K-Rod....

[HiAndTight]

I never got the angst over re-signing K-Rod. It turns out it was a smart move by Melvin and will look even better if he's flipped for a nice prospect or something.

 

 

 

I never understood why people were so against it for the price until I was reminded of his latest domestic violence issue.

 

 

I just liked it because there was that clear upside that he could bounce back and be worth something in a trade. Kenny Lofton was never signed for much before the season, but contenders always wanted him near the trade deadline.

 

 

Frankly, I'd be looking at K-Rod, Ax, Henderson, Gomez, Aoki and then the obvious ones with Aram, and any other aging vets(including Lohse to any contender that may need pitching at the deadline).

 

 

Basically if you're not going to be part of the team in 3-4 years(the quickest I believe we can be a legit contender again) then you should be traded for someone who will. I hate putting Gomez on that list, but the return for him given his contract and his huge breakout would be HUGE...

[HiAndTight]

K-Rod is living in a dream world if he thinks he's going to get $2 million plus at this stage of the game. I don't see anyone giving him much more than the minimum, to be honest. If he's holding out for a certain dollar amount, he won't be back in baseball.

 

I think you might be underestimating our management team...

 

 

 

Yes, they signed a closer who's gone un-scored upon in 15 of his 16 outings and is likely to bring back at least something of value in a trade come the deadline.

 

 

Our management team hit it out of the park on this one...something nobody has done vs K-Rod.

[ebmackenzie]

About ARam...

 

Listening to the Braves announcers go on about Aramis' leadership role leads me to believe that with his salary and the limited amount of prospects that would be received, ARam stays a Brewer to maintain brand credibility and man the position with no other 3B prospect ready. The Braves guys went on about how ARam keeps on the kids to keep them focused and in line..

 

KRod...deal him and get him on a contender for single A prospects...

 

Yo...I am partial to keeping him at this point. I really am. Starting pitching is more important to me and I like the idea of Yo and Lohse being there as others come up.

[brewmann04]

You hhave to believe one of the Relievers are going to a contender.

[JohnBriggs12]

About ARam...

 

Listening to the Braves announcers go on about Aramis' leadership role leads me to believe that with his salary and the limited amount of prospects that would be received, ARam stays a Brewer to maintain brand credibility and man the position with no other 3B prospect ready. The Braves guys went on about how ARam keeps on the kids to keep them focused and in line..

 

KRod...deal him and get him on a contender for single A prospects...

 

Yo...I am partial to keeping him at this point. I really am. Starting pitching is more important to me and I like the idea of Yo and Lohse being there as others come up.

 

 

I've said all along that Ramirez' price tag is such that other than some salary relief, dealing him won't bring back anything of value. Everybody pointed to the Dodgers as a logical landing point, but they're as bad as the Brewers at this point, only in a worse division. I'm with you, I don't see a 3B on the horizon to replace A-Ram either. Francisco has failed in a couple places already. At best, he'd be a below average stop gap.

 

I'd listen to offers for Gallardo or Lohse, but I wouldn't pull the trigger unless the return is impossible to refuse. What's wrong with trying to get everyone healthy and making a push one more year with this group save maybe Weeks and one or two bullpen faces? Even Hart might be amenable to a short term deal. There is talent here, some of it will be here for multiple seasons and there are enough arms in the high minors that one or two could break through by 2014.

[HiAndTight]

K-Rod is living in a dream world if he thinks he's going to get $2 million plus at this stage of the game. I don't see anyone giving him much more than the minimum, to be honest. If he's holding out for a certain dollar amount, he won't be back in baseball.

 

I think you might be underestimating our management team...

 

 

And I think you might be underestimating the foresight that our management team has had over the past 6-7 years.

 

We gave him a conditional 2 million dollar contract hoping he could perform well enough to either help this team if we managed to get competitive or to turn around and flip if that was the case. If not, well, we took a flier on what basically amounted to what we would have spent on our 1st round draft pick this year.

 

And in return, we got the O's 4th best prospect, someone who can play 3rd, 2nd or 1st and whom the Brewers reportedly viewed as a 1st round talent, but had signability concerns, all for a guy who has had a extremely consistent career and then struggled last year inflating his ERA.

 

 

BA's take on the prospect coming our way;

 

Delmonico was the Orioles' sixth-round pick in 2011, quickly becoming one of the franchise's best young prospects. The 21-year-old has yet to reach the Double-A level, but has shown massive improvements in both facets of his game in the minors.

 

Playing for the Frederick Keys, Baltimore's High-A club, he's hit 13 home runs with 30 RBI and a .244/.351./.471 slash line. It's unclear where he'll play in the field at the big-league level, as he's been bouncing between third, first and designated hitter with Frederick. He has also played some second base despite being drafted as a catcher.

 

As FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal pointed out, the folks at Baseball America were mostly bullish on Delmonico's pro prospects going forward, ranking him fourth in the Orioles' system:“His ceiling is as a first-division corner infielder.”

 

 

So....is he worth the million dollars and change we paid for K-Rod? Looks like Melvin's made another brilliant move. The moves he's made in the last year are all looking pretty good right now. The Greinke trade is an overwhelming success even if Hellweg and Pena never do anything(and I believe both will). Gomez was signed at just the right time.

 

K-Rod's deal paid off handsomely.

 

 

Now he just needs to turn Axford, Aoki, Gallardo, Lohse and perhaps Henderson into more of the high ceiling prospects we're lacking.

 

I meant to say that I believe both Hellweg and Pena COULD contribute over the long run. Hellweg, Peralta and Nelson are essentially three pitchers with very similar ceilings(if you use the word literally, their best case scenario upside). All three have the stuff to be #1's. Even with Hellweg's terrible outings(which wouldn't look NEARLY as bad with some average HS defense behind him, he still has a heavy 98 MPH GB and a strikeout pitch, plus a developing 3rd pitch). If one turns into a top end #2 and the other two into GOOD 3 or 4's, that's a great start on jump starting this rebuilding effort.

[HiAndTight]

About ARam...

 

Listening to the Braves announcers go on about Aramis' leadership role leads me to believe that with his salary and the limited amount of prospects that would be received, ARam stays a Brewer to maintain brand credibility and man the position with no other 3B prospect ready. The Braves guys went on about how ARam keeps on the kids to keep them focused and in line..

 

KRod...deal him and get him on a contender for single A prospects...

 

Yo...I am partial to keeping him at this point. I really am. Starting pitching is more important to me and I like the idea of Yo and Lohse being there as others come up.

 

 

I've said all along that Ramirez' price tag is such that other than some salary relief, dealing him won't bring back anything of value. Everybody pointed to the Dodgers as a logical landing point, but they're as bad as the Brewers at this point, only in a worse division. I'm with you, I don't see a 3B on the horizon to replace A-Ram either. Francisco has failed in a couple places already. At best, he'd be a below average stop gap.

I'd listen to offers for Gallardo or Lohse, but I wouldn't pull the trigger unless the return is impossible to refuse. What's wrong with trying to get everyone healthy and making a push one more year with this group save maybe Weeks and one or two bullpen faces? Even Hart might be amenable to a short term deal. There is talent here, some of it will be here for multiple seasons and there are enough arms in the high minors that one or two could break through by 2014.

 

 

I could come up with a whole list of reasons, but I'll just list a couple.

 

Starting with the old adage that it's always better to trade a guy a year too early rather than a year too late;

 

1-Gallardo's struggles could continue and a half of a year of him pitching below his standards could turn into a full year and a half.

2-Lohse is pitching well right now, in demand and owed money that could be spent better elsewhere.

3-It'd take an absurdly flukish string of events for this team to bounce back by next year.

-Hart would have to come back healthy and be at least a .270/.320/.480 player or Gamel would have to do likewise.

-Braun would have to come back with everything that's happened and return to his MVP level status.

-Gomez would have to prove that he's actually one of the best players in the game(using WAR) next year as well.

-Segura would have to avoid a sophomore year slump.

-Our BP would have to duplicate it's performance this year and without any consistent and dominant relievers out there, that's not likely.

-Peralta would have to take the reigns and pitch like he has the last 3 starts.

-Weeks would have to bounce back....

 

 

And there are several other things that would have to go right in order for the Brewers to put themselves in a position to compete with the Braves/Nationals/Cardinals/Reds/Pirates/Dodgers/D-backs and possibly the Rockies and/or Giants, all teams with considerably brighter futures than the Brewers. That's not even mentioning the Phillies who I wouldn't write off just yet. They added one WC spot and it's a one game play in. So the only way I see them jumping up into the front of this group is if the trades they(hopefully) make work out like last years trades did and Nelson and others make the jump and perform exceptionally well.

 

 

 

I hate cliches, but I'll toss out a second one in here. The best pick in the draft is the last one, the second best pick in the draft is the 1st one.

 

Clinging to this delusion that they've got a chance to compete next year puts them IMO right where the Bucks are, a team that's going to have to spend and work to be a middle of the pack team and those teams can often times get stuck there for quite a while.

 

 

So honestly, what's so wrong with it? Well, it could not only set the franchise back ONE year in that we're waiting a year to trade these players, but a lot of these players could lose a LOT of trade value(like Corey Hart, or Aoki's value diminishing due to the fact he has one year left under team control) and it's one less year of getting those guys into our system, slashing our payroll and starting the inevitable rebuilding process that's needed to be a LEGITIMATE contender.

[chewy522]

About ARam...

 

1-Gallardo's struggles could continue and a half of a year of him pitching below his standards could turn into a full year and a half.

2-Lohse is pitching well right now, in demand and owed money that could be spent better elsewhere.

3-It'd take an absurdly flukish string of events for this team to bounce back by next year.

-Hart would have to come back healthy and be at least a .270/.320/.480 player or Gamel would have to do likewise.

-Braun would have to come back with everything that's happened and return to his MVP level status.

-Gomez would have to prove that he's actually one of the best players in the game(using WAR) next year as well.

-Segura would have to avoid a sophomore year slump.

-Our BP would have to duplicate it's performance this year and without any consistent and dominant relievers out there, that's not likely.

-Peralta would have to take the reigns and pitch like he has the last 3 starts.

-Weeks would have to bounce back....

 

I would not bet on the Brewers making the playoffs next year, but I am also not completely dismissing the idea. Under the 3rd scenario laid out above, we would not only be a playoff caliber team, we would have one the best lineups in all of baseball if Braun, Gomez, and Segura are all producing MVP type numbers. I don't like listing all the things that need to happen in order to compete. Obviously, it helps if guys repeat great performances, get healthy, and other guys "bounce back", but there are so many unknowns in the game.

 

To keep it simple, we have some great pieces in Braun (with possible decrease of numbers), Gomez, Lucroy, Segura and some other solid pieces (Lohse, Gallardo, Aoki, Peralta, Henderson) depending on how many we keep for next year. We have some holes to fill, but so does every other team. I wouldn't be upset either way if DM decides to sell off pieces for next year and do a more complete rebuild or if he tweaks the roster for a possible run next year. We are not in terrible shape. We have multiple all-stars on our team.