Could there be a strong market for Lohse?

[brewmann04]

I would like to know how intrested teams are in Loshe and what is Melvin is asking for.

[PrinceEatMeat]

It's not a good sign imo that Lohse wasn't traded by today. With his start tomorrow, the acquiring team would have gotten that extra start(Braves?)

 

The Braves who now run out returning to action Beachy good. But then Tuesday is Alex Wood's next start which if I were Atlanta and serious about acquiring Lohse, I'd have him now to start that day. I guess seeing 1 start from Beachy and another from Wood isn't the end of the world for Atlanta vs. getting 1 added start by Lohse. But complete Flameouts by both, would make the Sellers in a better position to say, hey, I don't have to let Lohse go....I want Sims+ you're the team staring at a rotation with 1 solid arm and a lot of question marks down the stretch. So give me the goods I want if you want to see your season saved, or take on a guy like Bud Norris and watch him flame your team down the stretch just as awful as some team's season not that long ago...who was that again?

 

I don't think it's a bad sign. All of the teams interested in a starter are waiting out the Peavy situation. I think if guys like Norris or Lohse go, it'll be to a team that lost out on Peavy and gets desperate on deadline day when they see that no one else is out there. One more start would only matter if Lohse was a rental, and he's not. Teams are buying 2.5 years of Lohse, not just the rest of this season.

[brewcrewdue80]

Teams are buying 2.5 years of Lohse, not just the rest of this season.

 

Not to nitpick, a pet peeve of mine. Saying teams are buying 2.5years of Lohse when there's less than 40% of games left to be played. In truth it's 2.33 seasons of Lohse plus what Postseason games that may be pitched by him...if any. We're just about down to the final 1/3rd of the season remaining.

 

The halfway mark of the season was July 1st. You're not the only one to say 2.5/1.5 seasons for a player. I've said it but have at least gone down to .4 and will remark .33 from here on out since that is where it stands July 31st.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Teams are buying 2.5 years of Lohse, not just the rest of this season.

 

Not to nitpick, a pet peeve of mine. Saying teams are buying 2.5years of Lohse when there's less than 40% of games left to be played. In truth it's 2.33 seasons of Lohse plus what Postseason games that may be pitched by him...if any. We're just about down to the final 1/3rd of the season remaining.

 

The halfway mark of the season was July 1st. You're not the only one to say 2.5/1.5 seasons for a player. I've said it but have at least gone down to .4 and will remark .33 from here on out since that is where it stands July 31st.

 

Fair enough. That doesn't really change the point I was trying to make though, so it doesn't really matter. And as you said, any team trading for him will likely be in the postseason too, so it ends up being about .4 with a good run instead of .5.

[JohnBriggs12]

Beane would trade for Lohse for the playoff run and then flip him in the offseason or next deadline. That's what he does. He wouldn't really be looking at him as a 2.5 year acquisition when trading for him. It would be a good match in my opinion.

 

Which is why the Brewers should hold on to him and see what the market is for him this winter. Oakland might be a good fit, but if there's no other teams competing for his services, the return isn't being maximized and there may be an even better fit out there.

[brewmann04]

I am thinking the Crew will be quiet come the Deadline.

[Warning Track Power]

Ditto...Seems like Yo, Lohse, Aoki and Ax are staying. 2013 is certainly becoming one of the worst all around seasons in Brewer history.

[harrydalton]

Glad to see somebody knows the meaning of "ditto." (Someone tell rush limbaugh and his cronies, please!)

 

I don't think they'll make a major move for the seeming lack of interest by buyers. Lohse could be of interest to somebody now but maybe more next winter.

[splitterpfj]

Either the Brewers are being extremely secretive, or they aren't being aggressive at all. Right now, I'd bet they deal Gonzalez in your basic, "somewhere, for something" deal, but I don't hear signs of anything else.

[TheCrew07]

I don't understand why the Brewers would have any interest in Ynoa. He has done nothing so far to give any indication he will even turn into a mediocre minor leaguer let alone a big league player.

 

I would be pissed if they moved Loshe for Ynoa. Should be able to get a much better package.

 

Have you ever watched him pitch? I watched him pitch against the T-Rats and I would trade Lohse straight up for Michael Ynoa or Raul Alcantara and not blink twice. Yes I realize Ynoa's ERA sucks since his promotion to A+, he's obviously not locating well enough yet for the league, but he's only 4 starts in. I would prefer Alcantara given Ynoa's injury history, but in terms of pure stuff Ynoa is right there with the better A ball prospects.

 

For Beloit this year:

Ynoa

[pre]Year Age Tm Lg Aff ERA G GS IP H R HR SO HBP WHIP H/9 HR/9 BB/9 SO/9 SO/BB

2013 21 Beloit MIDW OAK 2.14 15 15 54.2 45 19 3 48 7 1.152 7.4 0.5 3.0 7.9 2.67[/pre]

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

 

Alcantara

[pre]Year Age Tm Lg ERA G GS IP H R ER HR BB SO WHIP H/9 HR/9 BB/9 SO/9 SO/BB

2013 20 Beloit MIDW 2.44 13 13 77.1 84 29 21 3 7 58 1.177 9.8 0.3 0.8 6.8 8.29[/pre]

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

[fondybrewfan]

Brewers have gotten pretty unlucky. There best trading chips coming into the year could have been Hart, Ramirez, Weeks, and Gallardo and they all either suck or got hurt. In hindsight maybe DM should have tried harder to trade some people this past offseason but maybe even then he did and just didn't get any worthwhile offers.

 

I am thinking one more reliever will get dealt and maybe Aoki but it sure doesn't look like there will be a blockbuster or any big time prospects coming our way. I would expect DM to pretty active this offseason though with some money coming off of the books after this year and next.

[Outlander]

I am doubting them being too active this off season because really they don't have that much money coming off the books this year, 2015 I would agree with Ramirez and Weeks. Maybe he will try to trade Lohse, Gallardo, Aoki, Gorz, Weeks again next summer. I just don't see them taking on a lot of salary in 2014 when the possibility exists that 2014 will be another losing season and attendance is likely to decrease even more.

[JackNicholson1974]

Hard to argue the Brewers are unlucky after picking up K-Rod off the scrap heap and flipping him for Delmonico, but I agree, it could have turned out better.

 

That said, if Gallardo and Weeks didnt stink and Ramirez and Hart were healthy we might be trudging toward another 80-82 season with a delusion of making the playoffs and trading Jimmy Nelson and Victor Roache for Jake Peavy or something equally crappy, so maybe we are actually lucky after all.

[dlk9s]

Rumors are that the O's might be willing to trade Dylan Bundy. I'd start with Lohse and see what else I might have to add. I wouldn't go crazy because of his TJ surgery, but I'd take a shot.

[splitterpfj]

Jon Morosi Tweets that Boston is still engaged in talks for Jake Peavy and Cliff Lee. Lee is still owed 70 million dollars, and will be 35 in a month. Peavy just got off the DL, and the White Sox are asking for Xander Bogaerts, who is one of the very best prospects anywhere right now.

 

The Brewers should be all over Boston, (who knows, maybe they are, but no reports of it at least), with Kyle Lohse.

 

Jimmy Nelson is a fine prospect, I wish the Brewers had ten more like him, but the point is, Jonathan Mayo at MLB.com has Nelson rated as the #96 overall prospect, and Milwaukee's best prospect. Boston has FOUR pitchers in their system who are currently ranked higher than our number one overall prospect. Four PITCHERS, better than any prospect we currently have.

 

That is a team that needs Lohse, that can afford his contract, and that can afford to deal exactly what the Brewers should be trying to add.

 

You're killing me Smalls...

[Kelbysdaddy]

White Sox are asking for the moon -actually- the moon, stars, Pluto, and heaven -for peavy. I get that they are trying to rebuild but between the prospects they are asking for on top of not wanting to pay any of the remaining contract, they need to get their heads out from their backsides before realistic deals are made and no one needs peavy.

[Warning Track Power]

#50 (Webster), #57 (Owens), #59 (Barnes) & #88 (Ranaudo)

 

I have been saying all along that any package of Brewers players on the big league roster for 2 of them should be the focus for Melvin. Look at the Top 100 list and you find Cardinals, Pirates and Cubs littered in the list and we have 1 at #96 nonetheless and we're miles behind in the MLB standings as well. The Brewers aren't going to the playoffs in 2013 or 2014 with Ramirez, Lohse, Aoki, Axford, Henderson and Gallardo. The time to sell is now and there is an opportunity there to make a move that will enhance the Brewers with higher end prospects.

 

If Attanasio and Melvin are holding out hope that a healthy Ramirez and Hart, combined with a returning Ryan Braun will make us World Series competitors in 2014, I will be severely disappointed. Putting a deal together which would land us a Barnes and Ranaudo would make our future rotation (assuming all work out) Peralta, Nelson, Barnes, Ranaudo, Jungmann combined with Braun, Segura, Gomez and Lucroy...man I just can't understand not making a significant effort to get younger and get prospects. Offer Lohse, Aoki, Henderson & Ramirez if you have to. Offer to pay some of the salaries. See if you can get a 3B of the future in Middlebrooks if you can.

 

I understand that we know nothing about whether or not the Red Sox or Brewers have discussed anything but the lack of any rumors stinks given we can immediately fill RF (Aoki), SP (Lohse), RP (Henderson) & 3B by mid-August (Ramirez) for a team that could win the World Series in 2013.

[TheCrew07]

You're killing me Smalls...

 

I have nothing to add other than any post which quotes The Sandlot deserves to be quoted in turn!

 

Well maybe I do, I don't want Melvin to make trades simply to make trades, I'm looking for a specific kind of talent in return or I'm not dealing. However, I'm not sure the net was cast wide enough.

 

For example, if you're looking for young impact pitching to build around then you have to be willing to trade pieces that will bring that kind of talent. Looking at the MLB roster the only guy who really fits that bill is Gomez. The better GMs in baseball just don't make quantity deals (unless every player has impact potential), so we'd better be willing to give something to get something.

 

Is Lohse going to command one of BA's top 50 players on his own? I don't think so, so then the target needs to be set lower towards fringy top 100 guys in the low minors with warts that the organization thinks they can work through and fix.

 

I'm fine trading relievers for potential position players, I think that's good value, but pulling any top 20 pitcher for reliever is an incredible steal, it doesn't happen often, especially in this Sabermetric age of baseball.

 

My question would be what exactly is Melvin looking for and whom did he make available and when? The way this situation has worked out to this point it appears that the Brewers believe they will be competitive with better health from their position players next year which I just don't see.

 

I've often said that I believe in just about everyone being available in the right deal as I believe getting what you want is all about timing. The problem from an organizaiton building standpoint is that unless Melvin is completely out of it he's looking to patch the MLB roster instead of build a strong foundation. As such only a handful of players are available and even now when the Brewers are clearly out of the playoff picture there are only 4-5 players available none with enough talent or value to land the next Segura.

 

If Brewer management believes that we'll be competitive in 2014 with Tom Gorzelanny (who already failed as a starter multiple times), Kyle Lohse, Yovani Gallardo (he'll bounce back!), and Wily Peralta next season then I don't think we'll see much in the way of significant MLB pieces being moved. If that's the mindset then they'd have to be counting on better health and bounce back performances to carry the season but the problem as has been pointed out many times is that the organization will still be losing ground in the division. The top 3 teams have more young impact pitching and positional talent to cycle into their MLB rosters while we do nothing but get a year older and more expensive?

 

We're just way too top heavy as an organization, we need a more robust foundation. Obviously I've never bought into the organization's "plan", which to me is more "fly by the seat of our pants" patching holes year to year, anymore than I'm buying that Gorzelanny, Gallardo, and Lohse are first division starters, or Taylor Jungmann and Jed Bradley will be top of the rotation starters for us. Looking at all of the angles I can think of, the only way that this plan works out is with extreme good fortune, and I've never been one to put my eggs in that basket.

 

I'm willing to be patient, as said I'm not into trading a guy just to trade a guy, but at the same time I have a nagging feeling that after this craptastic 2013 MA and DM will turn into buyers again this off-season in an effort to boost attendance. I haven't liked where the organization was at from a talent standpoint for years and I'm firmly against chasing 85 wins given the average age of our "core". Chasing 85 wins made sense in 2006 and 2007, but at the other end of the window is that really a good strategy? There's probably at least 50 different ways the organizaiton can go in the future, but the only roads that really lead anywhere involve reloading a bit which moves the organization as a whole forward. I want to be building towards something, not floating around mediocrity, we've been there and done that for the last 7 years, we know the best case outcome of this management style.

 

If the organization truly wanted to move Lohse and get younger then Kyle needed to be packaged with someone who carries significant value like Gomez. Trading away spare parts (relievers) isn't going to get us where we need to go. There have been some great ideas in this thread about package deals, paying salary, and so on, but how much of that was was truly considered by Brewer management? We'll never know, but from the little bits and pieces of information we get it sure seems like the idea was to just move a few spare parts and wait to be blown away by offers for guys that don't hold all that much trade value. I would call that arbitrarily limiting our possibilities, and I don't like it at all. Then again I've felt for a long time that the roster construction has been fundamentally flawed from the start.

[fondybrewfan]

I just don't understand the complete lack of apparent interest in Lohse. Jake Peavy the perpetually injured and old Jake Peavy is the prize of the trade deadline over Lohse. And Cliff Lee is still owed a bazillion dollars. Maybe Melvin has fielded a bunch of calls and is just waiting for a desperate team on the 31st; but man if I was a contending team I think Lohse would be pretty attractive. His performance far exceeds his contract and his contract isn't really all that bad

[Warning Track Power]

I'm willing to be patient, as said I'm not into trading a guy just to trade a guy, but at the same time I have a nagging feeling that after this craptastic 2013 MA and DM will turn into buyers again this off-season in an effort to boost attendance. I haven't liked where the organization was at from a talent standpoint for years and I'm firmly against chasing 85 wins given the average age of our "core". Chasing 85 wins made sense in 2006 and 2007, but at the other end of the window is that really a good strategy? There's probably at least 50 different ways the organizaiton can go in the future, but the only roads that really lead anywhere involve reloading a bit which moves the organization as a whole forward. I want to be building towards something, not floating around mediocrity, we've been there and done that for the last 7 years, we know the best case outcome of this management style.

I think this is an important paragraph. I think we all understood the mediocrity of the 2003-2007 seasons were about building to a point where our organization could compete and fans would tolerate this mediocrity because we knew that Weeks, Fielder, Braun, Hardy and Hart were all on their way. Well we're once again at that point of mediocrity and due to mismanagement we have little to no hope on the way as none of our prospects are profiling to be anything other than average MLBers. We need to be building towards something and not be comfortable with mediocrity. So like TheCrew said, if that means we have to move Gomez in a deal then so be it. If the Red Sox were to say we will trade you Webster, Barnes and Ranaudo for Gomez and Lohse, you would have to say yes. We would re-build the rotation immediately for 2014-2020. Losing Gomez hurts and isn't what I want, but are we going to the playoffs with him and the cast of prospects we have now? I doubt it. With a 2015 rotation of possibly Peralta, Webster, Barnes, Ranaudo, Nelson, Jungmann with Schafer in CF, could the Brewers be in the playoffs? Yes.

 

If nothing more, TheCrew you have converted me to your idea of team building.

[splitterpfj]

The way I see Boston is this...

 

They can afford to move one of those arms, I can't imagine them moving two, but they could move one of those arms, if they think the need they're filling justifies the cost.

 

Since the Sox are being linked to Peavy and Lee, they must have decided they have the need. I know Lohse has never had the peak those guys had, but I also know Peavy has been hurt a lot, and Lee's contract from this point forward, is terrible.

 

Boston is hedging on a top prospect, plus absorbing all of the money in the deal, I don't know how they value Lohse, but if they like him enough, we may be able to pull their choice of those four pitchers for Lohse, or, if there's a guy we like above the others, we could put some money out there to get the one we want.

 

Right now, it doesn't sound like anything's happening with Lohse anyway, but this is the perfect team to match up with. They have an abundance, right where Milwaukee needs them to have one.

[Warning Track Power]

Moving Lohse should be a priority as he will likely never be worth more than what he is now and the Brewers could cut the salary. I would ask teams to give me their best offer and if the best the Red Sox can do is Lohse for Middlebrooks then I do that. A potential 3B of the future for a highly paid pitcher on a last place team seems like a good bet for the Brewers.

[HiAndTight]

Jon Morosi Tweets that Boston is still engaged in talks for Jake Peavy and Cliff Lee. Lee is still owed 70 million dollars, and will be 35 in a month. Peavy just got off the DL, and the White Sox are asking for Xander Bogaerts, who is one of the very best prospects anywhere right now.

 

The Brewers should be all over Boston, (who knows, maybe they are, but no reports of it at least), with Kyle Lohse.

 

Jimmy Nelson is a fine prospect, I wish the Brewers had ten more like him, but the point is, Jonathan Mayo at MLB.com has Nelson rated as the #96 overall prospect, and Milwaukee's best prospect. Boston has FOUR pitchers in their system who are currently ranked higher than our number one overall prospect. Four PITCHERS, better than any prospect we currently have.

 

That is a team that needs Lohse, that can afford his contract, and that can afford to deal exactly what the Brewers should be trying to add.

 

You're killing me Smalls...

 

 

C'mon....Boston and NY will ALWAYS have prospects that are drastically overrated. It goes along with their status in baseball. Jimmy Nelson is extremely similar to Peralta IMO except I think he may strike out more batters. He has ace stuff. I think he's a bit underrated.

 

That said, I'm not opposed to anything you're suggesting. Obviously since this thought popped into my head about 30 seconds after we signed a pitcher when we had a 85 win team if everything went perfect, I was hoping to get something back as we really do have a ugly, ugly farm system at the upper levels(their is a lot of talent in the lower levels though).

 

And Lohse is really just an impressive-impressive pitcher. I really think Gallardo can learn from him and enter his "second act," if he pitches more and throws less as he continues to lose his stuff.

 

 

There should be a lot of teams interested in him even with his contract.

[HiAndTight]

I don't understand why the Brewers would have any interest in Ynoa. He has done nothing so far to give any indication he will even turn into a mediocre minor leaguer let alone a big league player.

 

I would be pissed if they moved Loshe for Ynoa. Should be able to get a much better package.

 

Have you ever watched him pitch? I watched him pitch against the T-Rats and I would trade Lohse straight up for Michael Ynoa or Raul Alcantara and not blink twice. Yes I realize Ynoa's ERA sucks since his promotion to A+, he's obviously not locating well enough yet for the league, but he's only 4 starts in. I would prefer Alcantara given Ynoa's injury history, but in terms of pure stuff Ynoa is right there with the better A ball prospects.

 

For Beloit this year:

Ynoa

[pre]Year Age Tm Lg Aff ERA G GS IP H R HR SO HBP WHIP H/9 HR/9 BB/9 SO/9 SO/BB

2013 21 Beloit MIDW OAK 2.14 15 15 54.2 45 19 3 48 7 1.152 7.4 0.5 3.0 7.9 2.67[/pre]

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

 

Alcantara

[pre]Year Age Tm Lg ERA G GS IP H R ER HR BB SO WHIP H/9 HR/9 BB/9 SO/9 SO/BB

2013 20 Beloit MIDW 2.44 13 13 77.1 84 29 21 3 7 58 1.177 9.8 0.3 0.8 6.8 8.29[/pre]

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

 

 

I'm curious and don't follow everyone's background all that closely. Do you scout? You reference watching a lot of these guys play and then come down pretty hard on entire organization(right or wrong). Just curious if you're a fan or if you've spent time behind the dish with a radar gun taking notes.

 

Not that I wouldn't value your opinions in either event. I don't always agree, but generally we're of the same mind.

 

 

For the record, I have no idea what's being offered for Lohse. If you can get Ynoa and that's the guy with the highest ceiling out there I'd trade him. I'd trade him because what else are we going to use him for other than waste his last couple good years on a 65 win team. And who knows, maybe he lives up to his potential.

[monty57]

cbssportsline today quoted Melvin saying that they're not moving Gallardo (this was before he left the game injured today), and they have one offer on the table for a pitcher, but it's not likely to lead to a deal. He didn't say who the pitcher was or whether it was a reliever or starter.