Behold the Talents of Jean Segura

[BruisedCrew]

Saying that Ron's philosophy makes more outs than Yuni's bat doesn't strike me as particularly clever, but I guess here that passes as insightful analysis that should not be questioned.

 

I think that, as a whole on this board, I've read more snarky, cliche statements against Roenicke than in support of him. I also think I've read more snarky, cliche statements against Roenicke than well-reasoned arguments about why he is such a terrible manager. But then again, maybe that's just selective memory because I am thoroughly entertained by it all.

 

That has definitely been my observation. All it takes is for a runner to be thrown out on the bases or a relief pitcher to give up a couple of runs and the comments about Roenicke being an idiot come out.

 

The funny thing is that I am pretty much neutral about Roenicke, but I find myself reacting to what I think are unfair criticisms.

[thebruce44]

Saying that Ron's philosophy makes more outs than Yuni's bat doesn't strike me as particularly clever, but I guess here that passes as insightful analysis that should not be questioned.

 

I think that, as a whole on this board, I've read more snarky, cliche statements against Roenicke than in support of him. I also think I've read more snarky, cliche statements against Roenicke than well-reasoned arguments about why he is such a terrible manager. But then again, maybe that's just selective memory because I am thoroughly entertained by it all.

 

In the initial feeling out period for RR, there was a lot of really great debate. Right around the time he started Kotsay in CF for a playoff game, the debate shifted as the RR supporters didn't have much to stand on besides the teams success or were just flat out ignored. It got to the point where there wasn't anything left to debate. One side hated the guy and could point to a lot of examples of poor decisions. One side liked the guy and would point to his record, or that players liked him, or that every manager makes bad decisions.

 

Now they stink and the RR supporters have changed to say people are criticizing him now because of the record. But beyond that change, everything else is more or less the same and has run its course.

 

One last point, BruisedCrew, I personally don't like when someone new comes on here and criticizes a majority of the posters with vast generalizations. If you want to debate something thats great, its what this place is for, but if you think you are better than the other posters here and discount their opinions its not going to lead to healthy discussion.

[gregmag]

One last point, BruisedCrew, I personally don't like when someone new comes on here and criticizes a majority of the posters with vast generalizations. If you want to debate something thats great, its what this place is for, but if you think you are better than the other posters here and discount their opinions its not going to lead to healthy discussion.

Amen. I'll add that making an overgeneralized, unsupported statement about how other people are supposedly making overgeneralized, unsupported statements shows not just massive arrogance but a blind spot for irony.

[BruisedCrew]

Saying that Ron's philosophy makes more outs than Yuni's bat doesn't strike me as particularly clever, but I guess here that passes as insightful analysis that should not be questioned.

 

I think that, as a whole on this board, I've read more snarky, cliche statements against Roenicke than in support of him. I also think I've read more snarky, cliche statements against Roenicke than well-reasoned arguments about why he is such a terrible manager. But then again, maybe that's just selective memory because I am thoroughly entertained by it all.

 

In the initial feeling out period for RR, there was a lot of really great debate. Right around the time he started Kotsay in CF for a playoff game, the debate shifted as the RR supporters didn't have much to stand on besides the teams success or were just flat out ignored. It got to the point where there wasn't anything left to debate. One side hated the guy and could point to a lot of examples of poor decisions. One side liked the guy and would point to his record, or that players liked him, or that every manager makes bad decisions.

 

Now they stink and the RR supporters have changed to say people are criticizing him now because of the record. But beyond that change, everything else is more or less the same and has run its course.

 

One last point, BruisedCrew, I personally don't like when someone new comes on here and criticizes a majority of the posters with vast generalizations. If you want to debate something thats great, its what this place is for, but if you think you are better than the other posters here and discount their opinions its not going to lead to healthy discussion.

 

I don't know how I was criticizing the majority of posters or making it sound like I am better than other posters. I was disagreeing with the one who repeatedly calls Roenicke a clueless idiot, which seemed to me to be contrary to the Fan Etiquette document that I looked at before I signed up for the forum. According to that document, this wasn't the place for people who want to call the manager or anyone else worthless, but apparently it is. Maybe you should change the rules to alert potential new posters that, over the last 3 years, it has been established beyond debate that Roenicke is a worthless, clueless idiot, so don't try to question it.

[TooLiveBrew]

This discussion needs to be kept out of the ad hominem category.

 

That is all.

[xisxisxis]

Maybe we should just replace parts of the Fan Etiquette with this:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement1.svg/707px-Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement1.svg.png

 

 

And just say that we want to keep everything above the 5th line. As much as I love to criticize RR I am tired of every thread breaking down into a RR is an idiot "debate". Back to topic

 

 

While I love to blame all of the recent struggles by Segura on fatigue, he's been pretty much replacement level for months and the dreams that he might be that "special" 900 OPS shortstop runs counter to his past history and may be just a dream. He's young, cheap, and average or above so that isn't anything to complain about, but he probably ain't special.

[RightFieldCoder]

Responding To Tone @ xisxisxis:

This is the internet. The bottom layer of that pyramid needs to be at least 100x bigger than what you have listed.

[miggs721]

Sorry, but have to disagree with you, Segura is a damn special player and we could all see that in winter ball. He has been at .300 all year, 42 steals...sure he is fatiguing a bit, but he is one special talent!!!

[sveumrules]

Even with the late season slump Segura is in the top half dozen offensive shortstops in the game this year and is the youngest of the bunch so I guess it all depends on how you define "special".

 

Is he going to hit like Mike Trout at shortstop every month as he did in April? Of course not, but I'd wager that longterm he also isn't going to hit like Neifi Perez as he has lately. His true talent is likely somewhere in between. While I'd love it if he got 3 hits for every 10 at bats for 6 months in a row that just isn't how the game plays out.

[reillymcshane]

Since the all-star break, Segura is hitting .246 BA / .272 OBP / .312 SLG / .584 OPS

 

He's had virtually no power (1 triple, 1 HR) in that time frame. He's not stealing bases at a great rate (16 SB, 7 CS). And he's striking out at an increased rate (35k on 199 ABs compared to 48k on 372 ABs pre all-star break).

 

I think a long off season of rest would do the guy wonders. He seems to have just lost his legs. But let's hope his post all-star performance is an aberration.

[Roderick]

I think it was more of -> I assume he was hot and the pitchers hadn't figured out where to pitch him yet then it is that he is tired from playing winter ball and the season to date.

 

But I also concede that some of the dropoff is probably coming from playing so long in duration.

 

As I said in the sign him long-term now thread way, way back when - it is too early and give it at least a year.

 

Now at least we probably know what is the floor of performance we can get from Segura and I would be willing to now pay Segura long-term assuming that most years he will be around .285/.325/.425. If that doesn't work for him, then we can let it ride a few more years before we are even close to free agency.