Sellers at the Trade Deadline [Designated 2013 General Brewers Trade Rumor/Idea Thread (please see post #162)]

[brewcrewdue80]

Well Homer Dave Nilson was an All-Star 1999. Favorite of mine back in the day. So wasn't 20years of Catcher Futility.

 

I'm not educated on Coulter's Progress as a Catcher or how he projects as one.

The Crew/3and2 leave the impression he's not going to make it as one. Which in the case leaves Maldanado as our lone Catcher of the future if Lucroy was traded.

If indeed Coulter isn't a Catcher on the Horizon than Keeping Lucroy as a central piece is a must.

 

If Coulter can't make it at Catcher. Then where does he move to? If his hit tool isn't up to snuff, then moving him to 3b doesn't sound like the answer. Is this a case where the team hopes they find a sucker to trade for him? Maybe keep him at Catcher and hope some team thinks what he does is worth enough to trade for to be their catcher?

Coulter is still 19 to turn 20 in July, and that's 3years ahead of Lucroy playing at A Ball to develop before moving to AA. Is Coulter looking that poor that in 3years he can't be better and approaching a Level Lucroy was when finally being moved to AA?

Someone said teaching Defense is the easiest thing you can improve a Prospect on. Hunter Morris went from a Defensive Liability as a 1b to winning a Gold Glove in 1 year? Can one accuse of rushing to judgment on a 19year old 82 games in to his professional career?

[TheCrew07]

I'm not educated on Coulter's Progress as a Catcher or how he projects as one. The Crew/3and2 leave the impression he's not going to make it as one. Which in the case leaves Maldanado as our lone Catcher of the future if Lucroy was traded. If indeed Coulter isn't a Catcher on the Horizon than Keeping Lucroy as a central piece is a must.

Clint is just terrible defensively, he has ton of bad habits that are going to take a very long time to correct because his fundamentals have been so bad for so long. Occasionally he'll just reach for a ball that's clearly going to be 2-3 feet short of him instead of getting down and blocking it. The ball will get through him and you can see he's visibly pissed at himself, he knows better, just in the heat of the moment he does things wrong. Those are typically scored a WPs, that's not even the PBs that he should easily catch and just doesn't for various reasons.

If Coulter can't make it at Catcher. Then where does he move to? If his hit tool isn't up to snuff, then moving him to 3b doesn't sound like the answer. Is this a case where the team hopes they find a sucker to trade for him? Maybe keep him at Catcher and hope some team thinks what he does is worth enough to trade for to be their catcher?

Cameron Garfield is still a C, he's in BC, it's not like the system is completely devoid of C. As far as where Coulter would end up, he's athletic enough that he could handle 3B if he has decent fielding instincts, he certainly has the arm for it. I wouldn't be opposed to moving him to 1B either, the OF is too crowed in WI for him to move there now, but maybe the OF would suit him best if he couldn't hack 3B.

 

I don't think his hit tool is a problem today, I just think he's overwhelmed, as he's trying to learn how to hit and catch, having to make huge adjustments to every part of his game. Behind the plate he's just getting beat up, when I've watched him he's taken 3-4 balls in bad spots (biceps, thighs, wrists) every single game. Full season ball is just such a huge jump for a kid like him with a short HS season and limited competition. I think we'll know much more about his bat by the end of the year, in the last couple of weeks he started swinging with authority again which is a good sign, he's slowly coming around at the plate.

Coulter is still 19 to turn 20 in July, and that's 3 years ahead of Lucroy playing at A Ball to develop before moving to AA. Is Coulter looking that poor that in 3 years he can't be better and approaching a Level Lucroy was when finally being moved to AA? Someone said teaching Defense is the easiest thing you can improve a Prospect on. Hunter Morris went from a Defensive Liability as a 1b to winning a Gold Glove in 1 year? Can one accuse of rushing to judgment on a 19year old 82 games in to his professional career?

Yes he really does look that bad behind the plate. I'm not sure teaching defense is the easiest part of baseball, many of these guys have a life time of poor habits ingrained in them, not to mention C is the most demanding defensive position there is. Also it's not like the Brewers have a history of turning out defensively/fundamentally sound players out of the minors. The best fielders were naturals and the rest had to work hard when they got to MLB... Braun, Fielder, and Weeks come immediately to mind in that regard.

 

edit. I should add that the Brewers have also been historically bad at finding a player the proper defensive position early in their MiLB career so I'll be surprised if Coulter moves off C any time soon. One of the many reasons Reid Nichols is not one of my favorite people.

[Outlander]

I don't believe in the whole "Braun's value extends beyond what he does on the field" stuff. If the team wins people will show up at the park to watch and buy merchandise. If they lose the Brewers are losing they won't. Even casual fans are smart enough to understand trading away a good player for young prospects if you are honest and explain it to them.

I guess we will never agree on this because I couldn't disagree more that casual fans would be smart enough to understand trading a great player for prospects. I don't even think many season ticket holders buy into that.

[logan82]

I don't believe in the whole "Braun's value extends beyond what he does on the field" stuff. If the team wins people will show up at the park to watch and buy merchandise. If they lose the Brewers are losing they won't. Even casual fans are smart enough to understand trading away a good player for young prospects if you are honest and explain it to them.

I guess we will never agree on this because I couldn't disagree more that casual fans would be smart enough to understand trading a great player for prospects. I don't even think many season ticket holders buy into that.

Then don't explain it to them. The only thing that matters is winning. Not many people will show up just to watch Braun. You may take a small hit in attendance when trading Braun but if you get good players back an win the fans will show up.

[nate82]

Cameron Garfield is still a C, he's in BC, it's not like the system is completely devoid of C. As far as where Coulter would end up, he's athletic enough that he could handle 3B if he has decent fielding instincts, he certainly has the arm for it. I wouldn't be opposed to moving him to 1B either, the OF is too crowed in WI for him to move there now, but maybe the OF would suit him best if he couldn't hack 3B.

 

 

As much as I like Garfield I don't believe he is going to be a good defensive C. Offensively Garfield probably has more power than Lucroy in his bat but he just swings at anything and everything. He has very little plate discipline but I do agree that the Brewers are not void of talent at the catcher position and moving Coulter off of catcher is a wise decision. Coulter could easily transition to 3B and I am not sure why the Brewers have not done this already. It is not like Coulter would be blocking anyone at 3B or impeding anyone in the minors if he is moved off of catcher and to another position preferably to 3B. Coulter may ultimately become a corner OF but I just wish the Brewers would try him at 3B.

[logan82]

Cameron Garfield is still a C, he's in BC, it's not like the system is completely devoid of C. As far as where Coulter would end up, he's athletic enough that he could handle 3B if he has decent fielding instincts, he certainly has the arm for it. I wouldn't be opposed to moving him to 1B either, the OF is too crowed in WI for him to move there now, but maybe the OF would suit him best if he couldn't hack 3B.

 

 

As much as I like Garfield I don't believe he is going to be a good defensive C. Offensively Garfield probably has more power than Lucroy in his bat but he just swings at anything and everything. He has very little plate discipline but I do agree that the Brewers are not void of talent at the catcher position and moving Coulter off of catcher is a wise decision. Coulter could easily transition to 3B and I am not sure why the Brewers have not done this already. It is not like Coulter would be blocking anyone at 3B or impeding anyone in the minors if he is moved off of catcher and to another position preferably to 3B. Coulter may ultimately become a corner OF but I just wish the Brewers would try him at 3B.

They will probably keep him there at least a year. I can't fault them to much for trying to keep him at the hardest defensive position possible.

[homer]

Well Homer Dave Nilson was an All-Star 1999. Favorite of mine back in the day. So wasn't 20years of Catcher Futility.

?

 

 

OK 13 years.

[brewcrewdue80]

Clint is just terrible defensively, he has ton of bad habits that are going to take a very long time to correct because his fundamentals have been so bad for so long. Occasionally he'll just reach for a ball that's clearly going to be 2-3 feet short of him instead of getting down and blocking it. The ball will get through him and you can see he's visibly pissed at himself, he knows better, just in the heat of the moment he does things wrong. Those are typically scored a WPs, that's not even the PBs that he should easily catch and just doesn't for various reasons.

 

Cameron Garfield is still a C, he's in BC, it's not like the system is completely devoid of C. As far as where Coulter would end up, he's athletic enough that he could handle 3B if he has decent fielding instincts, he certainly has the arm for it. I wouldn't be opposed to moving him to 1B either, the OF is too crowed in WI for him to move there now, but maybe the OF would suit him best if he couldn't hack 3B.

 

I don't think his hit tool is a problem today, I just think he's overwhelmed, as he's trying to learn how to hit and catch, having to make huge adjustments to every part of his game. Behind the plate he's just getting beat up, when I've watched him he's taken 3-4 balls in bad spots (biceps, thighs, wrists) every single game. Full season ball is just such a huge jump for a kid like him with a short HS season and limited competition. I think we'll know much more about his bat by the end of the year, in the last couple of weeks he started swinging with authority again which is a good sign, he's slowly coming around at the plate.

Yes he really does look that bad behind the plate. I'm not sure teaching defense is the easiest part of baseball, many of these guys have a life time of poor habits ingrained in them, not to mention C is the most demanding defensive position there is. Also it's not like the Brewers have a history of turning out defensively/fundamentally sound players out of the minors. The best fielders were naturals and the rest had to work hard when they got to MLB... Braun, Fielder, and Weeks come immediately to mind in that regard.

 

edit. I should add that the Brewers have also been historically bad at finding a player the proper defensive position early in their MiLB career so I'll be surprised if Coulter moves off C any time soon. One of the many reasons Reid Nichols is not one of my favorite people.

 

 

Thanks for the insight TheCrew. Your original reply had me worried that you were suggesting he didn't appear to possess the bat to play the ML levels.

[brewcrewdue80]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/potential-sellers-non-waiver-deadline-astros-marlins-brewers-white-sox-blue-jays-060613

 

You read Rosenthal's article and the listing of players in it. I may be a Homer but doesn't it come off as they having the best of the lot? No mentioning of Aoki in it and I can't really find anything mentioning Aoki in a trade rumor/proposal. Gives me the thinking he's either not really wanted or not available from those in the know.

Our Relievers really are going to be coveted and the question is what do wanted relievers fetch in trade?

 

I think it's going to be a given ARam plus 1 of our closers to LAD.

Detroit? Closer issues. Can you pry away Leftys Adam Wilk/Casey Crosby?

 

Oddly, while Hart isn't close to playing, you can still read buzz on taking the risk on him. Yankees especially.

 

Anyone else seen any other trade ideas posted out there for our players?

[paul253]

Is there ANY chance we could pry Castellanos away from Detroit? Talk about your third basemen of the future.

[brewcrewdue80]

Is there ANY chance we could pry Castellanos away from Detroit? Talk about your third basemen of the future.

 

Based on the makeup of their team no. Unless we were maybe dangling Braun in trade. Detroit is such a complete team it really is a wonder they don't have a better record....oh wait the closer part. 6 walkoff losses. But obviously one of our closers aren't worth their #1 prospect. The future is a long term bright place for Detroit. Prince,Miggy,Verlander,Sherzer, this better in the AL Sanchez character, Jackson,Castellanos,Garcia Helluva core to have to patch around.

[LouisEly]

Adam Wilk was released by the Tigers in December and his contract sold to a team in Korea.

 

Looking at his minor league numbers, this makes no sense. 25 years old, LHP, career WHIP of 1.020, almost equal OPS vs RH and LH batters... not a strikeout pitcher, but only 73 BB in 493 career innings. There has to be more here - anyone know what/why?

[monty57]

No mentioning of Aoki in it and I can't really find anything mentioning Aoki in a trade rumor/proposal. Gives me the thinking he's either not really wanted or not available from those in the know.

 

Just a guess, but Melvin may want to see how the Braun situation plays out before he looks to trade an OF. Not how I'd do it, but the way the Brewers are run, I could see them not wanting to play an OF of Davis, Gomez/Aoki, Schafer. If Braun is healthy and doesn't get suspended, I'd like to think one of Aoki/Gomez (probably Aoki) would be shopped. I know it's not Melvin's m.o. to trade someone with more than one year of "team control" remaining, but with all the MLB-ready minor league OFs we have, I hope he makes an excpetion.

[3and2Fastball]

Unfortunately Khris Davis is only hitting .211 in AAA ball this year and might not be ready to fill in much this year. If Braun goes on the DL, it'll be interesting to see who they bring up. I'm hoping it'll be Gindl who is hitting .294 with an .880 OPS vs RHP in AAA this year

 

I still think Aoki is a strong possibility in a trade. He has plenty of value

[3and2Fastball]

Adam Wilk was released by the Tigers in December and his contract sold to a team in Korea.

 

Looking at his minor league numbers, this makes no sense. 25 years old, LHP, career WHIP of 1.020, almost equal OPS vs RH and LH batters... not a strikeout pitcher, but only 73 BB in 493 career innings. There has to be more here - anyone know what/why?

 

Tigers sold his contract to the Korean Leagues. Sure seems strange. He failed in his cup of coffee in MLB but he seems pretty young to just give up on. This article mentions that he was viewed as having "limited upside"

 

http://www.blessyouboys.com/2012/12/19/3785184/tigers-release-adam-wilk-sold-korean-baseball-league-hot-stove-2012

[monty57]

Unfortunately Khris Davis is only hitting .211 in AAA ball this year and might not be ready to fill in much this year. If Braun goes on the DL, it'll be interesting to see who they bring up. I'm hoping it'll be Gindl who is hitting .294 with an .880 OPS vs RHP in AAA this year

 

I still think Aoki is a strong possibility in a trade. He has plenty of value

 

I agree that Aoki makes sense to trade (probably the biggest trade chip that may actually get traded). I'm not as concerned as to which prospects would get the call when and if it would happen. I'm more concerned that they use the prospects, and don't add a veteran into the trade to fill the roster spot for the rest of the year, or that they hold onto both Aoki and Gomez because of fear of the "unproven." The second half of this season should be a good time to let some of our prospects get some MLB experience and hopefully some of them will shine.

 

As to Braun, at this point I'd put him on the DL. It sounds like he continues to aggravate it by swinging, so I'd just tell him to take two weeks completely off. In a close race, I could understand them not wanting to potentially miss a game or two of Braun. They're not in a close race, so the main goal is to make sure he's healthy. Hopefully it's something minor and two weeks will "cure" him, but if not, do whatever it needs. He's a lifetime Brewer, so I want to make sure he's 100% going into the future.

[brewcrewdue80]

One idea just found for trade. It's within division so it could be a hard sell but:

Pittsburgh trades Alen Hanson for Aoki.

Hanson would fit the 2-3years from now player Melvin seeks. It sounds like Hanson would be a SS easily converted to 2b.

I think this trade would push Pitt. over the top to complete their playoff run and not falter down the stretch. An Aoki/Tabata Platoon if need be but really mostly Aoki to bat atop the order ahead of Marte/McCutchen.

Cole is their Staying power for pitching, Aoki is their staying power for hitting.

If I were Melvin, considering the ending of Pittsburgh's 20+years of under .500 ball on the line with Playoff implications, I'd try hard to take advantage of that fact. It wouldn't be a desperate move for Pitt.,Aoki a sound affordable bat for them. But the Brewers collect an impact bat for the future to pair with Segura for a nice MI combination.

And when you look at oh, we traded a player within division argument, well Aoki at 31, 33 in 2 years you question really what effect it has on the Brewers when building for 2years from now and on.

I love Aoki, but I feel he has limitations. I think it wouldn't take much of a decrease in his bat for him to suddenly be ineffective as a RF. See Ichiro's falloff.

Could we sell Aoki to Pitt for Hansen?

[paul253]

I like Hanson but if the Brewers are going to make a trade with Pitt I'd like to see them go for Heredia. He's still young but Milwaukee desperately needs to upgrade their pitching prospects. I'd definitely settle for Hanson though. I wonder if Pitt is looking for an upgrade at 3B. Alvarez has 14 HR and 38 rbi but is only hitting .214 with a .281 OBP.

 

Ramirez, Gindl and $10 million for Heredia and Hansen? These two would immediately become top 5 prospects, maybe top three prospects along with Nelson.

[brewcrewdue80]

Gotta believe Ramirez is too expensive for Pitt. And Gindl joining them doesn't help them today. Playoffs are about performing this year ajd Aoki is who it will cost. My friend who's a Pitt fan said to me they have more OF prospects than MI prospects and Hanson is likely not on the trade block. So is Aoki worth Heredia?

 

The other trade idea that should be considered is Gomez. With the Mets.

Asking for 1 of Wheeler or Syndergaard and 1 of either Flores or Montero. Throw in Estrada and Kentrail Davis you take both Montero and Flores.

[ninja33]

Even if the Mets were good right now, they wouldn't trade Zack Wheeler. But especially considering they are 13 games under .500, why in the world would they be trading prospects?

[JohnBriggs12]

No mentioning of Aoki in it and I can't really find anything mentioning Aoki in a trade rumor/proposal. Gives me the thinking he's either not really wanted or not available from those in the know.

 

Just a guess, but Melvin may want to see how the Braun situation plays out before he looks to trade an OF. Not how I'd do it, but the way the Brewers are run, I could see them not wanting to play an OF of Davis, Gomez/Aoki, Schafer. If Braun is healthy and doesn't get suspended, I'd like to think one of Aoki/Gomez (probably Aoki) would be shopped. I know it's not Melvin's m.o. to trade someone with more than one year of "team control" remaining, but with all the MLB-ready minor league OFs we have, I hope he makes an excpetion.

 

That and the fact that guys like Rosenthal don't really dig all that deep. They look at contracts/team control parameters and not really who makes the most sense to deal. They also talk to GM's looking for players who are looking at the same lists Aoki's name won't pop up on either point. That doesn't mean at some point his name won't get floated out there.

[JohnBriggs12]

Unfortunately Khris Davis is only hitting .211 in AAA ball this year and might not be ready to fill in much this year. If Braun goes on the DL, it'll be interesting to see who they bring up. I'm hoping it'll be Gindl who is hitting .294 with an .880 OPS vs RHP in AAA this year

 

I still think Aoki is a strong possibility in a trade. He has plenty of value

 

Gindl is the much more logical choice to take Schafer's role as 4th OF. His numbers .274/.341/.456 have been on the rise.

[gregmag]

FWIW:

 

I think RoCo's analysis above makes a lot of sense. One thing I disagree about is that trading Lohse in the first year of his deal would be bad precedent for future free agent signings. First, he wasn't in demand; it wasn't like we won a huge bidding war for him. Second, FA's get how the biz works. If you can negotiate a no-trade clause, fine, but if not, you're fair game. Third, players generally like moving from losing teams to winning teams. Fourth (half-joking), we shouldn't rely on signing FAs anyway.

 

Oddly, I don't take quite the same view of Gomez. I feel like we made a different sort of commitment in extending one of our own guys. But I admit that distinction makes little sense; mainly I just don't love the idea of trading him. He's still young and likely to age well. He actually has some chance to be part of our next good team. But hey, if somebody offers us the moon . . .

 

I would trade anybody in the bullpen in a heartbeat if it brings back any kind of useful prospect. I would put some money on the table to help get a good return for Ramirez, to "un-backload" his contract to some extent. But if he continues to play at his established level, he's worth $16m next year to a contender that needs a 3b. I'm praying for Hart's return, because if he can play, he has real value.

 

I don't know what to think about Aoki and Gallardo. I think Gallardo will make adjustments, and RoCo's right that we shouldn't sell low. Also, even a bad team can benefit in meaningful ways by having a rotation anchor. I think a guy like that takes pressure off the rest of the staff, which is important if you're trying to break in young guys. I think Aoki, like Gomez, has a chance to stay relevant. I wouldn't push to trade these guys while they're still reasonably priced.

 

Some of this depends on available replacements. If we think Kentrail Davis is for real, that makes it a lot easier to trade Aoki, because then we have Kentrail, Khris (who will bounce back), Schafer, and Gindl to work with.

[brewcrewdue80]

Even if the Mets were good right now, they wouldn't trade Zack Wheeler. But especially considering they are 13 games under .500, why in the world would they be trading prospects?

 

The Mets have stated their want for a cornerstone OF.

It appears off a Mets board their interest is in Austin Jackson,Peter Bourjos, Shin Soo Choo, Willingham, and Joyce. Ozuna,Carlos Gonzalez, and Stanton are dreaming scenarios as likely Jackson is too but keeping that in mind.

 

Someone mentioned Ethier but again that is a guy making 20+mil a season.

Thus enter Carlos Gomez imo. If the GM was alert, he'd make my offer.

 

As Monty has said over and over, trade your position of depth(OF) for a position of Need...SP. Mets want OF. Have SP.

Yes both teams are out of the race and I say to that so? If the Brewers could trade away Gomez for Wheeler plus either Syndergaard or Montero then clearly that opens the scenario to trading away Gallardo or Lohse among other SPs...Estrada/Narveson. As well as asking for other trading prospects in those deals.

Or meanwhile we can go the route of trading away our lesser assets for lesser prospects at Pitching meaning non-Aces #2 upsides. Decide that Gomez is tradable in the offseason, and then are left asking potentially for the positions of need we still have to fill, say 3b or getting their Ace Wheeler with Montero but throwing away a guy or two we got in our trade deadline deals because we'd be overstocked at pitching then....

Or trade Gomez get our Aces because of it. Focus elsewhere in trade with our lesser assets. Maybe now you snag a guy like Schoop from Baltimore rather than anyone less in their system. Rather than ask for Zach Lee you get Joc Pederson or Corey Seager plus.

It's just a deal that could change everything. It would likely be Syndergaard and Montero for Gomez since Wheeler is starting if done before offseason. Still, you get your Ace Pitchers that you're looking for maybe better than what you would get talking to any other team.

 

The idea is strictly on the Mets want an OF. And rather than letting some other team sell an OF to them we are proactive to give them one they should desire more at a higher price. What if the Mets talk to the Dodgers and take Ethier and Pederson from them? for say Flores and Syndergaard? End result being Dodgers no longer need Aramis and killing 2 trade pieces for us for needed returns?

[logan82]

Are you talking about the Mets trading for Gomez, cause that would be funny.