Behold the Talents of Jean Segura

[torts]

lol at not being allowed to get a bit worn out just because someone's 23.

 

How come veteran players don't get the excuse "He's just tired"?

 

because

[Outlander]

lol at not being allowed to get a bit worn out just because someone's 23.

 

So, only young guys under 25 get worn out from the long season? How come veteran players don't get the excuse "He's just tired"?

 

I guess I was hoping for too much as I've been unable to watch games for 6 weeks, I figured this board might actually supply a bit of insight.

Read the post above you for veteran player example. Just because you don't like the reason doesn't mean it isn't a good one. Also Jean Segura is not a 900 OPS player so regression to the mean is expected.

[dlk9s]

So, only young guys under 25 get worn out from the long season? How come veteran players don't get the excuse "He's just tired"?

Sometimes they do. In a young guy's case, it's more likely that he could be worn out because he's not used to playing so many games with barely any rest. Don't forget they're living out of a suitcase, too.

 

I mean, hell, when I was 23, I worked as a consultant and traveled during the week. There were plenty of weekends when I was exhausted from a long week. Even when I didn't travel, I was often tired out and welcomed the weekend with open arms. And my work schedule was much, much easier than a professional athlete's.

 

I guess I was hoping for too much as I've been unable to watch games for 6 weeks, I figured this board might actually supply a bit of insight.

What insight? What do any of us know about why a guy isn't performing at a HOF level anymore? Best guesses are fatigue and regression. Good, old slumping could be an answer, too.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Just for comparison sake on these worries.

 

Troy Tulowitzki on June 9th had this season line: .351/.419/.654 in 234PAs 16HRs 51RBI

 

Since: .265/.346/.420 in 182PAs. 6HR 18RBI

 

Yes that's still a decent slash line for a SS but how bout one that calls Coors Field home? Keep in mind Tulo has 0! Triples...How many could Segura have driving balls in to the spacious OF of Coors? Much less Doubles. Or random HRs each month.

 

I'd think Segura's struggles since his early beginning to the season would at least equal the struggles Tulo has been having since his early tear. I'm not worried about Segura one bit.

 

 

Tulo is a terrible comparison though. He's got a proven track record of being an .850 or so hitter. A 2 month slump from Tulo does not mean that he's suddenly a .750 OPS hitter. He's got a long track record of being better than that that gives me no reason to believe he won't bounce back.

 

There's no track record for Segura for us to judge that his first half wasn't just a ridiculous hot streak, his true talent, or something in between. I don't think he's a .900 OPS hitter, and I don't think he's a .600 OPS hitter like he's been in the 2nd half either, but the truth is, we really don't know yet.

[MadScientist]

It's also likely that pitchers now have a better book on Segura than they did at the start of the season.

[reillymcshane]

Regarding Segura's second half slide, in a chat today, Haudricourt said that Segura is simply 'gassed'.

 

I hope he doesn't play winter ball and just recharges for next season.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/222889981.html

[trwi7]

Good thing Bianchi is on the bench doing nothing. They've run him into the ground after playing winter ball. Just give him a day or two off.

[Invader3K]

Good thing Bianchi is on the bench doing nothing. They've run him into the ground after playing winter ball. Just give him a day or two off.

 

It's so obvious. Segura looks visibly tired, everyone is talking about it, and they could play Bianchi... Hell, they can throw Betancourt in at shortstop if they want to, since the season is lost anyway. Keeping Segura healthy for next season should be the priority at this point.

[Roderick]

Keeping Segura healthy for next season should be the priority at this point.

 

Exactly. But he is still out there attempting steals. I would put the red light on him for the season. He has the title wrapped up anyway, doesn't he.

[JohnBriggs12]

At 23 it's far more likely that he's gassed mentally than physically. The baseball season is a grind. Guys learn over time how to deal with the length of a season. This is Segura's first experience of how much a grind it can be. Success early can add internal pressure too and that wears guys down even faster. Bianchi is a competent backup and he should be playing more. The worst thing is for Segura to go into the offseason on a huge downer.

[reillymcshane]

Good thing Bianchi is on the bench doing nothing. They've run him into the ground after playing winter ball. Just give him a day or two off.

 

It's so obvious. Segura looks visibly tired, everyone is talking about it, and they could play Bianchi... Hell, they can throw Betancourt in at shortstop if they want to, since the season is lost anyway. Keeping Segura healthy for next season should be the priority at this point.

I'd like to point out that it's not just Segura. There's no point in pushing someone like Kintzler, who's only two years removed from arm surgery.

 

If we were in a pennant race, sure you bring out the best guys. But if guys are showing fatigue - especially pitchers - give them extra rest. With so many guys in the bullpen, it just makes sense.

[TURBO]

Just another example of our manager not having a clue how to manage this team...

 

If RRR is here next year, my interest in this team is going to be at an all time low. Same thing day in and day out.

 

Complete incompetence.

[BruisedCrew]

Just another example of our manager not having a clue how to manage this team...

 

If RRR is here next year, my interest in this team is going to be at an all time low. Same thing day in and day out.

 

Complete incompetence.

 

Let's just say that I wholeheartedly disagree and leave it at that.

 

Sure, he makes some decisions that can be debated, like any manager. But, I don't know what people expect Roenicke to do with the material he has to work with.

[TURBO]

But, I don't know what people expect Roenicke to do with the material he has to work with.

 

That is a cop-out, but used by a lot of his supporters none the less...

 

It isn't the talent level that makes me question him on a daily basis, it is how he runs the "material he has to work with." He was incompetent when they went to the play-offs two years ago (they won in spite of his stupidity), and he is incompetent when the talent level is lacking. He is a terrible game manager, and I simply can not wait until Attanasio wises up and shows him the door.

[pitchleague]

But, I don't know what people expect Roenicke to do with the material he has to work with.

 

That is a cop-out, but used by a lot of his supporters none the less...

 

It isn't the talent level that makes me question him on a daily basis, it is how he runs the "material he has to work with." He was incompetent when they went to the play-offs two years ago (they won in spite of his stupidity), and he is incompetent when the talent level is lacking. He is a terrible game manager, and I simply can not wait until Attanasio wises up and shows him the door.

 

 

I don't see this happening any time soon.

[TURBO]

Sadly, I think you are right...

[BruisedCrew]

But, I don't know what people expect Roenicke to do with the material he has to work with.

 

That is a cop-out, but used by a lot of his supporters none the less...

 

It isn't the talent level that makes me question him on a daily basis, it is how he runs the "material he has to work with." He was incompetent when they went to the play-offs two years ago (they won in spite of his stupidity), and he is incompetent when the talent level is lacking. He is a terrible game manager, and I simply can not wait until Attanasio wises up and shows him the door.

 

This is a typical rant used by a lot of people who are classic second guessers.

 

When the team wins, it's despite the manager. When it loses, it's because of him.

[jerichoholicninja]

But, I don't know what people expect Roenicke to do with the material he has to work with.

 

That is a cop-out, but used by a lot of his supporters none the less...

 

It isn't the talent level that makes me question him on a daily basis, it is how he runs the "material he has to work with." He was incompetent when they went to the play-offs two years ago (they won in spite of his stupidity), and he is incompetent when the talent level is lacking. He is a terrible game manager, and I simply can not wait until Attanasio wises up and shows him the door.

 

This is a typical rant used by a lot of people who are classic second guessers.

 

When the team wins, it's despite the manager. When it loses, it's because of him.

 

Do you watch the games? Ron's "philosophy" makes more outs than Yuni's bat.

[BruisedCrew]

Do you watch the games? Ron's "philosophy" makes more outs than Yuni's bat.

 

Yes, I watch the games.

 

Do you watch any other teams play with the same critical eye?

 

When the Brewers aren't hitting, the same second guessers say the manager should do something to try to manufacture runs.

 

If all you do is criticize when things go wrong, but say nothing when things work out right, you can easily make any manager look like an idiot. That is the definition of "second guessing". When a team has close to the worst starting pitching in the league and an offense that is average at best, the team is going to lose a lot more games than it wins and no manager is going to change that. Otherwise, Bruce Bochy must have gone from being a genius to being a clueless idiot in record time.

[502 to Right]

This is Doug Melvin's fault too. It's his responsibility to step in and tell RR to get Segura regular rest. Like when Nationals GM Mike Rizzo shut down Stephen Strasburg last season or certain pitchers are put on an innings limit.

[TURBO]

Yes, I watch the games.

 

Do you watch any other teams play with the same critical eye?

 

When the Brewers aren't hitting, the same second guessers say the manager should do something to try to manufacture runs.

 

If all you do is criticize when things go wrong, but say nothing when things work out right, you can easily make any manager look like an idiot. That is the definition of "second guessing". When a team has close to the worst starting pitching in the league and an offense that is average at best, the team is going to lose a lot more games than it wins and no manager is going to change that. Otherwise, Bruce Bochy must have gone from being a genius to being a clueless idiot in record time.

 

 

This is a typical rant used by a lot of people who... back RRR no matter what the outcome. I don't buy any of the "you can make any manager look like an idiot" nonsense.

 

The guy is an idiot all on his own, it has nothing to do with 2nd guessing, hindsight being 20/20 or any of the other cliche words or phrases you want to come up with. He is a horrible manager and I can not wait until the day comes when he leaves Milwaukee.

[TURBO]

This is Doug Melvin's fault too. It's his responsibility to step in and tell RR to get Segura regular rest. Like when Nationals GM Mike Rizzo shut down Stephen Strasburg last season or certain pitchers are put on an innings limit.

 

Absolutely, there is no doubt that Melvin is at fault too, but if you have a manager that you have to micromanage to begin with, that tells me there is a problem with the manager. Doug can follow him right out the door for all I care, as long as RRR is leading the way!!!

[logan82]

Do you watch the games? Ron's "philosophy" makes more outs than Yuni's bat.

When the Brewers aren't hitting, the same second guessers say the manager should do something to try to manufacture runs.

On this board, no, they don't. It would be better if you addressed specific posts instead of throwing out blanket statements that are untrue.

 

If all you do is criticize when things go wrong, but say nothing when things work out right, you can easily make any manager look like an idiot.

I suggest you spend a little more time reading here getting to know the people a little better. Even when things work right that does not mean it was the correct decision. A decision is right or wrong independent of the results.

[BruisedCrew]

Do you watch the games? Ron's "philosophy" makes more outs than Yuni's bat.

When the Brewers aren't hitting, the same second guessers say the manager should do something to try to manufacture runs.

On this board, no, they don't. It would be better if you addressed specific posts instead of throwing out blanket statements that are untrue.

 

If all you do is criticize when things go wrong, but say nothing when things work out right, you can easily make any manager look like an idiot.

I suggest you spend a little more time reading here getting to know the people a little better. Even when things work right that does not mean it was the correct decision. A decision is right or wrong independent of the results.

 

I understand that too.

 

I've read enough on this board in the last month to see that it is no different than anywhere else. I can see countless posts about how Ron Roenicke is a clueless idiot in other places too. Saying that Ron's philosophy makes more outs than Yuni's bat doesn't strike me as particularly clever, but I guess here that passes as insightful analysis that should not be questioned.

 

It doesn't take long to see that this line from the Fan Etiquette rules is just a lot of fluff:

 

If you want a place to blow off steam by declaring players or team staff worthless when the Brewers play poorly, Brewerfan is not the forum for you.

 

In my book, calling the manager utterly incompetent and saying that the team won 96 games and a division title in 2011 despite his stupidity counts as declaring a member of the team's staff worthless.

 

I will withdraw my comments and move on.

[bani1717]

Saying that Ron's philosophy makes more outs than Yuni's bat doesn't strike me as particularly clever, but I guess here that passes as insightful analysis that should not be questioned.

 

I think that, as a whole on this board, I've read more snarky, cliche statements against Roenicke than in support of him. I also think I've read more snarky, cliche statements against Roenicke than well-reasoned arguments about why he is such a terrible manager. But then again, maybe that's just selective memory because I am thoroughly entertained by it all.