The Ron Roenicke Thread

[logan82]

Lohse is looking like a worse and worse move by the day. Unless he gets traded and brings something decent back, I think the signing is a huge fail.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Lohse is looking like a worse and worse move by the day. Unless he gets traded and brings something decent back, I think the signing is a huge fail.

 

Not at all. Right now he's the best starting pitcher we have on the team to this point in time.

[logan82]

Lohse is looking like a worse and worse move by the day. Unless he gets traded and brings something decent back, I think the signing is a huge fail.

 

Not at all. Right now he's the best starting pitcher we have on the team to this point in time.

The best starting pitcher on a non-playoff team. Signing him was a huge waste of resources. It doesn't pay to sign guys like him if we are going to be an average team.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Lohse is looking like a worse and worse move by the day. Unless he gets traded and brings something decent back, I think the signing is a huge fail.

 

Not at all. Right now he's the best starting pitcher we have on the team to this point in time.

The best starting pitcher on a non-playoff team. Signing him was a huge waste of resources. It doesn't pay to sign guys like him if we are going to be an average team.

 

The only reason why we are an average team is because we don't have the starting pitching rotation that's good enough. We have what will likely be the top offense in the NL or baseball 2 seasons in a row. It's an elite offense. The fact that we have Lohse is the 1 reason why this team has a good shot at contending next year, and what little hope we have this year of contending. The Brewers can sacrifice some of their offense to improve there pitching to the point of being a contender. It's about time they do this.

[logan82]

Not at all. Right now he's the best starting pitcher we have on the team to this point in time.

The best starting pitcher on a non-playoff team. Signing him was a huge waste of resources. It doesn't pay to sign guys like him if we are going to be an average team.

 

The only reason why we are an average team is because we don't have the starting pitching rotation that's good enough. We have what will likely be the top offense in the NL or baseball 2 seasons in a row. It's an elite offense. The fact that we have Lohse is the 1 reason why this team has a good shot at contending next year, and what little hope we have this year of contending. The Brewers can sacrifice some of their offense to improve there pitching to the point of being a contender. It's about time they do this.

We knew we didn't have a good pitching team. There is very little chance that changes either next year or the year after. Lohse alone will not change that. That is why it was a waste to sign Lohse.

[PrinceFielderx1]

logan,

 

I don't know how you can possibly say with 100% confidence that the Brewers can't get the pitching to contend when they have all of this excess offense. My advice to you is too keep an open mind.

[logan82]

logan,

 

I don't know how you can possibly say with 100% confidence that the Brewers can't get the pitching to contend when they have all of this excess offense. My advice to you is too keep an open mind.

and I think you need to explain who we can trade that will actually bring back decent pitching that will help in the next 2 years. None of the guys who could bring back anything decent are gong to be traded.(Braun, Segura, Gomez) Just not what Melvin does.

[Warning Track Power]

I am so sick of this team and its general lack of fire and leadership that I see. Many made fun of the Diamondbacks for the Justin Upton trade, me included, and while I still wouldn't have made that deal, I do love the players they have assembled on that team for their general passion for the game. Combine that with a fiery and passionate leader/manager like Kirk Gibson and you have a team that may not win the World Series but will bring it every night and you will love to root for even when they slump. I'm tired of Zombie Roenicke as the manager. Like him as a person. Hate him as a manager. No passion and his in game management leaves much to be desired.

[PrinceFielderx1]

logan,

 

I don't know how you can possibly say with 100% confidence that the Brewers can't get the pitching to contend when they have all of this excess offense. My advice to you is too keep an open mind.

and I think you need to explain who we can trade that will actually bring back decent pitching that will help in the next 2 years. None of the guys who could bring back anything decent are gong to be traded.(Braun, Segura, Gomez) Just not what Melvin does.

 

You don't know how these players will be doing come July, so again I'd keep an open mind.

[The stache]

 

Well, in terms of dumbest things you've ever seen a manager do, I'd say Kotsay's start in CF was much worse.

 

Hmm. You might just have me there, thebruce44. Touche.

 

I thought initially having him start in right and sitting Corey for the whole game was worse, but upon further review, starting him in center was a boatload of fail.

[adambr2]

Average team? We look decidedly below average and have the W/L record to back it up.

 

If we were a contender, the Lohse signing is great, but it's just a waste if we're not even a .500 team.

[logan82]

Average team? We look decidedly below average and have the W/L record to back it up.

 

If we were a contender, the Lohse signing is great, but it's just a waste if we're not even a .500 team.

I think the talent is around a .500 team. They are underachieving this year.

[adambr2]

When I listen to Mike McCarthy speak about the Packers, I feel like he has a strong knowledge of the game, gameplanning, and the capabilities of his players.

 

When I listen to Roenicke speak about the Brewers, I count how many players' names he adds 'ie' or 'y' to.

[The stache]

Average team? We look decidedly below average and have the W/L record to back it up.

 

If we were a contender, the Lohse signing is great, but it's just a waste if we're not even a .500 team.

I think the talent is around a .500 team. They are underachieving this year.

 

Our starting rotation is nowhere near average. Nor is our bullpen.

[The stache]

We have now had stretches where we went 2-8, and 2-13.

[adambr2]

Average team? We look decidedly below average and have the W/L record to back it up.

 

If we were a contender, the Lohse signing is great, but it's just a waste if we're not even a .500 team.

I think the talent is around a .500 team. They are underachieving this year.

 

Our starting rotation is nowhere near average. Nor is our bullpen.

 

It isn't but probably should be. Lohse was a Cy Young contender last year and Gallardo is an All-Star starter. Peralta supposedly has all this potential.

 

Give the Cardinals the same starting 5 and I bet the rotation is average or above average. And I'm not joking.

[logan82]

Average team? We look decidedly below average and have the W/L record to back it up.

 

If we were a contender, the Lohse signing is great, but it's just a waste if we're not even a .500 team.

I think the talent is around a .500 team. They are underachieving this year.

 

Our starting rotation is nowhere near average. Nor is our bullpen.

The bullpen probably isn't very good. The starting rotation is nowhere near as bad as they have performed. Talent ≠ results. In baseball you can do everything right and still get bad results especially over a month and a half time.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Take out Axford and Fiers, and our bullpen is much better. I don't buy that the bullpen is a problem. It's only a problem when RR keeps trotting out those two, who at this point shouldn't be on the team.

[RockCoCougars]

Foolish bullpen decisions aside, the problem with this team lies more in their inability to execute in clutch situations than the manager. The hitting and pitching are both noticeably worse with men on base. In particular, it's a crime that they haven't been able to score more runs considering the seasons that both Segura and Aoki have had at the top of the order.

[TooLiveBrew]

Foolish bullpen decisions aside, the problem with this team lies more in their inability to execute in clutch situations than the manager. The hitting and pitching are both noticeably worse with men on base. In particular, it's a crime that they haven't been able to score more runs considering the seasons that both Segura and Aoki have had at the top of the order.

It's interesting to look at the team splits (found here at BB-Ref.com, scroll up a tad from where the link takes you to see the top of the table). Their OPS w/RISP is actually better than NL-avg., but lower than their OPS w/no runners aboard -- typically, of course, your rates w/RISP will be better than with the bases empty. Additionally, the Brewers' OPS simply with "men on" (.709) is below league-avg. (.725), due to an anemic OPS (.667) with just a runner on 1B. Their OPS w/2 outs & RISP is also pretty bad (.641), but not too far below league-avg. (.681).

[adambr2]

Here's what I know:

 

Roenicke has a lineup that is loaded at at least half of the positions, even with 2 of them underperforming. He has an MVP and 2 others playing like MVPs, and Yuni playing over his head.

 

The bullpen has been far better than last year, so far. He also was given another piece in the rotation this year who was a Cy Young candidate last year.

 

And with all that, he has been able to muster a last place team, not even ahead of the Cubs. I'll ask Roenicke supporters - is this acceptable?

 

Yes, he has had great seasons out of Segura and Gomez so far, what we sort of expect from Braun, and a very good season from Aoki. He has also had abysmal seasons far below what anyone would have anticipated from Weeks, Lucroy, Maldonado, and Gonzalez (even though Gonzalez was supposed to be a bench player). He lost his cleanup hitter for a month (who still isn't 100%), and lost his top three 1B to serious injuries (Hart, Gamel, Green) forcing Gonzalez to play a position he shouldn't be playing; Morris and Halton haven't had seasons in AAA to suggest that they would have been much better options. I don't know that you can fault RR for the injuries that have handcuffed him in filling out the lineup, and the focus on pitching in the last five drafts has left them without much positional depth in the upper part of the farm system.

 

The bullpen has been better, but the starting pitching has been worse and starting pitching is more important. Lohse has been what we expected but Gallardo and Estrada have been worse, and we knew that the other two spots were going to be question marks. Peralta is a rookie, we didn't know if we would get the Peralta of the first half of 2012 or the second half of 2012, and maybe the league has figured out Fiers, maybe the issues with his mother's health are distracting him. As for Axford, is it RR or DM that should have made the decision to send him down to the minors?

 

His decision-making hasn't been perfect, but it goes back to who is to blame for poor performance, the manager, the player, or the GM?

 

These aren't really comparable IMO. For one, Maldonado is a bench player, and he is performing about as we expected him to as a backup catcher. It's no surprise that last year was probably the exception for him. Same with Gonzalez, even though he has still undershot expectations. Weeks and Lucroy have stunk, no doubt, but every lineup has a guy or two who have underperformed expectations. Not every lineup has 3 players playing like MVP's and 5 guys hitting over .320.

[adambr2]

Something for Roenicke supporters to consider:

 

We have a whopping 5 guys out of our 8 regular starters who are all batting at .323 or higher! That is amazing. These 5 have combined for 28 HRs. And remarkably, we are only 18th in MLB in scoring. Some of this is because of poor situational hitting. And some of it is because Roenicke's style has resulted in countless outs on the bases in all different types of situations.

 

Roenicke has completely failed to adjust his strategy to the abilities of his players. Somehow, he instead seems to expect them to adjust to his style. When you have a lineup full of guys hitting .240, I better understand the need to try to manufacture runs. When you have 5 guys hitting .323, constantly giving away outs on the bases is remarkably foolish.

 

And yet, he seems oblivious to the problem. He said himself the other day, "We're really struggling offensively, and it doesn't seem like we should be."

 

No, we should not be, Ron. You're the manager. You tell me what's going on.

[Nottso]

When you have a lineup full of guys hitting .240, I better understand the need to try to manufacture runs. When you have 5 guys hitting .323, constantly giving away outs on the bases is remarkably foolish.

 

I kinda like RR and I've been a fan of the running style of play, but this makes perfect sense.

[LouisEly]

Something for Roenicke supporters to consider:

 

We have a whopping 5 guys out of our 8 regular starters who are all batting at .323 or higher!

 

Yep, and today two of those guys failed to get any runs home when the Brewers had bases loaded with nobody out, and another guy twice couldn't get a runner home from 3B with less than two outs striking out each time.

[The stache]

I will hold Ron's feet to the fire for some of the inexplicable moves he makes. I'm not going to rehash them here, as they've been discussed already ad nauseum. But if I could find a stat for what our team is hitting with RISP for the season, I bet it would be pretty low. And that's not Ron's fault.