It's RONNICKY!

[TheCrew07]

...But I do hope the Brewers are eventually able to find someone with the tactical ability of Macha with even just an average amount of charisma.

 

I'll see that and raise you someone who embraces teaching the game the way minor league coaches/managers do. Someone who's willing to toss an inexperienced player out there and help him through his struggles, instead of penalizing him for not getting hits by sitting him on the bench. Young players require patience, and I think that was Yost's greatest asset... if somehow we could combine the best aspects of our last 3 full season managers into one guy we'd have nearly the perfect manager for a team like the Brewers.

[TooLiveBrew]

We shall call him... Yochacke

[Thurston Fluff]

Mackostenke.

[HOF4canrake]

In regards to Roenicke being "handcuffed" lately with his relievers, it's because he's mismanaged the bullpen from game 2 on. There is no way you should have an 8 man bullpen with a "long man" in Narveson (he just got hurt), Gorzelanny who can toss 2-3 if needed, Kintzler - Badenhop - Figaro who can all throw 2 innings, plus the other 3 and have a "beat up" bullpen as he put it.

 

Sure the starters were not going deep, but they weren't out in the 3rd either...Plus they had an off day after Game 3. The players need to perform - obviously - but Roenicke has made things far more difficult. Serious question...have his back problems caused some poor decision-making? Uncomfortable, medication, lack of sleep - these all affect people at work, even if he is managing a baseball club.

 

http://www.brewersmix.com/2013/04/roenicke-needs-to-shoulder-some-blame.html

[Ennder]

I haven't had a huge issue with his bullpen usage this year other than Axford being used in that last one. I do have a huge issue with how awful the bullpen actually is. I said it before the season and I'm sticking to it, we have one of the worst bullpens in baseball and it is going to cripple our chances to make a playoff run. It is hard to make great choices when none of the options are any good. If you merged the Royals or the Nats or the Braves and our bullpen I'd keep maybe 1 of our RP and dump the rest. So there are teams out there whose 6th best RP is better than our 2nd best, it is just sad.

[Baldkin]

Their bullpen was burnt out after 6 games when they had a day off in between. I guess I can't fathom any place where he hadn't mismanaged the pen to some extent.

 

Game #2: 6th inning over. Down 7-4. instead of going to his long man, he ends up using 3 relievers, including his long man.

Game #4. Starter pulled after 5. Down 6-1. Instead of going to his long man, he ends up using his long man for 1 inning only, then uses 2 more pitchers to finish the game.

[Thurston Fluff]

Baldkin you just proposed using the long man twice in a three game span. One of which when the team was only down three runs. If we go to the innings eating long man every time we have a three run deficit after the 6th inning how long will our long man last? Why not use your 8 man pen like you have an 8 man pen? Especially when you have it knowing you are going to be reducing it soon anyway? Why not find out who can do what when you have 13 pitchers?

[bjkrautk]

Their bullpen was burnt out after 6 games when they had a day off in between. I guess I can't fathom any place where he hadn't mismanaged the pen to some extent.

 

Game #2: 6th inning over. Down 7-4. instead of going to his long man, he ends up using 3 relievers, including his long man.

Game #4. Starter pulled after 5. Down 6-1. Instead of going to his long man, he ends up using his long man for 1 inning only, then uses 2 more pitchers to finish the game.

 

In Game #2, the score was tied 4-4 after 6; Gonzalez gave up the 3 runs in the 7th, which is why he took the loss.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=330402108

 

In Game #4, Narveson left the game with the finger sprain that has him sitting on the DL.

 

Start fathoming.

[Baldkin]

Baldkin you just proposed using the long man twice in a three game span. One of which when the team was only down three runs. If we go to the innings eating long man every time we have a three run deficit after the 6th inning how long will our long man last? Why not use your 8 man pen like you have an 8 man pen? Especially when you have it knowing you are going to be reducing it soon anyway? Why not find out who can do what when you have 13 pitchers?

 

Gonzalez came in and gave up 3 runs without getting an out. You lose 95% of those games when you're down 3 in the 6th. You're down 7-4. 9 outs to go. Go to your long man. Period. It doesn't matter who pitches, you limit the guys you use and keep your staff fresh. Again, if that was Narvy's job, you use him in those situations. If you're going to find out what you have, then you shouldn't end up without anyone to pitch 4 days later.

 

I must've misread when Narvy got hurt. I thought he was injured a couple days later. My fault.

[Thurston Fluff]

Gonzalez came in and gave up 3 runs without getting an out. You lose 95% of those games when you're down 3 in the 6th. You're down 7-4. 9 outs to go. Go to your long man. Period. It doesn't matter who pitches, you limit the guys you use and keep your staff fresh. Again, if that was Narvy's job, you use him in those situations. If you're going to find out what you have, then you shouldn't end up without anyone to pitch 4 days later.

 

Usually long men are used earlier than the 6th. That is why they are called long men. Mop up men are used when the game is out of hand. There is a difference. Who is the mop up man in our pen? At this point I'd say Axford. The other aspect that maybe you should take some time to consider is RRR has said the bullpen doesn't have defined roles yet. This is the snippet from the JSonline notes article today.

 

St. Louis - Nobody would like to see the relief pitchers in the Milwaukee Brewers' bullpen land in defined roles more than manager Ron Roenicke.

 

That sorting-out process can take weeks even under the best of circumstances, especially with new personnel. But when you change closers only a week into the season and other relievers are struggling as well, defining roles can be close to impossible.

 

"We're fresh," Roenicke said Friday afternoon, referring to the two off-days created by a rainout Wednesday in Chicago. "That's a good thing. Now, it's figuring out who to place where and when. We'll try to match up a little bit when we can."

 

Bullpens flow from the back to the front, so removing struggling John Axford as the closer created a trickle-down effect. Jim Henderson will close for now but other roles are to be determined, according to Roenicke.

 

"I'll try to use Ax in a place where it's not always on the line, try to get him right," said Roenicke. "I've said it all along. Guys, however they pitch, is how we're going to use them. If we find somebody that's really doing a great job, they're going to be seventh, eighth, ninth (innings).

 

"Coming in, I had figured that Ax would be nine and Henderson would be eight, and six/seven, we didn't really know. Now it has changed. Hopefully not for long."

 

How is he supposed to find out what roles players have if he doesn't use them to find out what roles they can fill? What better time to do that than early in the season when you have 13 pitchers on staff and plenty of off days sprinkled in?

[joepepsi]

Isn't bullpen management about the only tangible affect a manager has on a game?

It seems the exceptional managers have a knack for building a bench with youngsters and not just going with washed up vets.

[PeaveyFury]

Guys, it really doesn't change based on the manager. No one can be worse than Yost. Except Macha. No one can be worse than Macha. Except the current guy. But I'm sure the next guy will have to be better.

 

I get the frustration, and I'm there too... but aside from the few really consistently great managers, they're all the same, and almost certain to have either the same flaws as the last guy or new, more craptacular flaws.

[Ennder]

Isn't bullpen management about the only tangible affect a manager has on a game?

It seems the exceptional managers have a knack for building a bench with youngsters and not just going with washed up vets.

 

I'd say the complete opposite. Most of the best benches in baseball find a way to make use of retreads, depth guys or flawed prospects. Like the Yankees last year with Chavez and Jones or the As with all that depth. We have chosen pretty poorly for our depth guys though. You don't want a mediocre every day player, you want a player that you can slot in for certain jobs and get a lot of use of. A guy like Scott Hairston Jr.

[Thurston Fluff]

Isn't bullpen management about the only tangible affect a manager has on a game?

It seems the exceptional managers have a knack for building a bench with youngsters and not just going with washed up vets.

 

I think you hit on why bullpen and bench management get so much attention. Whether the overall effect on wins is really most effected by that aspect of a manager is debatable. I'm not even sure if it can be objectively assessed to begin with. I question whether management of them is a cut and dried, one way is best for all situations, thing.

[TURBO]

You don't want a mediocre every day player, you want a player that you can slot in for certain jobs and get a lot of use of. A guy like Scott Hairston Jr.

 

 

I can only assume you meant to say JERRY Hairston Jr...

[thebruce44]

Guys, it really doesn't change based on the manager. No one can be worse than Yost. Except Macha. No one can be worse than Macha. Except the current guy. But I'm sure the next guy will have to be better.

 

I get the frustration, and I'm there too... but aside from the few really consistently great managers, they're all the same, and almost certain to have either the same flaws as the last guy or new, more craptacular flaws.

 

I would have said the same thing until I saw a playoff lineup card that listed "Kotsay" under "CF."

 

http://johngress.com/wp-content/uploads//2011/10/600WJG13425__MG_3290.jpg

[Thurston Fluff]

Gonzalez came in and gave up 3 runs without getting an out. You lose 95% of those games when you're down 3 in the 6th. You're down 7-4. 9 outs to go. Go to your long man. Period.

 

I am not doing an I told you so but I think yesterday's game perfectly illustrates why this might not be as cut and dried as you thought. I don't know if that 95% was real or just used to illustrate your point but I think that sort of thing happens more than 5% of the time.

[pogokat]

I am not doing an I told you so but I think yesterday's game perfectly illustrates why this might not be as cut and dried as you thought. I don't know if that 95% was real or just used to illustrate your point but I think that sort of thing happens more than 5% of the time.

 

i think the reason is seems like it's more than 5% of the time is because the brewers blow three run leads late in games about 50% of the time...

 

the rest of baseball does it much less often

[Ennder]

You don't want a mediocre every day player, you want a player that you can slot in for certain jobs and get a lot of use of. A guy like Scott Hairston Jr.

 

 

I can only assume you meant to say JERRY Hairston Jr...

 

No I meant to say Scott Hairston with no Jr. A guy who can completely destroy one side pitching so is useful outside of just being a defensive replacement.