2013-05-03 Cardinals (Miller) at Brewers (Lohse), 7:10 PM CDT [Ramirez returns; Brewers lose, 6-1]

[adambr2]

Nice work Lucroy. Not contributing much of anything these days.

[TURBO]

I've seen enough...

 

Hopefully we make a better showing tomorrow.

 

*sigh*

[danzig6767]

Yeah I have not been impressed by Miller at all for this game at least, this seems to be a case of the Cardinals just holding over on us and us finding ways to lose the game more than anything. We just seem completely snake bit against them and not unlike the Packers vs Cowboys/49ers back in the early Favre days we need to learn how to compete with the Cardinals or we won't ever take that final step imo.

 

yeah i really dont see why this kid is considered a future ace. you aren't going to last long in the majors relying on the fastball 80% of the time. the majority of those fastballs are in hittable spots. brewers hitters are stupid and unlucky. they should be crushing this kid right now.

 

It's not just been Brewers hitters though, Miller has only given up 8 earned runs so far this year in 38 innings, with 38 K's and a 1.06 WHIP.

 

As a side note, Kintzler hasn't exactly been impressive so far.

[Eye Black]

Well they certainly have this throwing guys out at the plate thing down this season.

[wOOgiE22]

At least the Brewers are doing something well tonight. Could have used one of those plays last night.

[adambr2]

i dont see what is so special about this miller kid. he relies too much on the fast ball. the guy just throws the fastball in the zone. a smart hitting team is going to crush him. he may surprise hitters his first year because of a lack of game tape. hitters will figure him out. lol just not the brewers...

 

He is good, there is a reason he was a top 10 prospect. I would give my left nut to have arms like his in the brewers system.

 

not all top 10 prospects end up living to the hype. i wouldnt want a pitcher that throws nothing but fastballs. eventually he's going to get smacked around. give me the breaking ball master with control over the flamethrower anyday.

 

He's got a 1.96 ERA, he's doing something right.

 

I disagree with taking the breaking ball master over the flamethrower. Ideally you want someone who can do a little bit of a couple things, but I'll take a Kershaw over a Zito any day.

[topper09er]

First batter the Yunibomber, lucky to only allow a single

[adambr2]

Most likely we are going to rally, have the bases loaded in the 9th, and lose 6-5 so that Kintzler's runs will really come back to burn.

[adambr2]

Get on base..the only thing to worry about now. Well, and don't make any outs doing so.

 

And as I type that Schafer hacks 3-1 and makes 2 outs.

 

Anyone still think Logan Schafer is interchangeable with Gomez/Aoki/Hart?

[danzig6767]

Lohse was pathetic tonight. Really lucky he only gave up 4, although 2 of them were due to no help from blue, that's for sure.

 

The Cardinals certainly hit a number of balls hard off Lohse, but he also caught some bad luck.

 

1. If the ump rings up Holliday, no 2 run homer.

 

2. In the two innings which they scored two runs, twice balls fell in front of Aoki that most rightfielders catch if they aren't playing only 2-3 steps off the warning track as Aoki does. Keep in mind both innings the two runs scored with two outs.

[wOOgiE22]

Well that inning ended with a whimper

[adambr2]

Lohse was pathetic tonight. Really lucky he only gave up 4, although 2 of them were due to no help from blue, that's for sure.

 

The Cardinals certainly hit a number of balls hard off Lohse, but he also caught some bad luck.

 

1. If the ump rings up Holliday, no 2 run homer.

 

2. In the two innings which they scored two runs, twice balls fell in front of Aoki that most rightfielders catch if they aren't playing only 2-3 steps off the warning track as Aoki does. Keep in mind both innings the two runs scored with two outs.

 

I have no problem with the non-strike call on Lohse, it was close enough off to justify not calling it. Probably missed the plate by an inch. Still on Lohse for giving up a 450 foot moonshot after that.

 

What I have a problem with is the inconsistency, where worse pitches the following inning to Estrada and Segura resulted in ringups.

[danzig6767]

Most likely we are going to rally, have the bases loaded in the 9th, and lose 6-5 so that Kintzler's runs will really come back to burn.

 

I had fairly high hopes for Kintzler and i known he's only thrown 12 innings so far, but he hasn't looked good like much of the bullpen hasn't. Then pen has to be more productive going forward for the team to have any chance of staying in a race for a playoff berth.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

He is good, there is a reason he was a top 10 prospect. I would give my left nut to have arms like his in the brewers system.

 

not all top 10 prospects end up living to the hype. i wouldnt want a pitcher that throws nothing but fastballs. eventually he's going to get smacked around. give me the breaking ball master with control over the flamethrower anyday.

 

He's got a 1.96 ERA, he's doing something right.

 

I disagree with taking the breaking ball master over the flamethrower. Ideally you want someone who can do a little bit of a couple things, but I'll take a Kershaw over a Zito any day.

 

i doubt he finishes the year with an era under 3.3. Fiers looked pretty good his first year too. Teams started figuring him out and now he's in the minors. It won't surprise if teams figure out Miller by the end of year. Barry Zito is an extreme. He's a soft tosser. I'm not a fan of soft tossers. I prefer a pitcher who only throws 90-92 mph fastball and has an assortment of breaking balls. This Miller kid is one dimensional. Strasburg is a flamethrower but he's got other pitches. Michael Pineda was once a highly touted prospect. He hasn't done squat so far. Time will tell on this Miller kid, but I'm not a fan. I'm not saying this either because he's a Cardinal. I'd have serious doubts about him even if he was a Brewer. I just don't think that a fastball heavy pitcher is the key to success. Just my opinion. Look at our own John Axford. In 2011 he had a sick breaking ball to go with the heat. He was a big success that year. Now he can't locate his breaking ball to save his life. That has led to him become reliant on the fastball. Axford now sucks..

[chickinbrickin]

i dont see what is so special about this miller kid. he relies too much on the fast ball. the guy just throws the fastball in the zone. a smart hitting team is going to crush him. he may surprise hitters his first year because of a lack of game tape. hitters will figure him out. lol just not the brewers...

 

He is good, there is a reason he was a top 10 prospect. I would give my left nut to have arms like his in the brewers system.

 

not all top 10 prospects end up living to the hype. i wouldnt want a pitcher that throws nothing but fastballs. eventually he's going to get smacked around. give me the breaking ball master with control over the flamethrower anyday.

 

He throws 73% fastballs and the off-speed just enough to keep the hitters honest. He does exactly what people have been begging Yo to do for years. Trust your stuff and throw strikes.... He also controls that fastball well. Doesn't leave too many over the heart of the plate in obvious fastball counts.

 

 

Like him, but still hate him because he is a Cardinal.

[BeerBrewer79]

Just realized they are actually wearing their BP caps not an actual game cap, so is this a one off returning to the all blue caps, or is their retro uniform all season?

Per the TV broadcast, this is the only time this season they are going to wear these caps.

Thanks for that info:) Hopefully it returns as the full time uniform soon:)

 

Cardinals just seem to get a run when needed tonight, frustrating but that's baseball I guess:(

[danzig6767]

Lohse was pathetic tonight. Really lucky he only gave up 4, although 2 of them were due to no help from blue, that's for sure.

 

The Cardinals certainly hit a number of balls hard off Lohse, but he also caught some bad luck.

 

1. If the ump rings up Holliday, no 2 run homer.

 

2. In the two innings which they scored two runs, twice balls fell in front of Aoki that most rightfielders catch if they aren't playing only 2-3 steps off the warning track as Aoki does. Keep in mind both innings the two runs scored with two outs.

 

I have no problem with the non-strike call on Lohse, it was close enough off to justify not calling it. Probably missed the plate by an inch. Still on Lohse for giving up a 450 foot moonshot after that.

 

What I have a problem with is the inconsistency, where worse pitches the following inning to Estrada and Segura resulted in ringups.

 

I was only trying to say that in any given game, a variety of things can end up have a pretty big impact on exactly how many runs a pitcher gives up, more or less runs.

 

So sure, Lohse could have easily ended up being charged with more runs, but one different call on the pitch to Holliday and Aoki not stationing himself a few feet off the warning track, those balls become outs instead of hits, ending the innings before runs score.

 

Hell, look at Peralta yesterday. He gives up 6 runs in an inning full of mostly seeing eye grounders and flares finding outfielder grass. That's the life of pitchers, sometimes the baseball gods are kind and other times pretty cruel.

[adambr2]

Gomez has been gunned down twice tonight on plays that I thought he had the speed to easily beat out.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, that last one was Maldy. Got used to Gomez hitting after Weeks.

[The stache]

not all top 10 prospects end up living to the hype. i wouldnt want a pitcher that throws nothing but fastballs. eventually he's going to get smacked around. give me the breaking ball master with control over the flamethrower anyday.

 

He has other pitches, you know. He's not throwing them because he doesn't need to. Why throw other pitches that will put strain on his arm? Why show the other pitches in your arsenal if a team can't hit your fastball?

 

Miller is a damned good young pitcher. Better than anything we have. He's 4-2 with a 1.96 ERA, 38 Ks in 36 2/3 IP, a 1.06 WHIP.

 

Another one of their young studs, Carlos Martinez, came out and threw a scoreless eighth. Wacha's not up yet, but he's going to be outstanding, too.

[The stache]

Miller won't continue being a good pitcher because he's predominantly a fastball pitcher?

 

The comparison between Fiers and Miller is a bad one. Fiers had a good rookie season, but he was never really considered a top prospect. His deceptive mechanics threw hitters off, but they eventually caught up to him. Miller has been a top prospect, and he was the best pitching prospect the Cardinals, a team loaded with pitching talent, had from the day they signed him. He won't keep his current dominance up, but he's going to be a top 10 pitcher in the National League, imo.

 

Miller threw 6 + innings of shutout ball against the Nationals, one of the better hitting teams in the Majors. He's now given up one earned run against us in 13 innings. We had the top offense in the National League last year. Shouldn't we have been better against him tonight? We've already seen him once this season.

[brewcrewdue80]

When you're spotted the lead and you're getting outs with just throwing your fastball what's the point of throwing other pitches? Just to tinker around? Via radio it sounded like that 6th inning he was throwing a lot of curves.

 

How much do you think Molina calling the pitches factors in to that? Can hate on him all you want but since he's been catching for STL, mediocre starters have managed under 4eras with regularity.

 

I easily foresee Miller finishing the season under 3.3era. Why? Hitters in general are allowed to hack nowadays. I heard on an ESPN webcast April was most Ks to start the season by hitters ever. And that's just it, hitters arent hitting anymore for hits. It's all about freeswinging. Leads to less Walks which for a young pitcher is what I'd worry about and here Miller sits w/o many Walks(1 tonight) Extra K here a Deep flyout vs walk here and it's 2-3 outs just given to the pitcher. Over the course of the season a 3.75era type of pitcher is floating under 3.3 due to all the free outs batters are giving him.

 

BTW, in context with where I'm already coming up with a comparison for Miller is Jordan Zimmerman. You take away the TJ year missed from him and look out with Miller in a year or two from now.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

He is good, there is a reason he was a top 10 prospect. I would give my left nut to have arms like his in the brewers system.

 

not all top 10 prospects end up living to the hype. i wouldnt want a pitcher that throws nothing but fastballs. eventually he's going to get smacked around. give me the breaking ball master with control over the flamethrower anyday.

 

He throws 73% fastballs and the off-speed just enough to keep the hitters honest. He does exactly what people have been begging Yo to do for years. Trust your stuff and throw strikes.... He also controls that fastball well. Doesn't leave too many over the heart of the plate in obvious fastball counts.

 

To me 73% is too much. I'd much prefer it if Yovani worked on perfecting his curveball. That thing is a beauty. Imagine a Gallardo that had complete control of his breaking pitches? He could compliment that with the fastball. My preferred strategy is to rely on various breaking pitches and then surprise hitters with some heat. Curveball, slider, changeup, then BAM heat!

 

Like him, but still hate him because he is a Cardinal.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

He is good, there is a reason he was a top 10 prospect. I would give my left nut to have arms like his in the brewers system.

 

not all top 10 prospects end up living to the hype. i wouldnt want a pitcher that throws nothing but fastballs. eventually he's going to get smacked around. give me the breaking ball master with control over the flamethrower anyday.

 

He throws 73% fastballs and the off-speed just enough to keep the hitters honest. He does exactly what people have been begging Yo to do for years. Trust your stuff and throw strikes.... He also controls that fastball well. Doesn't leave too many over the heart of the plate in obvious fastball counts.

 

To me 73% is too much. I'd much prefer it if Yovani worked on perfecting his curveball. That thing is a beauty. Imagine a Gallardo that had complete control of his breaking pitches? He could compliment that with the fastball. My preferred strategy is to rely on various breaking pitches and then surprise hitters with some heat. Curveball, slider, changeup, then BAM heat!

 

Like him, but still hate him because he is a Cardinal.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

not all top 10 prospects end up living to the hype. i wouldnt want a pitcher that throws nothing but fastballs. eventually he's going to get smacked around. give me the breaking ball master with control over the flamethrower anyday.

 

He has other pitches, you know. He's not throwing them because he doesn't need to. Why throw other pitches that will put strain on his arm? Why show the other pitches in your arsenal if a team can't hit your fastball?

 

Miller is a damned good young pitcher. Better than anything we have. He's 4-2 with a 1.96 ERA, 38 Ks in 36 2/3 IP, a 1.06 WHIP.

 

Another one of their young studs, Carlos Martinez, came out and threw a scoreless eighth. Wacha's not up yet, but he's going to be outstanding, too.

 

How do we know that his other pitches are good if he doesn't throw them? Minor league success doesn't always translate to major league success. Well either way knowing how lucky the Lardinals are, Miller will end up winning 3 Cy youngs, and have record 50-1 against the Brewers. Everything the Lardinals touch turns to gold. So we better get use to this one dimensional kid owning the Brewers.

[TheCrew07]

Yeah I have not been impressed by Miller at all for this game at least, this seems to be a case of the Cardinals just holding over on us and us finding ways to lose the game more than anything. We just seem completely snake bit against them and not unlike the Packers vs Cowboys/49ers back in the early Favre days we need to learn how to compete with the Cardinals or we won't ever take that final step imo.

 

yeah i really dont see why this kid is considered a future ace. you aren't going to last long in the majors relying on the fastball 80% of the time. the majority of those fastballs are in hittable spots. brewers hitters are stupid and unlucky. they should be crushing this kid right now.

 

I think both of you are missing the point here... you don't need pitches 2 and 3 if you can get outs with your FB, and he moves his FB all over the zone. He also works up in the zone like Sheets did getting many hitters to swing at FBs just out of the strike zone that they can't catch up with, I've harped on that concept for a long time, it bothers me that few pitchers attack hitters up and/or up and in anymore.

 

We have no one with an arm like Miller who can locate like Miller, give the young man his due. Yes he'll have to develop his secondary stuff at some point, but we'd take him in a heartbeat if we could. He painted a couple of FBs at 96 MPH at the knees on the outside corner without Molina having to move his glove but he's not impressive? Come on... I wish any of our young arms had that much gas and control, our best pitching prospect in the last decade in Gallardo has never even been able to locate like that which is why he gets into way too many 3 ball counts, and his arm was never that good.

 

Ohh and both his curve and change flash plus potential when he actually uses them, he was one of the best prospects in baseball for a reason and he learned some hard lessons in AAA last year which he's obviously applied and is better off for.

 

It irks me how well the Cards do consistently developing talent, their 2 recent world series wins, I hated TLR, dont' care for Molina, not a big of fan of their sanctimonious fanbase whining about HR stuff when no one admired a HR like Pujols, I dislike and/or am jealous of everything they've done. However, at the same I believe we should at least be realistic and give credit where credit is due. It's a fantastic organization with a ton of history that continues to do just about everything the right way from a talent standpoint and while I certainly don't like it, I'm not going to spin their success in a way that belittles their accomplishments. They've been better than us at MLB, they've out scouted us, and they've out developed us in the minors, and they've made better moves from a talent perspective... we've simply just been worked. We don't have to like it but we should acknowledge and appreciate their success... other than getting lucky with Suppan nothing was an accident, they are just very solid and well run organization through and through. Any team that sustains MLB success and yet has a loaded farm system is obviously doing something right... hopefully some day we can reach that point as an organization.