Sellers at the Trade Deadline [Designated 2013 General Brewers Trade Rumor/Idea Thread (please see post #162)]

[LouisEly]

I'm one of those who automatically rejects trading Braun because he is the face of the franchise. I just don't see Mark A. approving that trade as Braun is the type of guy that could generate money for him well after Braun is retired. The 1982 Brewers have been milked to death for 30 years and they will do the same with Braun since Fielder left. It would also kill attendance short term and in the end just a bad business decision. 111 million for ages 32-37 scare me a bit but even then he will still be selling tickets and merchandise. Even with the long term deal he has currently they will probably end up extending him again so that he gets 3000 hits as a Brewer.

 

This. Braun generates a lot of revenue and value for the organization that offsets much of his salary. He is an incredible bargain. Assuming that the average fan spends $50/game (ticket, parking, concessions, souvenirs), a drop in attendance from 2.8M to 2M represents a drop of $40M in revenue. A drop in attendance to Marlins attendance levels (1.4M) equals a drop of $70M in revenue.

[Invader3K]

My only untouchables would be Braun, Segura, and possibly Lucroy. Everyone else would be on the table at this point. I just wouldn't be looking to trade people just to trade them. I want back prospects that can be ready in 1-2 years to contribute at the big league level. I think with the right trades, we could look at a short term rebuild rather than one taking 4-5 years as some have posited.

 

I really hope that if this team doesn't go on a major run in the next 2-3 weeks (like winning 10 of the next 15 games or so) that Doug Melvin really starts looking to deal. No point until waiting 'til the last week of July with how this team has performed.

[trwi7]

I want the best prospects. If they happen to be ready in 1-2 years, that's great but I don't want to pass on a potentially more talented player because he won't be ready in 1-2 years.

[brewcrewdue80]

I find it hard to think attendence would drop to 1.4mil a season. Hasn't happened since 1997. Miller Park's lowest is 1.7mil in 2003 after the club's 1 and only 100loss season. The following year it was 2mil+ then 2.2mil when the cycle from the bottom of the rebuild came to an end and Mark A bought the team. Seems to me the bottom is around 2mil but really with 2.2-2.3mil more likely.

I guess, it just bothers me someone would think 1.4mil attendence like the Miami Marlins' (FAKE) pace could be in the future for a Milwaukee Fan Base. This comes from living in Miami, attending Heat,Marlin, and Orange Bowl games. That city has the Worst Fake Fan Base there is! the Heat before Lebron, with Shaq would black out their entire top bowl of seats to cover the lack of filled seats. Then there's the Marlins games. let me tell you. High School Football teams (in WI mind you) can outdraw them! The year before the stadium opened I'd say 2500-3300 fans were in attendence. Announced attendence was about 10k. You take the first 3 sections behind home plate and any other section in the stadium had maybe a couple dozen in them. I've got pictures of it. Flat out could hear the conversations around you for an entire game! No One cares about Baseball down there. Having just checked, their current 17,000 avg. has to be a spoof like the game I was at. Likely 7500 with announced 17,000.

I've never been to a Miller Park game where attendence was under 17,000 once. And checking currently the lowest Attended game this season is 21,255 Monday April 29th. That averages above 1.7mil on it's own.

For perspective. The last home game to draw under 20,000 was May 31, 2007 vs.....Florida. It was 17,704. There was 1 and only one home game to draw under 17,000 that year vs. Pittsburgh May 3 at 15,602.

Miller Park is a fun experience. For 20somethings it's a thing to do for fun. Whether you tailgate before the game. Or ride a shuttle from a downtown bar before taking the shuttle back and continuing the night out at downtown bars. There's a lot of years built in to doing that now that it would take a Selig run Baseball era to really make a under 1.5mil attendence season even seem possible. Mark A. isn't anywhere near the scum Selig is/was. And I appologize to Mark A. for even using the word Scum in the same sentence as his name.

Now, back on to Braun's impact. He's a Franchise named player. Someone posted earlier he's leaving the impression that his legacy here will turn out like Robin Yount. That is basically what would have to come back in return in trade for Braun. Robin Yount Skills with a legacy to stay here more than a dozen years. How many players out there can even remotely offer that in the prospect ranks? I think none currently. Last year Trout/Harper/ and Manny Machado give me that kind of ethusiasm of 12years or more Legacy within 1 team type player. All Stars/MVP ability. Where in what? Year 7 for Ryan Braun. He should be untouchable for another 5years before any consideration of trading him. Or the Next Ryan Braun/Robin Yount had better the on our receiving end in that deal.

[monkeyman343434]

If the Brewers would actually entertain the idea of dealing Braun, who says no to this deal:

 

Boston receives : Ryan Braun

 

Milwaukee receives: Xander Bogaerts, Garin Cecchini, Matt Barnes, Jonny Gomes, Mike Carp

 

?

[nate82]

If the Brewers would actually entertain the idea of dealing Braun, who says no to this deal:

 

Boston receives : Ryan Braun

 

Milwaukee receives: Xander Bogaerts, Garin Cecchini, Matt Barnes, Jonny Gomes, Mike Carp

 

?

 

I would as Carp and Gomes are worth nothing. As much as I like Cecchini he is an average at best MLB 3B. Barnes and Bogaerts are the only two good players the Brewers would receive in this trade scenario. Definitely not enough for Braun. The Pirates would be more likely as they have more talent to give up.

[Bombers]

Ryan Braun should be untouchable for another 5years before any consideration of trading him. Or the Next Ryan Braun/Robin Yount had better the on our receiving end in that deal.

I agree with this. Unless some team is stupid enough to give us 2 top 10 rated MiLB pitchers. It is idiotic to think trading Braun is a good idea. I want no part of it. He will continue to be a 300 hitter for 6+ years.

 

If we do a correct rebuild we could be back in contention in 2-3 years. Trade Hart this year (hopefully he comes back and hits the cover off the ball) ... Trade Ramirez next year and maybe Lohse. Weeks walks. The trades and our current system + draft picks over the next 2 years hopefuly gives us something. In the end take Braun, Gomez, Segura and Lucroy and build a new team around them for the 2015 season. This year is lost and next year probably is too.

[3and2Fastball]

Braun has a Clause in his Contract in which he would have to approve any trades. He has investments in Wisconsin with restaurants/whatnot and is not likely to approve trades. And I seriously doubt Mark A would trade him

 

Hell, alot of us are finding it hard to believe that Mark A would even be cool with trading Gallardo/Hart/Ramirez. Trading Braun just ain't gonna happen

[TooLiveBrew]

Unless some team is stupid enough to give us 2 top 10 rated MiLB pitchers. It is idiotic to think trading Braun is a good idea.

While I agree that it's unlikely that kind of deal will occur, I certainly don't think it's idiotic to entertain the notion of potentially trading any player. I mean, in Braun, a team would be netting one of the top 5(?) hitters in the game, who happens to be signed for essentially the rest of his career at really reasonable rates. You never know what some GM out there might be willing to part with to add him.

 

I understand where you're coming from (& agree it's unlikely), but I don't think calling the idea "idiotic" is really productive. If a team offered a package loaded with blue-chip prospects, hitting or pitching, the Brewers might wind up being idiotic for not moving Braun. It's certainly an idea worth disussing in this forum.

[3and2Fastball]

Unless some team is stupid enough to give us 2 top 10 rated MiLB pitchers. It is idiotic to think trading Braun is a good idea.

While I agree that it's unlikely that kind of deal will occur, I certainly don't think it's idiotic to entertain the notion of potentially trading any player. I mean, in Braun, a team would be netting one of the top 5(?) hitters in the game, who happens to be signed for essentially the rest of his career at really reasonable rates. You never know what some GM out there might be willing to part with to add him.

 

I'd take Strasburg & Harper for Braun. 3 years of Strasburg plus 5 of Harper (before they each go join the Yankees) would be cool

 

But no way would the Nationals do that

[jackailius]

I don't know if i would make that trade... they would have to throw in another top guy like Rendon. I just don't think we would be a top contender in the 3 years of strausburg unless you were looking at him to flip him for 2 top level pitching prospects, then i would for harper, strasberg and Rendon. I just can't see it happening though. I think trading Braun away itself would have most of the state up in arms as much as the Marlins blowup of last year.

[trwi7]

I don't know if i would make that trade...

 

What?!?!? A 20 (21?) year old already producing at the same level as Braun plus an ace and the Nationals would have to add more?!?!

[jackailius]

the number of years between the two of them are still the same as how long we have braun signed based on the 3 yrs for stras and 5 yrs for harper. Stras already had tommy once so the possiblity of something over the next 3 yrs happening is fair and while harper is good i don't think he is as good as braun and i just kinda cant stand his cockiness. it also takes our leader away and replaces it with a 21 yr old. personally, my preference is braun to those 2. i guess it is also based on the fact that i don't know even with them if we are real players in the next 3 yrs and if we aren't what would the point of that particular deal be?

[paul253]

I think after watching this team even casual fans can get behind trading people. But if we trade Braun those fans are gone. I am for blowing up this team as much as anyone but you don't trade Braun Segura or Lucroy. Braun is a legitimate superstar. An all-star every year. Former MVP. Sure thing Hall-of-Famer. Segura and Lucroy are young players who have already enjoyed success at probably the two hardest positions (other than pitcher) to find players at. Awhile ago I made a list of all the catchers the Brewers have thrown out there before Lucroy (guys like Raul Casanova, Henry Blanco, Jason Kendall, and Eddy Perez). No way do you go back to something like that by trading Lucroy, especially now when his value is down a bit. And Segura....I don't think I even need to explain him.

 

I think the Brewers could get a decent return for Lohse and Gallardo. I think we should keep Hart and offer him a QO. I think we should explore trading Aoki, Ramirez, and Gomez. And I think we should trade Weeks to anyone who is willing to take his contract. Let Schafer play in CF. Let Gennett play 2nd. And for pete's sake starting draft something other than outfielders!

[brewcrewdue80]

Unless some team is stupid enough to give us 2 top 10 rated MiLB pitchers. It is idiotic to think trading Braun is a good idea.

While I agree that it's unlikely that kind of deal will occur, I certainly don't think it's idiotic to entertain the notion of potentially trading any player. I mean, in Braun, a team would be netting one of the top 5(?) hitters in the game, who happens to be signed for essentially the rest of his career at really reasonable rates. You never know what some GM out there might be willing to part with to add him.

 

I'd take Strasburg & Harper for Braun. 3 years of Strasburg plus 5 of Harper (before they each go join the Yankees) would be cool

 

But no way would the Nationals do that

 

 

I don't think the Nationals would take Braun for Harper Straight up. In fact, Harper may be as good as Braun today. So it's an even trade but in 2-4 years? Harper becomes the better of the two.

Now, Strasburg/Rendon for Braun I think they'd entertain. Seeing as Strasburg isn't flat lights out like he was his rookie campaign, I feel we've already seen the best from him. Huge Injury concerns with Strasburg, I think Clearly Braun becomes a prize to hang on to for them. Rendon then evens out the trade for both teams. Brewers have a much needed 3b and SP. I'd imagine Davis/Gomez share LF with Schafer at CF depending who's hotter at the plate in Schafer/Davis.

 

And I'd do that trade. I don't think the team loses fans just for the fact Strasburg is the elite kind of Pitcher fans go to games to witness. Rendon is a 6th pick so you know he's to be a Franchise Player. He'll make fans quickly forget Braun with Strasburg.

 

Nats wont do it though. They will get some kind of incredible talent elsewhere for him. Man Ryan Zimmerman/Anthony Rendon as your backup what a luxury!

[trwi7]

I don't know why people keep putting Lucroy on their untouchables list. Yes I know we don't have anyone to replace him and yes he's signed for cheap for a while but other than last year he's been a fairly mediocre player, even as a catcher. Never topped 1.4 WAR. 5.4 WAR in his career in 1300 plate appearances, 2.2 WAR in 930 excluding his 2012 (which was great but he played over his head imo). He's more like a .700 OPS catcher with average defense to me. That's not a player that should be untouchable. He's not that young either, he's going to be 27 in a couple of weeks. Certainly not old but he's not a 23 year old that still has upside.

 

If someone makes a good offer, I would trade him.

[brewcrewdue80]

Trwi7 ^^^

 

I was thinking the same thing. In that we have Maldanado with Coulter in the pipelines. And mediocre 1yr veteran Catchers always out there. I'll have to check out rosters of playoff likely teams to see any kind of match.

With all of us on the reality we're non-contenders til 2015 at the earliest, that's the end of the Lucroy era beginning of the Coulter era if projections go right. So why not?

[paul253]

In that we have Maldanado with Coulter in the pipelines.

 

Maldonado was ok last season but he's really nothing special. Coulter is struggling in Low A ball right now. Even if he does live up to expectations you take Melvin's one level a year approach and Coulter wouldn't be here until 2017 or so.

 

And mediocre 1yr veteran Catchers always out there.

 

There is a reason mediocre 1 year veterans catchers are always out there. I have zero interest in throwing guys like Eddie Perez or Mike Rivera out there again.

[3and2Fastball]

In terms of Lucroy, it just really depends on what is offered. Coulter is unlikely to ever be an MLB catcher. He'll probably play a different position if he can get his hitting together enough to even play MLB. He's only 19 years old so time will tell.

 

Maldonado can certainly handle being a starting MLB catcher. And I say that with the knowledge that he is hitting .172 in the small sample of this season

 

But anyways, Lucroy wouldn't be one of the main guys I'd trade. I would trade:

 

Ramirez, Gallardo, Hart, Lohse, Aoki, Weeks (even just for salary relief), Axford, K-Rod, Henderson

[brewcrewdue80]

In that we have Maldanado with Coulter in the pipelines.

 

Maldonado was ok last season but he's really nothing special. Coulter is struggling in Low A ball right now. Even if he does live up to expectations you take Melvin's one level a year approach and Coulter wouldn't be here until 2017 or so.

 

And mediocre 1yr veteran Catchers always out there.

 

There is a reason mediocre 1 year veterans catchers are always out there. I have zero interest in throwing guys like Eddie Perez or Mike Rivera out there again.

 

 

Well Maldanado is serviceable as our starting catcher in a rebuild mode for two more seasons is what I meant with my thought. I know he's not special/lighting it up at the plate. I think more regular time ABs he'd bat better, talking .230-.245 mind you not high expectations or anything. The 1yr mediocre vet would be his backup/safety in case of injury.

And I'm also only agreeable to the trade of Lucroy if it was bringing a talent that improves the team long term moreso than keeping him. Or, vs what the team loses in the dropoff of production from Lucroy to Maldanado. But what do you get for a good Catcher? I doubt a #3 Pitcher workhorse type pitcher would be made available in return for Lucroy. Obviously, if an offer like that #3 pitcher for Lucroy, that represents quite an improvement in our staff over losing Lucroy to Maldanado so I'd consider that a good deal.

 

3and2:

Why do you believe Coulter cannot become a Catcher? Just glancing at his stats...He's improved quite a bit at Caught Stealing 16% to 34%. Yeah I see his Fielding is at .962 and quite a number of Passed Balls but again, he's 19 and that gives him time to grow. I'd compare half seasons this year to see if there's improvement or stagnant/worsening ability before already conceeding his liklihood to remain at Catcher.

[TheCrew07]

It's fairly obvious when you watch Coulter that he's miles away from being a serviceable catcher. His only plus asset behind the plate is his arm. Coulter has been discussed on numerous occasions on the MiLB forum.

[craigharmann]

It seems like Jon Paul Morosi is really trying to get ARam traded, based on tweets last night and today. That would be good if Doug would listen and get a decent return!

[DuWayne Steurer]

Braun - off the table unless you're completely, completely blown away. However, as others have said, one team might not have enough chips to pull it off. Also, as a few others have pointed out, Braun's value to the Brewers extends well beyond what he does on the field.

 

Gomez - while I do expect his offense to regress, I'm not at all a fan of seeing guys sign extensions, and then turning around and trading them. He signed the extension because he wants to be here, and then we trade him less than a full season later? I know that the players realize and understand the 'it's a business' side of things, but trading a guy having an all star caliber season in the prime age-seasons of his career after signing a team friendly contract is sending a bad message (IMO of course) to other players. Also, I'm simply not sold on Logan Schafer being a starting caliber offensive performer.

 

Gallardo - Classic example of sell-low. While the Brewers might not be good again during Gallardo's contract, the truth is the value they get back for him is at it's lowest right now. I'd still not be opposed to trading him, especially if they could get a few younger arms, or even one top-40 arm. Their best bet might be to ride him out until the off-season and see if he regains any of his form or velocity.

 

Henderson - Here's where they might score some good value, especially as they get closer to the trade deadline.

 

K-Rod - Love to see them turn around and flip K-Rod to a team needing a closer or a setup guy close to the deadline. He's not over-priced, and he has a proven track record.

 

A-Ram - I think this is a tough one. His contract makes it tough, and I don't want to see the Brewers be one of those teams paying guys to play for other teams. This isn't a discussion of "I wish they hadn't signed him". They did, and that part is no longer debatable. It is what it is. The truth is, the Brewers have nobody waiting in the wings to play 3rd base, so letting A-Ram play out the string right now isn't the worst thing in the world, unless someone says "we need a 3rd sacker, and we'll pay him"

 

Weeks - Untradeable. Just bury him on the bench. Rather pay him to not play than pay him to play for another team.

 

Hart - Untradeable at this point. Unless he comes back and gets ridiculously hot.

 

Aoki - I'm really torn here. I like watching the guy play, and he's signed to a super-team friendly contract. That being said, he just doesn't profile offensively as a right fielder, and he's super streaky at the plate (of course, that might just be my perception as well)

 

Lucroy - Team friendly contract, and there's nobody behind him. Not untouchable, but no reason to move him really.

 

Lohse - Also torn on this one. Wasn't a fan of the signing. At all. That being said, it happened, and we have to move on. I don't want him to be a Brewer, but at the same time, I don't want to see us signing FA's, and trading them 3-4 months later. Sends a bad sign to future potential signees.

 

Segura - Off the table.

[logan82]

I don't believe in the whole "Braun's value extends beyond what he does on the field" stuff. If the team wins people will show up at the park to watch and buy merchandise. If they lose the Brewers are losing they won't. Even casual fans are smart enough to understand trading away a good player for young prospects if you are honest and explain it to them.

[homer]

I wouldn't call Lucroy untouchable but for those suggesting he be traded did you see who the Brewers trotted out there for 20 years prior to his arrival? Catchers are extremely hard to come by.