most important thing for brewerfan.net... that he does not walk a lot.

 

It was a similar road for Hart to follow. brewerfan.net 'experts' labelled him as not so good (even back on the ESPN boards). And it took years for the experts to quietly be quiet. Then after a few year the expert 'forgot' how they railed on Hart.

 

My position on Scooter has always been the same. Based on his minor leagues he will likely not be much better than average (which is great at league min.). But, but, but... because he came up so young... just maybe he will improve as he goes... he, maybe, has not peaked. I am just enjoying his (and the Crews) success. And I don't really care (or give much weight to) about all the egg on the haters' faces. Heck, they should be happy as well (the egg on face haters).

[igor67]

I don't see that there is substantial evidence for any preference for Scooter among any particular segment of Brewerfan.netters. He has engendered so much discussion for a multitude of reasons, and not ones that cut cleanly to anyone particular school of thought (Which itself is one of the reasons he has spawned so much discussion). On one axis he was a low walk low power guy. Scouts though have always loved his hit tool, but somehow they botched his defensive rating (This should remind us that with the entire minors to keep track of scouts actually see guys who are not top level very sporadically). Then there was the declining production as he rose through the levels. Throw in the Weeks factor, and you have a guy for people to fight over.

 

On the platoon splits if you want to accurately attempt to figure out what his line would be with a more normal spread of ABs, you can't use his line this year which absolutely has to be a low sample size fluke. Even players with a big platoon split don't have a .600 OPS split, more like half that in the extreme cases. Which would put his overall line somewhere in the mid to high .700s without assuming any magic growth.

[Outlander]

Scooter Gennett is good at hitting.

 

I keep saying it over and over, but you just can't take his LHP stats seriously until he's actually going against Starting LHP. Not Left Handed Specialists designed to get a LH Batter out like Gennett. His numbers will be better I'd bet at least .650OPS vs LH pitching if he went vs LH Starters and actually got to face them more than 1 time in a game. Batters historically do better the 2nd time and 3rd time around facing starters. So all the haters of Gennett vs LHP keep throwing your numbers of what he's done thus far vs. LHP and ignore that fact.

Come on, he has played against plenty of left handers in the minors and didn't really fair too well after A ball. Saying he doesn't hit lefties well is a fact, stating he will get better after facing them a couple of time is not fact.

[TooLiveBrew]

Something is wrong with the people on this site if one of their main obsessions is to 'prove' Scooter is no good.

This concept of "Scooter haters", as best I can tell, really isn't true. SoupTown, I know you're not the only poster to feel this way, but I'd ask if anyone can provide a good example of posters out to "prove Scooter is no good." No good. Not just that he struggles against LHPs.

 

I think Gennett's performance speaks for itself at this point, both in terms of his strengths & his weaknesses.

[Bombers]

TLB - I think SoupTown is confusing haters with posters thinking he is nothing more than 1 side of a platoon. and there is a discussion there to be had. Clearly numbers are numbers. He wasn't amazing in the minors. But he was adequate against LHP.

 

Majors (AB / AVG / SLG / OBP / OPS)

RHP - 381 / 349 / .383 /.543 / .927

LHP - 70 / .143 / .167 / .157 / .324

 

Minors - Last full year of Minor Leagues (AA - 2012)

RHP- 375 / .315 / .354 / .405 / .759

LHP - 158 / .241 / .271 / .335 / .607

 

I would venture to say as brewcrewdue80 says, his Major league vs LHP numbers are a product of facing a high majority of specialists. So I would agree (and I would say we probably all do, he is clearly better than a .324 OPS. Even his minor league numbers are not that bad.)

 

It then brings us to going from a .759 OPS in the minors to a .927 in the majors. Clearly this is part the product of the platoon. As topper09er showed his numbers would go down if he faced more LHP. But the flip side is Funketown's argument that Braun has faced 25% LHP and Gennett 15%. So if you were to bump Gennett up 10% more, how much would it go down? I don't think that drastically - and a .800 OPS is probably semi accurate. (As some have said)

 

Someone once posted that his high OPS is due to him being a "singles hitter" and racking up a lot of hits. I would say that is someone kind of being slightly a hater. Does one have to hit HR's to have a high OPS for it to be "counted." I would say no. (If I could find that post I would) ... so there is probably a little truth to there being "haters" where it kind of does seam like (for whatever reason) some posters are a slightly against giving him his due as they hold stats in a different regard than others. (Not that there is anything wrong with that - it just gives a certain impression. Just my two cents.)

 

One thing we can all agree on - This season is a lot of fun especially when we can "argue" about how good a .927 OPS player is with 238 AB's this year.

 

Update - "Singles hitter" post was in reference to what would happen if his singles decreased and not because he doesn't hit for HR power. So I stand corrected.

[logan82]

How would his stats look if he actually had to face left handed pitching on a regular basis? Lots of guys can look good in a platoon.

 

I don't care. Doug Melvin can always find a right handed 2B who can take on the lefties in a platoon situation.

 

Platoons (properly used) are not a bad thing.

I am not so sure about that. Doug Melvin has failed a few times recently to replace seemingly crappy easily replaceable players. Yuni, twice, and Overbay spring to mind immediately.

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

Someone once posted that his high OPS is due to him being a "singles hitter" and racking up a lot of hits. I would say that is someone kind of being slightly a hater.

 

 

What I said was, (yes, it was me), was that his OBP was very highly 'batting average' driven because he doesn't take a lot of walks. Which he doesn't. He also doesn't hit for a lot of power. Which he doesn't. And given his slight size, I don't think it's reasonable to EVER expect Scoot to be much more than a 12 - 15 homerun guy at his absolute peak.

 

What that means is, if Scooter has a down year where he hits .250 - ish, due to his lack of walks and SLG, he could really be an offensive limitation. That is not 'hating', that's just pointing out the possible limitations in his offensive skillset. He's been fantastic this year, and if you think I'm rooting AGAINST the guy you're dead wrong.

 

My guess was that in his peak years, Scooter would be a guy that would OPS between .720 and .750. If he doesn't hit .280 or better, (again, because his OBP and SLG are very dependent on batting average), that could drive his slash line down signifcantly. He's not an Adam Dunn type where he can hit .220 and still OPS over .800. That's not hating. That's just statistical analysis.

 

I'm ecstatic that Scooter is exceeding my expectations. Insinuating otherwise is looking past the analysis and trying to assume you think I want him to fail, which is 100% false.

[Bombers]

My apologies RoCoBrewfan - I just read that as saying well his high OPS is due to him being a singles hitter and not a true power hitter so it doesn't count as much as someone who hits more doubles / HR's. I see what your saying though. If his singles goes down, thus his AVG would go down, ultimately impacting OPS. Clearly - that makes sense and my mistake.

[3and2Fastball]

Wondering if Scooter would be able to further develop his offensive game over the next few years by walking more?

[logan82]

Wondering if Scooter would be able to further develop his offensive game over the next few years by walking more?

Hopefully. Never really showed up in his time in the minors.

[Fear The Chorizo]

A 0.720-0.750 OPS 2B would make Scooter a top ten offensive 2B in MLB. Right now his career OPS is 0.834, which is the exact OPS for him thus far this season. The platoon advantage obviously inflates those #'s for Scooter, but the plus side is there are more RHP in the majors than lefties, so most of Scooter's AB's even as an everyday player would be against RHP. That said, even a 100 point OPS drop due to playing full time and struggling against LHP more often would still make him an above average offensive 2B.

 

For a guy who never sniffed any top 100 prospect list before he earned his shot at the big leagues, you take that every stinking time. Couldn't be happier with Scooter thus far, and any issues people have with his current platoon-mate shouldn't be held against his value to the club. From a dollar to production value, I'd bet the Brewers are getting better production at 2B than what they're actually paying Scooter/Weeks together so far in 2014.

[Daubs]

Gennett's literally on fire....from last night:

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/8/3/6/81892836/Gennett_on_fire_sse4l2y0.gif

[Thurston Fluff]

Wondering if Scooter would be able to further develop his offensive game over the next few years by walking more?

Hopefully. Never really showed up in his time in the minors.

 

Gomez was like that. I don't know what his minor league numbers were like but he sure has grown as a hitter since he's been here. Sometimes it just take some players longer to figure out how to take walks. Just my opinion, not backed up by much, but I suspect naturally good contact hitters have more problems learning to take pitches because they think they can hit them.

[torts]

Gomez' career slash in the minors over 1351 at bats - .278/.340/.735

[Raw Biz]

 

Gomez was like that. I don't know what his minor league numbers were like but he sure has grown as a hitter since he's been here. Sometimes it just take some players longer to figure out how to take walks. Just my opinion, not backed up by much, but I suspect naturally good contact hitters have more problems learning to take pitches because they think they can hit them.

 

I was a huge Gomez supporter because he had all the physical tools and I was just waiting for him to put them together. With a guy like Scooter, he doesn't have the natural ability/tools that a guy like Gomez has. As such, I don't know how much more room there is for him to develop, we may be seeing his peak.

 

Obviously you never know and I'm rooting for him. He seems to get the most he can out of his abilities and fans are always going to love that scrappy, hard-working player (like a McGehee, Eckstein, etc.) but I think their success is a lot more short-lived than a guy with the physical tools like Gomez. I guess I'm just waiting for him to turn back into the pumpkin.

[Dragonbait]

He seems to get the most he can out of his abilities and fans are always going to love that scrappy, hard-working player .

 

 

Sounds like Counsell.

[lcbj68c]

Gennett's literally on fire....from last night:

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/8/3/6/81892836/Gennett_on_fire_sse4l2y0.gif

 

Where did this come from? And where can I find the whole video?

 

It looks like they lit some paper on fire and tossed it at his feet for the excuse to throw water his way? If so, that's a great gag and I'd love to see the whole video.

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

Obviously you never know and I'm rooting for him. He seems to get the most he can out of his abilities and fans are always going to love that scrappy, hard-working player (like a McGehee, Eckstein, etc.) but I think their success is a lot more short-lived than a guy with the physical tools like Gomez. I guess I'm just waiting for him to turn back into the pumpkin.

 

 

The funny thing is Eckstein (to be specific) had 3 seasons in the minors where he put up over an .800 OPS, and then never so much as sniffed .800 in the majors, and never slugged .400. Even in a season that Eckstein hit .300, he didn't slug .400. Scooter is going to have a short peak (I suspect), but 10 - 12 homers and 30 or even a 40 doubles isn't out of the question for him if he plays enough to get the requisite PA's.

[Daubs]

Gennett's literally on fire....from last night:

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/8/3/6/81892836/Gennett_on_fire_sse4l2y0.gif

 

Where did this come from? And where can I find the whole video?

 

It looks like they lit some paper on fire and tossed it at his feet for the excuse to throw water his way? If so, that's a great gag and I'd love to see the whole video.

 

Here's the article:

http://wapc.mlb.com/cutfour/2014/06/27/81884022/scooter-gennett-and-the-brewers-are-literally-on-fire

[brewcrewdue80]

Scooter Gennett is good at hitting.

 

I keep saying it over and over, but you just can't take his LHP stats seriously until he's actually going against Starting LHP. Not Left Handed Specialists designed to get a LH Batter out like Gennett. His numbers will be better I'd bet at least .650OPS vs LH pitching if he went vs LH Starters and actually got to face them more than 1 time in a game. Batters historically do better the 2nd time and 3rd time around facing starters. So all the haters of Gennett vs LHP keep throwing your numbers of what he's done thus far vs. LHP and ignore that fact.

Come on, he has played against plenty of left handers in the minors and didn't really fair too well after A ball. Saying he doesn't hit lefties well is a fact, stating he will get better after facing them a couple of time is not fact.

 

Seeing a Starter multiple times in a game, it is a fact batters do better as that pitcher tires. Seeing a pitcher 3-4 times, I am thinking Gennett would take his lumps but also get his hits. Yeah, great he didn't fair to well in the Minors overall vs. LHP. But what do the Majority of LH pitchers in the Minors do? 4/5IP? With the best of them going 6 or more. So again Scooter isn't facing a LH Starter that 4th time around and maybe not even that 3rd time around. Scooter to begin the season was frustrating, he had a hack it pull-swing. Now you watch him willingly take it towards LeftField with his approaches at the plate. If he maintains that Left-Field approach he will be better vs. LeftHand Pitching. That's called Growth and learning and making adjustments. It's that type of improvement in his game that will lead to doing better vs. LHPs when he gets a chance to face them more often.

Scooter Gennett is good at hitting.

 

I keep saying it over and over, but you just can't take his LHP stats seriously until he's actually going against Starting LHP. Not Left Handed Specialists designed to get a LH Batter out like Gennett. His numbers will be better I'd bet at least .650OPS vs LH pitching if he went vs LH Starters and actually got to face them more than 1 time in a game. Batters historically do better the 2nd time and 3rd time around facing starters. So all the haters of Gennett vs LHP keep throwing your numbers of what he's done thus far vs. LHP and ignore that fact.

What fact? I don't see one in there.

 

I see no reason to think Scooter would blossom against LHP if he only got to face them. That's pure speculation. OTOH, the Brewers have given him a big job, and he's doing it really well. We don't need him to hit LHPs this year. Let him spend a full MLB year in his relative comfort zone, then maybe think about stretching him.

 

The Fact that Batters improve vs a Starting pitcher the 2nd/3rd and 4th time they get to see him in a game. But I'll leave you with this article on what I'm stating as fact:

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2014/2/11/5400006/mathenaging-what-underlying-trends-influence-the-decision-to-pull-a