General thoughts on the franchise.

[SoupTown]

Honestly, cant Doug just 'give up' for 2013. I can see it now. We will wait until the 31st at 11 pm and announce 'some things we had worked out fell through'. I would assume a team wanting a piece from us will give a tiny bit more NOW than they will in one month.

 

It is obvious that you sell every piece for what you can get. K-Rod is worth NIL, NADA, NOTHING to the Brewers. Why would they possibly even put him on the field one more day. Maybe Doug can hold onto him long enough so he has three or five horror outings in a row. Actually Doug did that last year or what it the year before.

 

I am so, so tired of not caring. What K-Rod and Ax do. I dont care. They can do nothing to save 2013 and they are gone after this year. Aoki. Give the poor guy a chance to play somewhere where it matters. The same with A-Ram. And we have three relievers Baden, Gorza, Gonze.... let them be FREE. Doug did good with his bullpen build. Doug is always good after the horse has bolted. Be kind to decent players and let them go somewhere useful to them, to the team they go to, and to the Brewers (for whoever we get back).

 

Now if the other 29 teams will offer nothing for our guys that are not here 2015+, then they are worth nothing. Doug will say 'I could not get good value for all my quality players'... then the same combination of quality players will put up a 100 loss season.

 

Us great fans can indeed put up with a 100 loss season if it is with youngsters who give us hope. It is just too, too cruel to see a 100 loss season with a bunch of VETS who can never improve.

 

Please, Doug. Please, Mark. We are not dumb. Please put our team out of its misery. Let them all be FREE. Let us fans be free. You are sorely hurting. re our beloved team... We are BAD. We are EXPENSIVE. And we are OLD.

[brewcrewdue80]

My general thought on the franchise is that the Brewers have a realistic shot at finishing with the #1 pick in next year's draft. Think about it. Our farm doesn't have impact players to replace whatever pieces we trade away. And for everyone that hates on Miami. Their pitching staff is filled with better pitchers than ours at the end of this week. All upside guys. We have 1. Peralta. Miami will have a rotation of Jose Fernandez, Jacob Turner, Nate Eovaldi, Henderson Alvarez and then their #5. In a division with the Mets and Phillies there are plenty of wins that staff and a Stanton HR can win. Then add the fluke run scoring game and they will take some from the Nationals and Braves as well.

 

Houston on the other hand, they may be tougher to be passed by in wins, since they are essentially looking to have Norris/Harrell traded away, I don't get how a franchise can field such a low talent of players with a half decade of trading away their best players and drafting top 5 to not be in the situation Miami sits after just 1 year of rebuilding/trading?

 

Then there's Milwaukee, Chicago White Sox, NY Mets, Seattle, Minnesota, and the Cubs.

The Mets again have impact pitching two legitimate aces in a division with soft offenses so there has to be a continual amount of wins here and there. They don't have tradeaways forthcoming to worsen their team like Milw.

Seattle(Zunino,Franklin,Miller,Hultzen) and Minnesota(Kyle Gibson,Hicks, and maybe even Buxton) are beginning to play their impact Prospects and these young men are going to flash surpising W/L total like are stretch last season.

 

That leaves the White Sox and Cubs to battle with us for 1-4 draft picks. White Sox have everyone on the trade block but Chris Sale and Paul Konerko. So they are a bad team that can get worse w/o impact talent to make a difference. Like the Brewers.

The Cubs are like the Sox and Brewers, selling and not sitting well to replace who they sell.

So my prediction on worst record in baseball at the end of the season knowing what I know today:

Houston

Chi White Sox

Milwaukee

Miami Marlins

Cubs

Top 5.

 

And of course the Cubs wont agree with Bryant and get compensated their #2 pick back pushing the Brewers down 4 instead of 3 and the Cubs will select a 60WAR player while we select the next best WAR player in the class but will only be a 36WAR player.

[JohnBriggs12]

This is one of those years where if something could go wrong, it did. I don't think it reflects a situation as dire as some as they have youngish core players at key positions. We're in a time now where teams rise and fall rapidly from year to year. The Brewers fall into that category. Healthy seasons by key players and a pitcher or two emerging, and this team can again be fighting for a playoff spot in 2014. Only those that basically choose to "start over" like Houston, the Cubs, really bottom out over several seasons.

 

That being said, Melvin's time has run out and by association, so has Roenicke's. Since the run of high draft picks ended, the farm system has not been productive. Attanasio needs to examine his role in meddling into player acquisition. Not only is he not qualified, he subverts any planning by his baseball people. Melvin's reached the age where he just won't go the extra mile and attack his job with the vigor that's needed and that includes telling his boss to butt out. I say this as a guy who's roughly the same age. It's time for newer, younger blood leading this franchise.

[Thurston Fluff]

It is obvious that you sell every piece for what you can get.

 

I don't think it is obvious nor wise to sell every piece you have for whatever you can get. All that does is leave your team with less talent and little future. Even if the player isn't in the long term plans just giving him away only makes sense if it is for salary relief. I don't think it helps the club to get a guy they view as minor league fodder. Even K-Rod, who I think will get traded, shouldn't just be given away. It isn't like he is blocking someone who is ready for the majors. We've had a hard enough time finding enough major league ready players as it is. He has a use for us even if it is merely allowing younger pitchers more time to develop before being called up. His best use is as a trade chip but that use is only as valuable as the player he can get us. If we can't get a viable prospect then perhaps his best value to us is as a stop gap to hold the fort down until we find better options.

[Invader3K]

The Brewers aren't in the position where they have to sell just to dump payroll. I am certainly not advocating just trading guys simply to trade them. However, most every player should be available if there is a decent amount enough young, cost controlled talent coming back to justify it.

[Thurston Fluff]

The Brewers aren't in the position where they have to sell just to dump payroll. I am certainly not advocating just trading guys simply to trade them. However, most every player should be available if there is a decent amount enough young, cost controlled talent coming back to justify it.

 

I agree with that. But what is considered a decent return. I'd be fine with one lower level guy who projects to be at least an average big league player for any of our relievers. I don't see the point in guys who project to bench players though. You can get that for under a million any given off season. I'm sure he's getting plenty of offers of AAAA players that he could take any time. But that doesn't get us anywhere so why do it? Wait until something is offered that might actually help in the future. If, by waiting, Doug loses out on getting even a AAAA player I am not going to crucify him for it.

[markedman5]

Looks like Aoki is a free agent after 2014 after all........So they probably should consider moving him for the right deal too....

 

http://brewersbeat.mlblogs.com/2013/07/01/new-information-on-aoki-contract/

[rondoman]

Read this today:

 

•Multiple scouts have questioned the work ethic of the Brewers' players, with one telling Rosenthal "there's a lot of quit on that team." Rosenthal writes that it isn't manager Ron Roenicke's fault that Ryan Braun, Corey Hart and Aramis Ramirez have been injured, but the negative reports could be an "ominous sign" for Roenicke. Rosenthal tweets a correction, noting that Roenicke is signed through 2014, not through 2013 as he initially reported.

[rondoman]

This is one of those years where if something could go wrong, it did. I don't think it reflects a situation as dire as some as they have youngish core players at key positions. We're in a time now where teams rise and fall rapidly from year to year. The Brewers fall into that category. Healthy seasons by key players and a pitcher or two emerging, and this team can again be fighting for a playoff spot in 2014. Only those that basically choose to "start over" like Houston, the Cubs, really bottom out over several seasons.

 

Besides Segura and Gomez which core players do we have at key positions?

 

I just dont see any way this team fights for a playoff spot next year. Too many positions need to be filled at the end of the day and the minors are pretty much bare.

[paul253]

Besides Segura and Gomez which core players do we have at key positions?

 

I still consider Lucroy a core player. He is still learning how to call games but let's not forget that decade long disaster of catchers we threw out not to long ago.

 

I am thinking Doug Melvin needs to go. He's had a decade now to try to figure out how to develop pitching and pure and simple he can't do it. I thought that 2011 draft in which he had two top of the top 15 picks in the loaded draft was extremely important and it's looking like he blew it. Taylor Jungmann is showing positive signs lately but he could have had Jose Fernandez. He also could have had Taylor Guerreri Alex Meyer or Robert Stephenson but chose Jed Bradley instead. It just seems like he and his scouting department has no idea what they're doing when it comes to pitching. And this year is showing what happens when you can't draft pitching and you run out of prospects to trade. I think this franchise is in trouble.

[reillymcshane]

Read this today:

 

•Multiple scouts have questioned the work ethic of the Brewers' players, with one telling Rosenthal "there's a lot of quit on that team." Rosenthal writes that it isn't manager Ron Roenicke's fault that Ryan Braun, Corey Hart and Aramis Ramirez have been injured, but the negative reports could be an "ominous sign" for Roenicke. Rosenthal tweets a correction, noting that Roenicke is signed through 2014, not through 2013 as he initially reported.

Losing usually leads to issues such as this. Not always, but often.

 

Good leadership from management and players can help help keep a ship from sinking too much. But sometimes it's very hard. The injuries and poor play from key guys isn't helping. A lot of the guys who should be leading - Braun, Hart, Weeks, A-Ram, Gallardo - are all injured or have suffered from poor play or other distractions.

 

With regard to Roenicke - what players are going to get excited when he gives a sinkhole like Betencourt 61 ABs in June? Yuni was playing OF for us. There is no upside to making decisions like that - and the players know it. That's RRR and Melvin's fault when we are trotting out guys like that. Perhaps I'm wrong, but you have to wonder what the other players on the team think when Yuni gets a start at 3B (just yesterday). Why not Bianchi? Or why not Halton at 1B and Francisco at 3B? I'm not saying they are much better, but guys have to wonder why they aren't given a chance.

 

The players seem to know this is a lost season. It leads to uncertainty as players wonder what their futures are. With all the injuries and the talk of fire sales, it's not a shock certain players have given up or are simply looking to the future. The club simply has to make some decisions. Decide when they feel they can contend, and then move players appropriately, then let everyone in the organization know what their situation is, and what their future is with the team.

 

I'm not a fan of RRR, so I'd rather see him let go.

[adambr2]

This team is quietly closing in on the worst record in baseball. They are that bad.

 

Even the most pessimistic of fans could not have forseen that. If significant changes aren't made, what reason is there to think next season will be any different?

[brewmann04]

The Brewers are closing in on the worst record and possible overall #1 Pick. This team needs to sell off as many assets as they can and rebulis their farm system.Then use that ouverall first pick as a bulding block. I believe that the Coaching staff has ran it course too.

[Hofbraunhaus]

The Brewers are closing in on the worst record and possible overall #1 Pick. This team needs to sell off as many assets as they can and rebulis their farm system.Then use that ouverall first pick as a bulding block. I believe that the Coaching staff has ran it course too.

 

Slightly off topic, but are there any "can't miss" prospects that are expected to be available in the draft next year like a Strasburg or Harper?

[TheCrew07]

No Strasburg, but Carlos Rodon is roughly comparable to David Price as college sophomores. Rodon would have to take a big jump consistency wise to be at Price's level, but the raw stuff is good enough to be in the conversation.

[brewmann04]

I am not sure who the #1 hitter will be but i agree about Rondon.

[RockCoCougars]

Things are looking really bleak. I'm starting to think that it would take a huge turnaround to save Melvin/Roenicke. If I had to bet, I'd say Attanasio is going to clean house. It will be interesting to see how active the team is around the deadline. Would Attanasio sign off on non-salary dump deals if he was planning on dismissing Melvin? It may not matter anyway...Gallardo torpedoed his trade value tonight.

[brewmann04]

Yo has done that in back to back starts but getting the same feeling that the FO ans Staff might be jettesioned.

[brewmann04]

here a list of top 10 prospects

op 30 follow after the break.

 

+Carlos Rodon, LHP (NC State): You could have make an argument for Rodon going 1:1 this year. His stuff, K rate, polish, and mechanics all point to him being a strong 1 or 2 starter.

+Trea Turner, SS (NC State): Strong hit tool and approach with plus speed up the middle, all of which make up for just around solid power potential.

+Alex Jackson, INF/C (California HS): The most complete high school player available. It seems likely that teams would prefer him at third once he goes pro, even though he’s quite good behind the plate.

+Tyler Beede, RHP (Vanderbilt): Live fastball and a strong breaking ball, but needs to improve his walk rate. Has clean mechanics and already has the build for pro ball.

+Michael Cederoth, RHP (San Diego State): Currently sits from 92-98, although he’s been clocked at 100 on his fastball in 2013. Both his slider and curve have shown flashes of being plus.

+Aaron Nola, RHP (LSU): The righty was sitting in the low-to-mid 90s consistently in 2013, holding his velocity late into games. He controls his fastball well, only allowing 17 walks in 109 IP.

+Touki Toussaint, RHP (Florida HS): One of the hardest throwers in this high school class, with a plus curve to boot.

+Nick Gordon, SS (Florida HS): Right there with Jackson for all-around value, though he could be the better defender of the two.

+Nick Burdi, RHP (Louisville): As a reliever he consistently touches 100+ mph. His slider is equally ridiculous as it maxes out in the low 90s. He also showed improved command in 2013. It would be fun to watch Burdi as a starter next year.

+Kyle Schwarber, C/1B (Indiana): One of the best wOBA’s (#13) in all of Division I at .479. The sophomore already has a strong approach and power stroke (17 HRs). Not entirely sure he sticks at catcher, though.

[DocLuna7]

If my quick math is correct, last night's loss put the Brewers on pace to lose 98 games this season. That puts this team on pace to lose the second most games in franchise history (after 2002). They are one game ahead of the 1970 first year Brewers, and ahead of all of the teams in the dark ages that were the 1990's in Milwaukee baseball history. I think that things may have hit the fan pretty quickly for a team that made the NLCS just two years ago.

[JohnBriggs12]

If my quick math is correct, last night's loss put the Brewers on pace to lose 98 games this season. That puts this team on pace to lose the second most games in franchise history (after 2002). They are one game ahead of the 1970 first year Brewers, and ahead of all of the teams in the dark ages that were the 1990's in Milwaukee baseball history. I think that things may have hit the fan pretty quickly for a team that made the NLCS just two years ago.

 

 

The Colorado Rockies lost 98 games last year with a pretty solid roster but some key injuries. I see the Brewers as having a very comparable season this year, and a roster that's around the talent level of the Rox. The Rockies are right around .500 now and thanks to the Dodgers and Giants underachieving, they are right in the thick of the race. I would think a healthy Brewer team could easily be back to .500 next year. They'd just need teams like the Cards, Bucs and Reds to do what the Giants and Dodgers are this year.

[fondybrewfan]

The team still isn't nearly as bad as the record indicates. We have a lot of really nice core pieces some of which are injured some of which are underperforming. We have one of the best bullpens in all of the NL this year. I think odds are very good that the offense will rebound somewhat next year and be above average. The problem will continue to be the starting rotation which has been pathetic by virtually every measure. Every starter we have has pitched below expectations; how Kranitz still has a job I am not quite sure. And obviously we don't have that #1 starter waiting in the wings.

 

I don't think their is any way that Mark cleans house. Some people are going to get traded but I don't think Mark is even going to consider letting DM or RR go this year. Its too bad that our best trading chips are either hurt (Hart) or sucky (Gallardo & Weeks). Although Weeks recent resurgence might allow us to trade ihm for something if we wanted to. 2 or 3 of the bullpen guys should be traded.

[scuttlebutts]

Just got to this site and don't have time to read all of the posts. There seems to be a call to fire a good manager and a good GM? The one area that seems to be left out is the coaching. Hitting coach has a job - how is he doing? Pitching coach has a job to do - how is he doing? Seems like a high percent of players come to the majors with great numbers. They spend a little time up in the bigs and fall apart. This seems like the problem area. Problem is they are nice guys and Milwaukee fans hate to see a nice guy (even though they are not doing their job), get fired.

[JohnBriggs12]

Just got to this site and don't have time to read all of the posts. There seems to be a call to fire a good manager and a good GM? The one area that seems to be left out is the coaching. Hitting coach has a job - how is he doing? Pitching coach has a job to do - how is he doing? Seems like a high percent of players come to the majors with great numbers. They spend a little time up in the bigs and fall apart. This seems like the problem area. Problem is they are nice guys and Milwaukee fans hate to see a nice guy (even though they are not doing their job), get fired.

 

Good manager?? Roenicke is probably as neutral as they come. Good GM? I think he's done a decent job but I don't see him as one of the brightest minds in the game and at soon to be 61, one wonders if he's got the energy and the drive to excel in such a very demanding job. I say this as someone who's his age too. So to me, it's what is Melvin capable of in the future? Maybe now is the time to make a change at the top.

 

Changing the hitting and pitching coaches are usually cosmetic moves. Players are responsible for their performance, not the coaches. As long as the manager and coaches see eye to eye, I don't see an issue.

[scuttlebutts]

Someone answer this. Why do major league teams have batting and pitching coaches if some seem to think they do nothing?