The Ron Roenicke Thread

[LouisEly]

I've pretty much been a defender of Roenicke, but as I'm sitting here watching Axford give up a leadoff single with a one run lead in the 8th, I've got to bash. If the Brewers lose this game, it's on the manager.

 

So a sawed off bloop single was the tipping point for you?

 

No, because Roenicke for some reason took Gonzalez out with Neil Walker coming up, who has a significantly lower OPS as a RH than LH hitter, followed by the lefty Alvarez. I realize with Gorzelanny on the DL he only has one lefty in the pen, but he only had one lefty in the pen all year last year. Would Walker have gotten a hit if he had been batting RH against Gonzalez? We don't know, but statistically it would have been less likely.

[H4P]

I'm not sure if he's trying to save egos or is just overthinking it, but he can't make adjustments when players are struggling. You can just look at his management of Axford and Weeks this year. The more they struggle, the more he plays them.

 

I'm not for constantly changing things based on a few games but looking back at some of the players he's managed, he's done this time and time again. He'll continue to do it. And he'll continue to add a Y to the guy's last name and make an excuse for them.

 

Edit...and bunty bunt bunt McBuntsalot

[brewcrewdue80]

How many different decisions can we count in tonight's game? Axford for 8th? Dumb. Pinch running Bianchi removing ARam from game with 2outs when Braun is on base ahead? Taking Henderson out after 1ip(11pitches) to put Fiers in?

 

Figaro goes 2ip 9/10. Why is he not the 8th inning guy at this point?

[Ennder]

These are really marginal things to complain about other than Axford who shouldn't be in high leverage situations. I mean Aramis probably shouldn't be playing extra innings since he isn't completely healthy and you don't want him in a situation where he has to slide at home to win the game. Henderson could have maybe gone another inning but there was no big deal taking him out either. Figaro looked good last night but he hasn't looked so good all year that he is a sure fire 8th inning guy. I mean I'd replace Axford with Figaro as the 2nd guy in the pen only because the pen stinks and there aren't many better options.

[brewcrewdue80]

These are really marginal things to complain about other than Axford who shouldn't be in high leverage situations. I mean Aramis probably shouldn't be playing extra innings since he isn't completely healthy and you don't want him in a situation where he has to slide at home to win the game. Henderson could have maybe gone another inning but there was no big deal taking him out either. Figaro looked good last night but he hasn't looked so good all year that he is a sure fire 8th inning guy. I mean I'd replace Axford with Figaro as the 2nd guy in the pen only because the pen stinks and there aren't many better options.

 

Aramis wasn't important on base. He wasn't the go-ahead run. With 2 outs, if he scores then obviously Braun scored the go ahead run and Aramis crossing the plate is just the insurance run. That's why I don't get the decision to pinch run him there. And saving him from extra inning injury risk? Really? Playing 2-3 more innings is that much of an injury risk? That's bull. This wasn't some 100 degree heat type day where hydration is a factor. Aramis should be good to go no matter how long that game lasted.

 

Yes Figaro is young but thus far what he's done is pitch a whole lot better than Axford. It was 7/16 appearances by Axford giving up at least a run in them and last night made it 8/17. So thus far based on his season, Roenicke should have felt it was 50/50 Axford would blow the 1run lead and Roenicke was lucky he didn't just completely blow up losing the game entirely.

As for Henderson vs Fiers. Considering you're going extra innings and taxing the bullpen, leaving Henderson in for another inning to save Fiers potentially for today's game as long relief would make sense no?

[Ennder]

Aramis is playing on a bad knee, there is no way you want him in a situation where he is forced into a play at the plate. If anything that was one of the smarter decisions RR has made on the season.

 

Yes leaving Henderson in makes some sense but he has 11 pitches already and he usually goes about 20-25 tops so it isn't a sure fire thing by any means. He had pitched the day before and it was his 3rd appearance in 4 days, it is really stretching things to complain about him not going 2 innings in that situation.

 

These aren't Yost like decisions where he pinch hit with a lefty against a LOOGY and it is obviously a horrible choice, or bunting in the 1st inning etc. These are really marginal situations that boil down to more second guessing by the fans than anything. If he leaves Henderson out there and he gives up runs people would be in here complaining about why he didn't go with a different RP.

[brewmann04]

Axford should not be the 8 th Ing guy and i would try Figaro he could do no worse at least until we see Krod.

[pogokat]

"Here come axford, I'm going to turn the game off" - me, every time he comes in

 

Axford shouldn't be in for high leverage situations at all, and that's on the manager

[brewcrewdue80]

Aramis is playing on a bad knee, there is no way you want him in a situation where he is forced into a play at the plate. If anything that was one of the smarter decisions RR has made on the season.

 

Then you don't send him home from 3b if theres a chance of a play at the plate. Again, his Run was only insurance he wasn't the go ahead run. And there's 2 outs. The move made no sense. It's like Roenicke drew up the automatic remove ARam idea late in the game when he gets on base but failed to recognize the use of it in a proper situation. Meaning, was he the lead run on base. With 1 out it makes sense since Braun could have been forced out and thus resulting in ARam being the lead run. But that wasn't the case. And being 2outs that also removes the factor of ARam having to maybe go in hard at 2nd base to maybe break up a double play. His force out ends the inning. So I see no injury risk with 2outs and ARam on the Base paths. It was actually the perfect scenario you could ask for, for the Brewers, in being able to leave him in the game. Roenicke didn't recognize it. You don't.

[thebruce44]

Aramis is playing on a bad knee, there is no way you want him in a situation where he is forced into a play at the plate. If anything that was one of the smarter decisions RR has made on the season.

 

Then you don't send him home from 3b if theres a chance of a play at the plate. Again, his Run was only insurance he wasn't the go ahead run. And there's 2 outs. The move made no sense. It's like Roenicke drew up the automatic remove ARam idea late in the game when he gets on base but failed to recognize the use of it in a proper situation. Meaning, was he the lead run on base. With 1 out it makes sense since Braun could have been forced out and thus resulting in ARam being the lead run. But that wasn't the case. And being 2outs that also removes the factor of ARam having to maybe go in hard at 2nd base to maybe break up a double play. His force out ends the inning. So I see no injury risk with 2outs and ARam on the Base paths. It was actually the perfect scenario you could ask for, for the Brewers, in being able to leave him in the game. Roenicke didn't recognize it. You don't.

 

NO, ALL PLAYERS MUST BE SENT HOME IF THERE IS EVEN A SLIGHT CHANCE THEY MIGHT SCORE!!!

[3and2Fastball]

I think Ron Roenicke often gets blamed for stuff that should be blamed on Doug Melvin. He doesn't have a great bullpen to work with. He can't just pitch Axford in lopsided games, as much as he'd maybe prefer to (or as much as we the fans would like him to)

 

And Melvin traded for Jean Segura and signed Braun longterm, so he's not evil incarnate either

 

Do I want the Brewers to be better than they are? Yes. But I'm not convinced that there are very many MLB managers out there who would have handled yesterday much differently.

 

It would be nice if Joe Torre or Bobby Valentine or guys like that posted on this forum and could put in their 2 cents, but that ain't gonna happen

[Ennder]

Aramis is playing on a bad knee, there is no way you want him in a situation where he is forced into a play at the plate. If anything that was one of the smarter decisions RR has made on the season.

 

Then you don't send him home from 3b if theres a chance of a play at the plate. Again, his Run was only insurance he wasn't the go ahead run. And there's 2 outs. The move made no sense. It's like Roenicke drew up the automatic remove ARam idea late in the game when he gets on base but failed to recognize the use of it in a proper situation. Meaning, was he the lead run on base. With 1 out it makes sense since Braun could have been forced out and thus resulting in ARam being the lead run. But that wasn't the case. And being 2outs that also removes the factor of ARam having to maybe go in hard at 2nd base to maybe break up a double play. His force out ends the inning. So I see no injury risk with 2outs and ARam on the Base paths. It was actually the perfect scenario you could ask for, for the Brewers, in being able to leave him in the game. Roenicke didn't recognize it. You don't.

 

This statement just makes you look silly, seriously. If this is why you think he is a bad manager you are just being ridiculous. Having a slow guy who is injured get pinch hit for late in a closer game is not some big problem.

[dlk9s]

Then you don't send him home from 3b if theres a chance of a play at the plate. Again, his Run was only insurance he wasn't the go ahead run. And there's 2 outs.

Your logic contradicts itself. Stop me if I'm missing something:

 

1) You think a one run lead in the 10th safe, since Ramirez's run would only be "insurance."

2) Pinch running for a normally slow runner coming off a knee injury is an idiotic move because the game might be extended to the 11th inning and we'd need Ramirez's bat.

 

Doesn't make sense. If you think Ramirez's run isn't important, that must be because you don't think the game will go to extras. Thus, it doesn't matter if he comes out of the game for pinch runner. At worst, RR's decision is inconsequential.

 

In reality, though, you want as many runs as possible in that inning. We all know our pitching is suspect. It would be silly to keep a usually slow Ramirez in the game with a knee that's less than 100% at that point because it means either a) Sedar won't send him if there might be a play at the plate or b) he could aggravate the knee if he has to slide into/collide with the catcher.

 

The sensible thing to do is pinch run for Ramirez to increase your chances at scoring an insurance run, thus decreasing the chances of going to another extra inning. If the pinch runner doesn't get a chance to score, there's still a good chance the game ends in the bottom of the inning, anyway.

[adambr2]

Here's what I know:

 

Roenicke has a lineup that is loaded at at least half of the positions, even with 2 of them underperforming. He has an MVP and 2 others playing like MVPs, and Yuni playinf over his head.

 

The bullpen has been far better than last year, so far. He also was given another piece in the rotation this year who was a Cy Young candidate last year.

 

And with all that, he has been able to muster a last place team, not even ahead of the Cubs. I'll ask Roenicke supporters - is this acceptable?

[brains and braun]

Never liked RRR. That said, this team sure seems streaky. It's a long season. I suspect they wind up right around .500 give or take a few. Don't like the bullpen. I expect almost every guy to bring the gas can in with him.

[The stache]

Don't you mean Ryan Braun, Prince Fielder, Yovani Gallardo and Zack Greinke took them to the NLCS? RRR had very little with our getting there, but his dumb decision had quite a lot to do with our not getting by the Cardinals. Starting Mark Kotsay in right field in game 4 over Corey Hart was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen a manager do.

 

 

Actually, Kotsay started in CF, not RF, but stupidity noted.

 

 

In game three, Kotsay started in center. In game four, he started in right field, and Corey Hart, who'd started game 3 in right, sat out.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN201110130.shtml

[torts]

Rickie Weeks with 3 more K's last night, so glad Bianchi is riding the bench

[LouisEly]

Here's what I know:

 

Roenicke has a lineup that is loaded at at least half of the positions, even with 2 of them underperforming. He has an MVP and 2 others playing like MVPs, and Yuni playing over his head.

 

The bullpen has been far better than last year, so far. He also was given another piece in the rotation this year who was a Cy Young candidate last year.

 

And with all that, he has been able to muster a last place team, not even ahead of the Cubs. I'll ask Roenicke supporters - is this acceptable?

 

Yes, he has had great seasons out of Segura and Gomez so far, what we sort of expect from Braun, and a very good season from Aoki. He has also had abysmal seasons far below what anyone would have anticipated from Weeks, Lucroy, Maldonado, and Gonzalez (even though Gonzalez was supposed to be a bench player). He lost his cleanup hitter for a month (who still isn't 100%), and lost his top three 1B to serious injuries (Hart, Gamel, Green) forcing Gonzalez to play a position he shouldn't be playing; Morris and Halton haven't had seasons in AAA to suggest that they would have been much better options. I don't know that you can fault RR for the injuries that have handcuffed him in filling out the lineup, and the focus on pitching in the last five drafts has left them without much positional depth in the upper part of the farm system.

 

The bullpen has been better, but the starting pitching has been worse and starting pitching is more important. Lohse has been what we expected but Gallardo and Estrada have been worse, and we knew that the other two spots were going to be question marks. Peralta is a rookie, we didn't know if we would get the Peralta of the first half of 2012 or the second half of 2012, and maybe the league has figured out Fiers, maybe the issues with his mother's health are distracting him. As for Axford, is it RR or DM that should have made the decision to send him down to the minors?

 

His decision-making hasn't been perfect, but it goes back to who is to blame for poor performance, the manager, the player, or the GM?

[RWeeksFan23]

Anyone else find it annoying that Roenicke typically has his long reliever pitch like an inning or so? Might seem kinda petty to complain about, but that's one of many things about his managing that annoys me, that doesn't really get talked about.

[JohnBriggs12]

Roenicke was the guy that fell in love with idea that Alex Gonzalez, a SS his entire career and coming off a major injury at age 36, was somehow a suitable option to play 1B. He is also the guy that save one game, has continued to put Weeks in the lineup day after day, often batting in key middle of the order spots.

 

The Brewers have talent, but they lack in some key areas. Situational hitting is one of them. That is killing them right now. If they aren't hitting HR, they don't score.

 

The starting pitching has been underwhelming. The supposed ace has made more news off the field than on it. The guy they surrendered their number 1 pick for looks very average. Estrada's been up and down. Peralta's throwing it well but the results don't quite reflect it. Narveson has been on the shelf. Burgos has been ok, save for one start as the 5th starter.

[Warning Track Power]

The Brewers have talent, but they lack in some key areas. Situational hitting is one of them. That is killing them right now. If they aren't hitting HR, they don't score.

Amen. How does a team that has its everyday LF, CF, RF, SS & 3B (5/8 of its everyday lineup) all hitting over .300, score a total 22 runs over the last 8 games? Yes, Weeks is hitting .190 & Lucroy is at .220, but Gomez & Segura are .350 +.

 

Being 16-23 is frustrating enough and could be relatively expected with this pitching staff. However, I would have expected a lot more 6-5 losses with this lineup than we have been seeing.

[TURBO]

Don't you mean Ryan Braun, Prince Fielder, Yovani Gallardo and Zack Greinke took them to the NLCS? RRR had very little with our getting there, but his dumb decision had quite a lot to do with our not getting by the Cardinals. Starting Mark Kotsay in right field in game 4 over Corey Hart was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen a manager do.

 

 

Actually, Kotsay started in CF, not RF, but stupidity noted.

 

 

In game three, Kotsay started in center. In game four, he started in right field, and Corey Hart, who'd started game 3 in right, sat out.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN201110130.shtml

 

Ok, I get it, the game I always think of as being the controversy was game 3 in CF when he screwed up, and cost us the game...

[thebruce44]

Don't you mean Ryan Braun, Prince Fielder, Yovani Gallardo and Zack Greinke took them to the NLCS? RRR had very little with our getting there, but his dumb decision had quite a lot to do with our not getting by the Cardinals. Starting Mark Kotsay in right field in game 4 over Corey Hart was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen a manager do.

 

 

Actually, Kotsay started in CF, not RF, but stupidity noted.

 

 

In game three, Kotsay started in center. In game four, he started in right field, and Corey Hart, who'd started game 3 in right, sat out.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN201110130.shtml

 

Well, in terms of dumbest things you've ever seen a manager do, I'd say Kotsay's start in CF was much worse.

[RightFieldCoder]

The guy they surrendered their number 1 pick for looks very average.

If 3.49 ERA, 1.8 BB/9IP, 6.1 K/9IP, and a 1.0 WAR in 8 games is average, I don't know what to say. In the 6 games he's started and we've lost, we have a total of 6 runs. Even including those games, the Brewers average 4.92 runs a game. If the Brewers had scored 4.92 runs in every one of Lohse's starts, he would be 7-1.

 

I would gladly take 5 Kyle Lohse production type pitchers.

 

On Topic, I can't wait to get a new manager. Hopefully he is hired by a new GM that can obtain those pitchers when they still have 5+ years of team control left.

[PrinceFielderx1]

I'm furious at the Brewers management thusfar. Both RR and Doug Melvin. Here's why,

 

1.) Doug Melvin and RR both know that Axford has been struggling for a couple years now prior to this season. It wasn't a secret. They chose to pay him that 5 million, when they didn't have too. So, they effectively handcuffed themselves financially to have to commit to him for an extended period of time. That was a horrible gamble that didn't have a good chance to work out. This move has cost the Brewers a few games already.

 

2.) RR clearly doesn't know how to manage a pen. After the second or third week of the season I saw enough of this bullpen to know that Figaro needed to pitch in the 8th and Henderson the 9th. RR if he would have done this this team would have at least 3 more wins right now.

 

3.) I'd like to know what expectations this Brewers management has with this starting pitching staff. We all know it's a gamble to go with 80% young pitching in the rotation to start the season, but clearly I'm sure they expected the rotation to do a little better than what they are currently doing. Something else that I just don't understand is that we all know that the Brewers offense heading into this season had offense to spare, because it was the top offense in the NL. Most knew that Segura would make it better by playing more and based off of what he did in the winter. Because the Brewers inability to develop a couple top pitchers from their system, and because they want to compete every year, why they didn't dangle Hart in the off-season to try to get pitching makes no sense. They could still do it this season if he comes back hot, but as of right now it might be too late, because they are about to be 10.5 games out after 1.5 months of play. This is a huge failure on Doug Melvin.

 

4.) The Brewers should have been thinking pitching this off-season. 2-3 total pitchers. They got Lohse thanks to Mark A, which so far is looking like a great move. However, they needed 1 more pitcher like him, and perhaps a solid number 4 SP.

 

5.) The Brewers have got to be thinking right now that they need to sacrifice some of their offense for pitching come June/July should they still be in contention. I'll also add that they need to strongly consider trading Gallardo for a big time trade for some serious pitching. Wasn't Boston interested in him? I still believe this team can contend should they get pitching, but when it comes to Gallardo, I'm just not that high on him and his contract is close to expiring, and this season would be a great time to trade him to a contender to reestablish the Brewers pitching and make this team a contender. I personally think that the Brewers can't pull off a trade for a greinke or marcum anymore, because they just don't have the prospects, so now they will need to trade their Major League talent. Thankfully they have a great offense where they can spare a player of two.

 

I don't really have a problem with how they are handling Weeks. They don't really have a choice, but a decision will need to be made soon. Axford needs to sit or be demoted to AAA. Why haven't the Brewers called up Rob Wooten? Send Axford down and bring him up.