The call up Scooter Gennett thread

[Funketown]

I should clarify that I think the .275/.325/.350 line for Gennett right now is very optimistic. I don't know a ton about his play this year, but his slash line screams to me a lot of balls finding holes and dribblers making it through the infield. His ISO's over the past three stops in the minors are .072 this season in ~130 PA's in AAA, .092 in ~600 PA's in AA, and .106 in ~600 PA's in A+.

 

Despite Weeks' struggles, I don't think it's time to bring Gennett to the big leagues. Let's see how he can do in an entire year of AAA ball and if he can be productive over the course of the entire season and maybe show a bit more power or patience, then perhaps he can be considered the eventual replacement for Weeks.

[DrugBust]

Gennett's OPS vs RHP by year:

 

2010: .807

2011: .767

2012: .759

2013: .878

 

Bring him up for a few weeks to see how he does in a platoon situation.

[Outlander]

also, weeks hgitting .181/.302/.276 or whatever he's hitting right now... getting .275/.325/.350 from gennett is BETTER.

 

Sure if you expect Weeks to continue to hit that line which would just be silly considering the track record.

Not really, what is silly is thinking old Weeks is somehow just going to appear. He is gone forever, the good numbers he put up in the past has nothing to do with the future, much more likely he is done.

[Ennder]

Not really, what is silly is thinking old Weeks is somehow just going to appear. He is gone forever, the good numbers he put up in the past has nothing to do with the future, much more likely he is done.

 

 

He may only be .728 OPS Weeks like last year but it is highly unlikely that he is now a sub .600 OPS player and any sort of reasonable projection for him has him over the .675 line that people think is Gennett's upside. A guy struggles for 20 games and you decide it is more likely he is just done than that he will regress towards his norm? I mean seriously if you really believe this you need to look at player splits more, players have cruddy 20-30 game stretches all the time and it is very rare that they are the new level for a player. At age 30+ players do decline but it isn't common that they fall off a cliff.

[DrugBust]

Do you think Gennett's .675 line is his upside if he's only hitting RHP? Because that seems unlikely.

[JohnBriggs12]

Weeks was hitting just .190 as late as July 24 last year. He closed out the last 65 games or so putting up numbers more in line with his career, but it wasn't like he tore it up. Plus that was done hitting in front of Braun. With Aoki and Segura hitting 1-2, that is not going to happen now. Basically for more than 5 of the 7 1/2 months played since the start of 2012, he's sat below the Mendoza line. That's pretty strong evidence that he might indeed be done. On any sign of little resurgence, they need to shop him, even if it means getting little back or picking up a substantial portion of his salary. They should not be fooled by a decent month or two. Maybe Baltimore would be willing to take a chance.

 

Whether it's Gennett, Yuni, or Bianchi, or some combination, I believe they are better options than Weeks at this point. As they say, enough is enough. The only difference between Weeks and Hall of several years ago is that Rickie has more on his deal than Hall did. Both got plenty of chances.

[Ennder]

Basically for more than 5 of the 7 1/2 months played since the start of 2012, he's sat below the Mendoza line. That's pretty strong evidence that he might indeed be done.

 

No, that is just somewhat flawed usage of stats.

 

Weeks OPS was over .700 as late as April 28th last year so hard to call that a bad stretch. He has a .700 OPS in the past 2 weeks now. He broke out of his funk mid June last year. From June 15th until July 24th (the date you picked) he put up an OPS of .723 which again isn't bad. Weeks had a very poor 30 games or so last year, he had a very poor 20 games this year. This very well might be the type of guy he is now. .700 to .750 OPS in his normal stretches, a month or so of awfulness and then an .800+ OPS in his good stretches. That is still going to average out to something usable offensively. Probably something like what he gave us last year.

 

I dislike Weeks as a baseball player, I pray we don't vest his option and I would love to trade him. But at least be realistic about what he is. A Gennett/Weeks platoon would probably work for the team but it would destroy his trade value and he is a player that I also would be looking to trade.

 

You can look back in the archives and we've had this discussion already like 10 years ago and it was with Jenkins. As players start to decline their cold streaks get nastier and their hot streaks get shorter but they don't just fall off a cliff. Weeks probably has 3 more years of decline in him and then he will be a part time player or out of baseball at a young age because his defense limits his value in any short term play. 1 of those 3 years will probably seem like a resurgence as he'll get extra hot but the graph of his value will be a steady arrow down, it won't fall off a cliff without injury most likely though.

[logan82]

Actually Lucroy is hitting worse than Weeks. Madonado is probably a better option for catcher than Scooter is at 2B. Of course if still believe Scooter will hit close to what he is now at the MLB level nothing is going to change your opinion at this point.

 

What stats are you using to say Lucroy is worse than Weeks?

 

Lucroy has a higher average (.216 to .181), higher sluggling (.333 to .276), higher OPS (.598 to .578) and has more HR (3 to 2) and more RBI (16 to 9) in about 15 less at bats. Weeks has him in OBP (.302 to .264) but that's about it. Weeks has also struck out 42 times compared to Lucroys 14. Neither has been ripping it up lately either, as Lucroy is 5-30 in May and Weeks is 5-33, neither with an extra base hit.

 

They've both been pretty bad, but I don't see how you can say Lucroy is worse at the plate the Weeks.

 

Pretty tough to write Gennett off without even a single major league at bat. If you're saying he can't hit .180 with little to no power, I'd find that extremely unlikely.

I use wOBA to start with. You also have to keep in mind 1 point of OBP is worth about 1.5-1.8 points of SLG. That is why Weeks is doing better offensively than Lucroy. BA is pretty useless unless used with another stat so I usually skip over that one when making any determination about how well a player is hitting. I only use it to determine a player's plate discipling and there are even better stats to use for that.

 

Scooter has an empty batting average. Lots of singles without walks or extra base hits. Without good speed that probably does not translate well to the majors.

[Funketown]

Do you think Gennett's .675 line is his upside if he's only hitting RHP? Because that seems unlikely.

 

Does he have a large platoon split? If so then I see no reason to think that number couldn't be upped a bit using my patented eyeball method of prospect projections.

 

Oh, and when I say I think that .275/.325/.350 line is optimistic, I'm referring to this season. Obviously he could develop a bit more and that's probably pessimistic as a career upside.

[trwi7]

Gennett's OPS vs RHP by year:

 

2010: .807

2011: .767

2012: .759

2013: .878

 

Bring him up for a few weeks to see how he does in a platoon situation.

 

Am I supposed to be excited about those numbers?

[DrugBust]

Gennett's OPS vs RHP by year:

 

2010: .807

2011: .767

2012: .759

2013: .878

 

Bring him up for a few weeks to see how he does in a platoon situation.

 

Am I supposed to be excited about those numbers?

 

No.

[rluzinski]

Can't we just pin the 2012 Weeks thread and close this one? It's the same arguments just being repeated after all (e.g. "he is done, anyone will be better"). If I cared enough, I would look back to see if it's even the same people repeating themselves.

 

Expecting Weeks to repeat his best years again is unrealistic. Expecting Weeks to continue hitting as bad as he has this year is downright silly.

[Bombers]

Can't we just pin the 2012 Weeks thread and close this one? It's the same arguments just being repeated after all (e.g. "he is done, anyone will be better"). If I cared enough, I would look back to see if it's even the same people repeating themselves.

 

Expecting Weeks to repeat his best years again is unrealistic. Expecting Weeks to continue hitting as bad as he has this year is downright silly.

This thread:

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=28027&hilit=Rickie+weeks&start=460

 

My post was more around what does Scooter need to do to be given a shot? Weeks won't be a Brewer past next year and at some point, lets see what we have in Scooter to see if we need to go 2B shopping the next off season or two

[DHonks]

Just curious, but Weeks should have one option remaining, right? I think I remember he signed a MLB contract, so option years were used in 03, 04, and 05. However, I believe I remember he was given a 4th option year. I think he has enough MLB service time that he could refuse being optioned to AAA, however, it should be something worth considering if he's below .200 when Hart returns.

[AJAY]

I don't know much about Scooter Gennett, but I would like to see Jeff Bianchi get a serious chance to play at 2B on a regular basis. I don't pretend to be a professional scout, but after watching baseball for over 30 years, I feel like Bianchi has something in his batting approach that works whereas Weeks doesn't. I recently saw Bianchi hit an outside pitch and line hard it to the rightfield corner for extra bases. It was so beautiful. I almost cried. I have never seen Weeks do anything like that all season despite getting a million more at-bats than Bianchi.

 

I also thought that once Bianchi got regular playing time last year, he showed enough ability to at least be serviceable. He showed a little bit of power. I really hate that his bat is being wasted on the bench.

 

The last time I had a hunch like this, I was calling for Joe Dillon to replace Geoff Jenkins based on something I saw in his approach to hitting back in 2007. I posted it on BrewerFan.net and it took another 65 games or so before Brewers management finally figured it out too. Jenkins then became a platoon player with Kevin Mench, and Joe Dillon became a regular. But it was too late.

 

I just hope management can see this one much earlier. Let Bianchi play !!

[Ennder]

The last time I had a hunch like this, I was calling for Joe Dillon to replace Geoff Jenkins based on something I saw in his approach to hitting back in 2007. I posted it on BrewerFan.net and it took another 65 games or so before Brewers management finally figured it out too. Jenkins then became a platoon player with Kevin Mench, and Joe Dillon became a regular. But it was too late.

 

Joe Dillon was out of baseball by the end of 2009 because he was awful and he never had an even semi decent season. Jenkins put up a higher WAR in 2007 than Dillon did any single season or his total career combined. He had an OPS over .790 in 2007 and 2008. You were completely wrong if this is what you said.

[danzig6767]

I wouldn't expect Bianchi to be anything special, but he'd almost have to be better defensively and given the massive slump Weeks is in at the plate, it would be hard for Bianchi to be worse offensively until or if Rickie can turn things around.

 

Maybe give Bianchi a couple of starts a week and see how each guy responds. Who knows how exactly things would play out, but currently Weeks is a big liability both at the plate and in the field. I really respect how Rickie works hard and carries himself, yet it's painful watching him out there with so many ugly at bats and gaffes in the field. It's to the point that whenever he comes up to bat, i just really hope he can draw a walk, especially if runners are on base.

[Baldkin]

Rickie Weeks last 16 games: .220/.360/.381... for a .741 OPS.

 

Stop looking at his season batting average, and realize he hasn't been bad for the last 3 weeks, basically.

[markedman5]

Won't be seeing Scooter this year for those that want to see it....

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

[sveumrules]

Career minor league OBP/SLG

 

Jeff Bianchi 340/411

Scooter Gennett 341/414

 

Throw in the fact that Bianchi is both better defensively and offers more positional flexibility and I'd have to imagine he is a notch above Scooter on the organizational depth chart currently.

[brwrsfan]

Rickie Weeks last 16 games: .220/.360/.381... for a .741 OPS.

 

Stop looking at his season batting average, and realize he hasn't been bad for the last 3 weeks, basically.

 

Is it bad that we now look at a line like that for Rickie Weeks and think "eh, it's not so bad"? If someone like Braun put up a line like that over 16 games we'd say he was in a pretty big slump.

[The stache]

Rickie Weeks last 16 games: .220/.360/.381... for a .741 OPS.

 

Stop looking at his season batting average, and realize he hasn't been bad for the last 3 weeks, basically.

 

I realize this was posted three days ago, but let's look at Rickie's last three weeks, shall we?

 

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/5597/weeksapril28thmay192013.png

 

And ok, I'll ignore the .175 average.

 

Rickie's got a .297 OBP since April 28th (including today), a .599 slugging percentage. Oh wait, I'm sorry. That's not his SLG. That's his OPS. He's struck out 21 times in 63 at bats. Once every three official plate appearances.

 

Where again, exactly, has he "not been that bad" the last three weeks?

[The stache]

Now let's look at the month of May.

 

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/4200/weeksmay1stmay19th2013.png

 

Since May 1st, Rickie Weeks has a .189 SLG, and a .447 OPS.

 

There is no reason....NONE...to keep him in the lineup right now.

[pogokat]

I'm not ready to give up on him completely, especially since the guys we could replace him with have been markedly worse (alex gonzalez looks done)...

 

But...

 

He needs an extended rest---Bianchi should be starting for the mean time...

 

Weeks is on pace for over 200 k's with no power this season...I know he turned it around last year, but that was only marginal in comparison to the earlier days of his career...watching him right now, he looks like a player that has regressed a ton...he reminds me of Andruw Jones after he left the Braves...all of the problems he had suddenly became magnified to to the point where he clearly wasn't a starter any more

 

I just can't stand to watch a 6-7-8 of Weeks, Yuni, and Gonzalez right now...or ever...the only way to score as few runs as the brewers have with 5 ( or 4 when aram sits) of the best hitters in the NL at the top of their lineup is to ruin it by playing those fools

[torts]

I just can't stand to watch a 6-7-8 of Weeks, Yuni, and Gonzalez right now...or ever...the only way to score as few runs as the brewers have with 5 ( or 4 when aram sits) of the best hitters in the NL at the top of their lineup is to ruin it by playing those fools

 

THIS.