General thoughts on the franchise.

[brewmann04]

The team needs to move in another direction from the top to bottom. I think Melvin even made some good trades it time for a change. The scouting dept needs to be changed also as well as the coaching staff .

[adambr2]

It really doesn't matter who is GM anyway. If Mark A. won't give them full control over personnel decisions, they're just a puppet.

[brewmann04]

wow i hope people are not complaing about Mark A how quick we forget the past.

[adambr2]

wow i hope people are not complaing about Mark A how quick we forget the past.

 

I will always be grateful for the great things Mark A has done for the franchise and turning us around for awhile and helping us get back to the playoffs.

 

That doesn't mean he gets a free pass for life and is held blameless for his role in this debacle.

[trwi7]

wow i hope people are not complaing about Mark A how quick we forget the past.

 

If he is meddling and not letting the GM or anyone else do what they think is right for the franchise then he deserves criticism. If you don't trust your baseball people enough to let them make decisions, then fire them. If you want to make your own decisions, then fire them, let it be known you're making the decisions and be prepared for either praise or backlash based on how the team does.

[brewmann04]

what are some of the issues with Mark except he went over doug head getting loshe. But he green lighted the moves by doug to get us CC and Grienke.

[SeriesFinale]

Texas never won until he got there and Milwaukee has been as good under his watch as any GM in the team's history.

 

Won-Lost:

 

Brewers under Harry Dalton = 1149-1062 (52.0%)

 

Brewers under Doug Melvin (ignoring partial year he was hired) = 732-725 (50.2%)

 

 

World series appearances:

 

Under Dalton = 1

 

Under Melvin = 0

 

 

 

As good? OK......

 

The solution is clear to get us over that .018 hump: hire Harry Dalton.

[brewmann04]

I think Doug has alot of Freedom in making moves and that he made moves to help this team. But its the young pitching that has not developed at all.I not sure if the scouts or the minor league coaches not getting the job done. But i not sure anyone thought that we be seeing the brewers with this high of a payroll.

[AJAY]

I feel bad for the management. How was anybody supposed to predict that Corey Hart would get hurt, Aramis Ramirez would get hurt, Rickie Weeks would totally stink, and Jonathan Lucroy would slump so badly? Who could've predicted that Yovani Gallaro would slide backwards?

 

Having said that, I do have some issues with management and our organizational philosophy . . .

 

I hundred percent agree with most of the posters here who feel the organization really needs to turn into a pitching organization and less of a power hitting organization. I am not saying Doug Melvin should be fired, but he needs to acknowledge his own very serious shortcomings and let someone else be responsible for the pitching side of the organization. As another poster stated, I would love to see somebody credible from the Cardinals, Dodgers,or Giants be hired to run that aspect of the organization. I also believe the Brewers should NEVER consider themselves as contenders unless they have a true number one ace who is nationally acknowledged to be an ace. Somewhere in the team's official mission statement, there should be a commitment to always having a true number one starter in the rotation unless in a rebuilding phase.

 

I'm also a believer that you need professional hitters from 1 to 8 in the lineup, especially to carry you through October. Guys like Rickie Weeks and Corey Hart may be able to have success during the regular season when you're facing a lot of average pitchers. But come October, you need guys who can battle, foul off tough pitches, drop a bunt, or slap an opposite field single against the best aces and nastiest relievers in the league. Execution and fundamentals needs to be a bigger emphasis in drafting and player development. Tools are nice, but if you can't use them well against the best opponents, it won't matter.

 

I absolutely despise automatic outs in the lineup because I believe they completely negate any all-star contributions from other guys on your team. I want a GM who understands that a guy like Cesar Izturis should never ever be on the roster. The bench needs to be deeper. Always assume a key starter will be lost for the year, and have a replacement who you would feel comfortable with. This needs to be an organizational mindset and commitment. I almost vomited when the Brewers let Jerry Hairston walk away.

 

I also want a general manager who understands that when you let guys like Takashi Saito and LaTroy Hawkins go, you better replace them with someone worthwhile instead of Tim Dillard and Manny Parra. When the strength of your team was the bullpen, why are you messing with the successful formula?

 

I would advise Mark Attanasio to put together a secret task force that does nothing but study the Cardinals organization from top to bottom for the next three years. I would interview every former Cardinals player, coach, manager, scout, executive, etc. I would follow, analyze, and scout every current member of that organization. I would crunch every statistic about every player they draft, sign, trade, release, or show interest in to figure out what is the magic formula that they know which nobody else knows. This would be quietly done behind Doug Melvin's back.

 

As a front office, I would also have more alarm bells go off when whenever you have fans who are smarter than the manager. The entire state of Wisconsin knew that

Shaun Marcum was going to get lit up like a Christmas tree in Game 6 of the NLCS. How did Ron Roenicke not know this ? I repeat, how did Ron Roenicke not know this? Ned Yost was an absolute dimwit who should've been fired immediately after blowing the 2007 season due to his utter stupidity. Why was he retained for 2008 ?

 

The front office still has some things to learn. The sooner the better.

[xisxisxis]

I guess it doesn't matter in the least that one team had a whole other layer of playoffs to get to the world series?

 

And that's because of what? It's kinda implied in the fact that there's more series now. Give up? It's because a lot more teams get into the playoffs now than during Dalton's time. Twice as many. In fact only 1 out of 7 teams made the playoffs then and 1 in 4 or 4/15ths now make the playoffs. Using the old rules, the Brewers don't make the playoffs in 2008. It's harder to make it to the playoffs when there are fewer teams that get in than it is to win 2 series back to back in the playoffs. That's because you play a whole season to be one of 2 teams, while in the playoffs you only need to win 2 series in a row. Yeah "only" seems kinda easy, but no Melvin team has ever done it.

 

Who cares? Point is they are/were both competent.

 

Well one almost achieved the ultimate goal and the other has failed for 25 years. Is Melvin incompetent? No, he's just not the man who's going to build the Brewers team that is going to return to the World Series. He's had plenty of time and now we have a major league team that is as dysfunctional as they come and a minor league system that is in the bottom third if not the bottom 2-3 of all major league teams. For what? 1 playoff run? There's no quick or medium fix for this team. There's only a slow long process and as TheCrew and The Stache have pointed out the people in place right now are horrible at talent evaluation/drafting/player development. Oh so much wasted talent for 1 playoff series win.....

[3and2Fastball]

I honestly think the Brewers are really as bad as they look right now. I think they are one of 5-6 worst teams in MLB and I'm looking forward to a Top 5 draft pick in 2014

 

We don't have many players who do all the little things a winning team needs: drawing key walks, playing smart baseball, making the extra plays on the field or the basepaths. We're a team of free swingers with one of the worst starting pitching rotations in MLB and a manager who is seemingly losing control of the team and a GM & Owner who think "we aren't that bad"/"we're just a few players away"

 

We really are that bad

[The stache]

I feel bad for the management. How was anybody supposed to predict that Corey Hart would get hurt, Aramis Ramirez would get hurt, Rickie Weeks would totally stink, and Jonathan Lucroy would slump so badly? Who could've predicted that Yovani Gallaro would slide backwards?

 

Who could have predicted that Jean Segura would be leading the National League in batting, have 8 home runs and 13 stolen bases a third of the way into the season? Who could have predicted that Carlos Gomez would be leading the team with 10 home runs, be batting over .330 a third of the way into the season.

 

There are surprises on both end. We've had the top half of our lineup batting over .300 the whole season. As far as the pitching rotation, I think every single preseason publication I read had the Brewers in 4th place precisely because of rotational issues. Gallardo is not an ace. He's a good #2 when he's on. We had a #2 to start, and no clear #3. Estrada is a 3/4, Fiers and Peralta are 4's at best, while Peralta has upside to be better. Before signing Lohse, this rotation was in serious trouble. Throw in Gallardo's awful start, and we were doomed to play well below .500 ball if any of our offensive cogs were not firing. No Aramis Ramirez or Corey Hart meant real trouble.

 

As far as the who could have predicted Corey Hart and Aramis Ramirez would be hurt? A lot of people. Corey Hart is hurt a lot. Make no mistake, he's one of my favorite players on the Brewers, but he's out quite a bit. He missed 13 games last year (not bad). He missed 32 in 2011. He missed 17 in 2010, and 47 games in 2009. You're seriously surprised he's hurt again this year? Aramis Ramirez is going to be 35 in June. He missed 13 games in 2012 and 2011 (again, not terrible), 38 games in 2010, and 80 games in 2009. So, who could have predicted they'd be hurt? A good GM should have had at least a decent contingency plan in place in the likelihood that these guys did get hurt again. Instead we had Alex Gonzalez and Yuni Betancourt, who are barely Major League players. When they did get hurt, 1/4 of our lineup turned to crap.

[The stache]

I think you are overstating how bad the franchise is due to a bad start to a degree. Frankly the team isn't as bad as you are making it out to be. Granted they are playing poorly right now but that doesn't mean they are doomed to be this bad all season long.

 

The Milwaukee Brewers are in the 43rd year of their existence.

 

In the very first month this team played baseball, back in April of 1970, the Brewers were 5-15. 5 wins is the fewest in any month in the history of this team.

 

The Brewers in May of 2013, with an extra seven games, are thus far 5-20 with two games to play. If we don't win either one of these two remaining games, we will tie a record for fewest wins in any month. And we will easily set the worst winning percentage of any month in team history.

 

So, leaving behind this train wreck of a Major League roster, let's look at our minor league system.

 

Of the top 20 prospects the Brewers have, according to MLB.com, we might have one player that's a full time starter, Hunter Morris, and there's questions about his defense. Our sixth best prospect, Scooter Gennett, is a substitute on most any other Major League roster, not a starter. Our #1 rated prospect, Tyler Thornburg, is 0-6 with a 6.66 ERA and a 1.71 WHIP at AAA Nashville.

 

What about the other positional players, you say? Well, there's Khris Davis, who can really only play left field. But he's just a little blocked there by somebody named Braun. So, first base is a possibility? Well, he's blocked by the aforementioned Morris. Clint Coulter? He's going to have a really nice bat, but again, where does he play? I think Stevie Wonder could tell you he's not a catcher, and trying to make him a catcher could stunt his growth as a hitter (just ask the Seattle Mariners how that project of making Jesus Montero a catcher turned out as he's riding the bus back to AAA). Victor Roache? Impressive power, probably a 70 power tool on the 20-80 scale. He's at least an average fielder with a good arm and glove, but he doesn't have a lot of speed. And he's got some holes in his swing (that may be worked out). He's possibly our right fielder of the future.

 

But as bad as some other teams have it, their minor league talent is simply better than ours.

 

The Florida Marlins are dreadful right now. But look at their young talent. Jose Fernandez is going to be a stud pitcher for years to come (if the Marlins don't ruin his arm by having him up too early). Christian Yelich (12), Jake Marisnick (64), Justin Nicolino (66), and Andrew Heaney (75) are all top 100 prospects, and Marcell Ozuna soon will be. And I know that prospects don't always pan out, but that's 4, possibly 5 of the top 100 prospects in the game, in the Marlin system, not including Jose Fernandez, who was #8 a week ago before he fell off the prospect list (as he'd pitched in enough innings to qualify for rookie status).

 

The Brewers have zero top 100 prospects, and the one we just had is getting lit up like a Minora.

 

So, let's reflect. Third worst record in the majors, about to have the worst monthly record in the 43 year history of our franchise, and a minor league system completely devoid of impact players.

 

But you're right. It's not as bad as it seems.

[The stache]

I honestly think the Brewers are really as bad as they look right now. I think they are one of 5-6 worst teams in MLB and I'm looking forward to a Top 5 draft pick in 2014

 

We don't have many players who do all the little things a winning team needs: drawing key walks, playing smart baseball, making the extra plays on the field or the basepaths. We're a team of free swingers with one of the worst starting pitching rotations in MLB and a manager who is seemingly losing control of the team and a GM & Owner who think "we aren't that bad"/"we're just a few players away"

 

We really are that bad

 

Yes, we are. It gives me no joy to say it, but we are that bad.

 

The Twins were 19-38 before facing us these last three games, and they're feasting on us. This marvelous Twins team that had lost 11 of it's last 12 games is suddenly beating us into submission.

 

We're scoring 3.36 runs a game for the month of May. We've failed to score more than a run in 9 of 25 games. We've scored 1 or 2 runs in 12 of 25 games.

 

Think about what I just said. This team was the top scoring team in the National League last season. Yet in nearly half of the 25 games we've played in May, we've failed to score more than 2 runs.

[The stache]

We've scored 84 runs in 25 games, and have allowed 135.

 

So, again, we're scoring 3.36 runs per game.

We're allowing 5.4 runs per game.

 

For the 25 games in the month of May, we're being outscored by more than 2 runs per game.

[TooLiveBrew]

One thing I'm genuinely concerned about wrt Melvin's job security is that Attanasio us drinking the koolaid on 'don't listen to the experts, we have talent in the farm system.'. Don't get me wrong, we do, but the company line in recent years has been basically that the experts are just overlooking a rich depth of talent.

[Invader3K]

I don't know if Attanasio can really be buying that. What he says during interviews on FSN and what he really thinks are probably quite different.

 

If our farm system is really that much better than all the experts say, why aren't we calling up a 2B to replace Weeks and starters to replace Burgos, Peralta, etc? Why do we have backup shortstops playing first base? Hard to sell our "great farm system" when other teams are calling up top notch prospects and we keep trotting the same junk out.

[adambr2]

I don't know anyone could look at our farm system and say with a straight face that it's "not bad".

 

Going back to 2008, I could make a realistic case that LaPorta, Parra, Escobar, Jeffress, Gamel, Salome, LaPorta, Cain, Brantley, Lucroy, Green, and Gillespie were all as good or better than anyone in our current system.

 

Even of that list, Lucroy is the one and only to become an established big leaguer for us. The rest either flamed out or were used as trade bait. So I think if Melvin and Mark A are drinking the Kool-Aid on the current system, they really are deceiving themselves. Our best pitching prospect is really struggling badly in AAA. Hunter Morris is a nice prospect, but he's no better of one than Gamel and certainly less of a prospect than LaPorta was.

 

Scooter Gennett is basically the second base version of Tony Gwynn Jr. I get that people just want to see Weeks replaced, but Gennett, if he starts, just looks like a replacement level player to me. I don't see the hype.

 

I don't know how anyone could look at our system and not think that it is exactly as bas as the experts say it is.

[TheCrew07]

One thing I'm genuinely concerned about wrt Melvin's job security is that Attanasio us drinking the koolaid on 'don't listen to the experts, we have talent in the farm system.'. Don't get me wrong, we do, but the company line in recent years has been basically that the experts are just overlooking a rich depth of talent.

 

I finally got around to reading that Hunt article from the JSO which was linked here a couple of days ago about the farm not being as bad as we think... what a garbage piece. It read like nothing more than organizational propaganda. All of the respected publications say one thing, but trust "me" Brewer fans, we're better than that. Hunt knows even less about the minor league system than TH does why is he suddenly an expert? I'd go back and quote every inaccurate statement in that article but it's not worth the time.

 

I've been hating on Reid Nichols longer than I've been hating on Melvin, he's a terrible farm director and always has been. He's the reason the players we call up continually stink defensively and aren't fundamentally sound (unless they are naturals), the only organizational priority for many years was hitting. Pitching wise they made a great move hiring Lee Tunnell, I've learned more from his interviews over the years than from any other single source, but then they put him in the MLB bullpen while many of our most important pitching prospects continue to have control issues. The situation is just a terrible waste of resources, he's our best teacher, yet it's Kranitz role to work the MLB pitchers, and our minor leaguers continue to work through control problems.

 

One thing that struck me reading the comments after Hunt's article, which admittedly is something I rarely do, is how few people still don't realize that... 1) Melvin doesn't have hardly anything to do with the draft, 2) He didn't hire Jack Z and 3) He's not directly responsible for minor league development.

 

Melvin is ultimately responsible for everything given his position, but he doesn't directly deal with any aspect of the organization other than the MLB roster. The JSO's sports writers have written nothing more than fluff pieces stating the obvious general opinion of the public or spewing the organization's propaganda. They've continually attacked the wrong the players, blindly supported the wrong moves, and have rarely asked the hard/tough questions. Why does Ash give most of the interviews on the minor leagues? Why aren't Seid and Nichols front and center?

 

It's one thing to acknowledge the team needs to do better developing it's own pitching, even the most casual fan knows that, but it's another to completely avoid asking why they haven't and then fully exploring why the organization hasn't been able to. Isn't the "why" the most important point? Trading for Sabathia, Greinke, and Marcum didn't fix anything, those moves weren't solutions they were patches or band-aids, and the idea shouldn't be to build up the farm system enough to travel down that same road again.

 

That article scares me, because it reads like it came directly from the organization, and if so there's been very little soul searching or even any acknowledgement that they have may have been on the wrong path for years. The only thing close in print has been MA's quote from last year to affect of "we need to stop spending money just to spend money which is basically all we've done in the past"... well no kidding, but then he turns around and signs Lohse this year to have a negligible effect in the grand scheme while giving up a 1st round pick to do so.

 

It's all truly maddening from my perspective, the same patterns just keep repeating themselves over and over and so far the only outlier has been the Segura, Hellweg, Pena trade which we need more of. 1 or 2 effective young starting pitchers would make all the difference for this franchise, that's all we need at MLB. Peralta needs to start ascending, Yo needs to start ascending, and then if we can acquire 1-2 legit pitching prospects and we're in very good shape. It won't take much to right the ship in Milwaukee, but we've been in that same situation for years and have always opted for the "veteran solution". Developing the talent behind the MLB team is another matter entirely but the Brewers really aren't all that far away from having some legitimate starting pitching for years. The flip side of course is that they do nothing to acquire young starting pitching and we stick with the status quo.

[brewmann04]

I have to agree with most of the experts here that farm system is not very good and dont believe we have to many major league prospects. I am hoping Nelson will be one of the guys to make an impact on the rotation.The Reports that i have read are not very promising especially with the College Arms.

[monty57]

One thing I'm genuinely concerned about wrt Melvin's job security is that Attanasio us drinking the koolaid on 'don't listen to the experts, we have talent in the farm system.'. Don't get me wrong, we do, but the company line in recent years has been basically that the experts are just overlooking a rich depth of talent.

 

I don't know. Publicly, of course Melvin/Mark A. aren't going to say "the farm system stinks," but look at the actions they're taking.

 

-When we lost our top two first basemen this spring, Melvin didn't go with Morris when it seemed to be the obvious move. Instead he went with Alex Gonzalez!! Not a big show of faith in our top hitting prospect.

 

-On the non-pitching side, our position of greatest depth in the minors is OF, so Melvin decided to lock Gomez up with to multi-year, eight figure salary. Not a big show of faith in our OF prospects.

 

-We continue to play Weeks, even though he's been really bad, and playing him makes the likelihood of his option vesting more of a reality. If Gennett were really a "top prospect," he would be our starting second baseman right now. If he were highly regarded, we would probably have traded Weeks this past offseason after a decent second half last year brought his trade value up.

 

-While they've shown faith in Peralta, who started the season with the Brewers when he needed more time in the minors to work on control (and to get another season's worth of control), Fiers was pulled from the rotation after one start, and when we needed a spot starter, we chose Figaro over our heralded starting pitchers at AAA. Not showing a lot of confidence in Thornberg, Hellweg, Pena, Jungman, Nelson, etc who we are publicly led to believe are going to make up the future rotation for the Brewers. I'm not talking about bringing them up for good... the Brewer brass apparently don't even trust them for 1-2 starts during a losing season. The arguement of 40-man spots doesn't hold water, as we just spent a 40-man spot on Hand when we could've brought up Sanchez, saving that spot for one of the starting pitchers if one was deemed worthy.

 

No, I don't think the behind-closed-door meetings consist of Melvin blowing smoke about how great our farm is. They probably hem and haw about "we're better than this, what can we do," but I apparently the answer to that is not "bring up those top guys from the farm."

[Thurston Fluff]

And that's because of what? It's kinda implied in the fact that there's more series now. Give up? It's because a lot more teams get into the playoffs now than during Dalton's time. Twice as many. In fact only 1 out of 7 teams made the playoffs then and 1 in 4 or 4/15ths now make the playoffs. Using the old rules, the Brewers don't make the playoffs in 2008. It's harder to make it to the playoffs when there are fewer teams that get in than it is to win 2 series back to back in the playoffs. That's because you play a whole season to be one of 2 teams, while in the playoffs you only need to win 2 series in a row. Yeah "only" seems kinda easy, but no Melvin team has ever done it.

 

I don't know what you are getting at here. Who implied giving up? It was also easier to keep a team together back then because the free agent market had yet to blow up. It was an era where teams colluded with each other to keep player salaries low. One has to wonder what this team would look like with both Greinke and Sabathia on it. That would have been possible if it was 1982. Seems to me that and fewer teams competing for quality players made his job easier as well. He was playing on a much more even playing field than Melvin is. I'm not trying to belittle what Dalton did. I think he was very good at what he did. I'm just saying Melvin is doing as well as Dalton did.

Well one almost achieved the ultimate goal and the other has failed for 25 years. Is Melvin incompetent? No, he's just not the man who's going to build the Brewers team that is going to return to the World Series.

 

One almost achieved it? When someone almost achieves something that means he failed doesn't it? I think a man who build a 96 win team can probably build a team that wins a world series. After all a 95 win team almost won it.

A good GM should have had at least a decent contingency plan in place in the likelihood that these guys did get hurt again. Instead we had Alex Gonzalez and Yuni Betancourt, who are barely Major League players. When they did get hurt, 1/4 of our lineup turned to crap.

 

Actually he had Gamel as the backup plan. I'm not sure there are many teams whose plan C involves much more than barely major league capable.

[3and2Fastball]

Hunter Morris is a nice prospect, but he's no better of one than Gamel and certainly less of a prospect than LaPorta was.

 

Scooter Gennett is basically the second base version of Tony Gwynn Jr. I get that people just want to see Weeks replaced, but Gennett, if he starts, just looks like a replacement level player to me. I don't see the hype.

.

 

Trust me, I'm not real big on the Brewers current farm system, but I do like those players. The exciting thing about Morris is that he has really improved his walk rate while retaining or developing power. His age 24 season he is showing more power than Gamel did at age 24. LaPorta at age 24 had 17 HR's in 93 games. Morris has 10 in 44 games so far this year (both in AAA ball)

 

I like Scooter. A lot. He has hit for average at every level. Now, I'm enough of a stats-geek to realize that BA is not a very good stat, but he is putting up a .347 OBP in addition to his .305

 

I do get the comparison to Tony Gwynn Jr: Tony put up similar numbers in his age 23 season as Scooter is putting up now (and Tony had a lot more stolen bases and better defense)

 

I think Scooter will give the Brewers quality at-bats and help the team as a left handed batter in the lineup. I think he projects to do better as a MLB hitter than Gwynn did. I really like Scooter's mechanics and approach at the plate. I think he can consistently hit .300/.340/.720 at the MLB level and there is value in that

[brewmann04]

I really don't believe that any one thinks Mark does not see what going around his ball club especially through the minors.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Going into this season, I viewed it as a transition year from the 2008-2011 playoff cores to what would make up the everyday roster and pitching staff moving forward. I expected struggles due to the lack of pitching experience/depth/quality, and the transition of young players filling everyday roles. Then both Gamel and Hart got injured, throwing the 1B situation into a tailspin. Ramirez got hurt and set him back a solid month. At the last minute, the Brewers decided to sign Lohse and forfeit their 2013 1st round pick. It felt like instead of ripping the band-aid off and making some tough decisions with the future of this roster, the Brewers took the "safer" approach and signed more veterans to ease the MLB team's decline. In Melvin's defense he almost had to, since there really wasn't anything ready to step in and contribute consistently in their minor league system right now. It's starting to feel like the Houston Astros about 4 seasons ago...

 

More than anything, I think this organization needs some fresh faces, on and off the field. Many of the middling veterans that have filled roles over the past few seasons need to be sent elsewhere if any kind of trade value develops with them. Players like Hart, Weeks, Ramirez, and even Aoki should be dealt if the right deal materializes around the deadline. Veteran bullpen arms that are tradeable for value need to go. I'm advocating for a fire-sale type of trading deadline to add whatever they can to the farm system, something that also takes alot of payroll off the books.

 

Off the field, if the prospects in the minor league system drafted by the current people in the front office don't make strides this season, I think both the scouting department and player development departments need a complete housecleaning. If Melvin's unwilling to do that with his guys, then Melvin probably needs to go as well. I think things have gotten stale with this organization, and a feeling of 'meh' from this fanbase is a horrible thing for the Brewers, because any significant decline in revenues from that fanbase drastically impacts what the team can do financially.